"I said about 99,9% in this game will not reach that ammount of CA"
So, 0.5% of the players in the game are BIS, but only 0.1% have 50% combat advantage damage. So how are there 0.4% of the players in the game with BIS gear but yet don't have BIS combat advantage damage? That was my point.
"90% of player can´t perma-AA at 2. tong boss."
In my experience, any DC with a sigil of the devoted can perma-AA the 2nd boss for the entire duration of the sigil. Experienced DCs that can't perma-AA through the paralysis effect will wait to pop the sigil until after avatar runs out and the lightning+water has showed up, that way they can spam AA all the way through the lightning effect. Inexperience doesn't mean they can't do it, it just means they are inexperienced. Also, in a burn group, if you cannot perma-AA, you are basically saying that they cannot use their daily once or twice.
An anointed champion building for damage is probably doing something wrong, or was forced to run anointed champion using divine oracle gear. I am mainly talking about a divine oracle here, since anointed champion just simply shouldn't be building much damage.
"I only say I can´t imagine how to reach 50% CA on a cleric"
Here let me explain it
15% (base)
8.7% (1200 CA utility stat)
13% (23 CHA)
=36.7%
Okay weird thing, the simulator I was using I think calculates the underdark boon incorrectly. According to the simulator it works like this:
(1 + 36.7%) * (1 + 10%) - 1 = 50.37%
but I thought it worked like this:
36.7% * (1 + 10%) = 40.37%
Either way, this number easily exceeds the 30% I used in my original example. I did get confirmation that it is the 2nd, so hehe oops, it's only 40% (45% tops)
"And if we talk about the small ammounts of player ingame that are able to run their DO as primary dps at tong, I´d say lucky one you are maybe the only player in this game that does."
Who in the world would run their cleric as primary damage dealer? Okay, maybe I tried it a few times for laughs, but seriously. The point isn't to run as primary damage dealer, the point is to stack more damage onto the enemies faster. As a divine oracle, doing damage is basically free, since you don't need much of any gear to use your buffs. From this stand-point any amount of damage you deal is effectively increasing your party's damage, since it is damage they wouldn't have dealt anyways.
By this you can start with what percentage of the party's damage is yours and then try to get an idea of how much damage a specific item increases the party's damage. If you deal 5% (you said 1/20th right?) of your primary damage dealer's damage, I think you probably forgot to slot damage spells, and paingiver would look like this:
1,200,000,000 DPS
440,000,000 OP tank
120,000,000 Some other support I won't name because I don't want to get into another argument about it
80,000,000 AC DC
60,000,000 DO DC
I honestly don't know how you could only deal 60 million damage in an entire ToNG run when a single daunting light should deal over a million each time you use it. But hey, if your divine oracle does less than the average anointed champion, we can use that as an example.
So a flask of potency adds 7.5% critical severity. Lets assume you only have 50% crit chance just so this adds as little damage as possible. That should be around 1% more damage for yourself. Even with you dealing basically 0 damage in a group, a flask of potency is worth 0.03% more damage for your party. If you are willing to sacrifice all of your party damage for some time AP gain, then why aren't you also sacrificing all of your AD for this tiny party buff?
In a more realistic party makeup, a divine oracle should be dealing damage closer to this:
1,000,000,000 DPS
350,000,000 DO DC
350,000,000 OP tank
120,000,000 Some other support I won't name because I don't want to get into another argument about it
80,000,000 AC DC
With 100% crit the flask of potency should add closer to 2.7% more damage, and because of your higher damage total the flask of potency is now a ~0.5% party buff. Is it worth it? Depends on your budget I guess. Is it worthless? Only if a ~0.5% party buff is also worthless.
My DC DO usually gets second or third place, it depends a lot on the group. If you have 1 main DPS + GF DPS, I get third (200 / 300kk) If you have 1 main DPS + Full Buff, I get second (300 / 400kk) I have on average 93% critical chance and 90% severity + T. Dread And as you said, it's weird a DC DO finish TonG with only 60kk damage hahahha
And as you said, it's weird a DC DO finish TonG with only 60kk damage hahahha
In my experience it's pretty common. If I do 160 mil as AC (granted I'm geared more for DO, but I usually end up as AC because of my overall stats and AP generation vs. the other DC), the DO is typically around 35 mil or less.
I think a lot of DC players give up on life when it comes to pushing their damage potential, and the others slot incorrect or unnecessary powers out of the mistaken belief that more healing and more mitigation are somehow always better.
@vorphied "I think a lot of DC players give up on life when it comes to pushing their damage potential, and the others slot incorrect or unnecessary powers out of the mistaken belief that more healing and more mitigation somehow always better."
Ye I could see that. I do also think that a lot of of people assume how their class should work based on the role, rather than trying to push the limits of their potential. And that's for every class.
Google and linked the runs that are spread in the interent. Simply decide yourself, if or if not all of these player are noobs and do the math yourself. The far more common build looks like this, and please do me one facvour and stop monitoing your trash dps Run ACT at bosses and tell me what your DO dealt , sounds more like you run with the wrong dps to me, sure it depends on that group allways. I get to a maybe 10% from dealt damage. If I run beside a hdps GF or GWF i get to a far worse result. I agree the dps could be more running a Dread and all archons, but I am a DC and my dps is not in the same league like real striker, so I focus on other things. The average DO is 3. to 4. spot in dps normally, side by side with the OP maybe.
@schietindebux first video: 30 minute run... because that proves nothing
2nd video: Okay, a decent run, however, as I mentioned before, divine oracle damage is free. That oracle would sacrifice nothing to do more damage. His group likely is under the belief that the DO should waste their time with an inferior weapon enchant compared to Dread. Free damage is free, it comes with no downsides. Could have been a 12 minute run.
3rd video: 58 minute run.... why are you even linking these? 4th video: 36 minute run... again... really?
My only argument has ever been that more damage means a faster run, not that a cleric will top paingiver. 1/20th is just simply unrealistic for a DPS DC built properly. Even a DPS using bronzewood (lol) should be able to scratch out 1/14th
I only linked the first that popped. Last tong run fast kill, that 13k DO 8 mio, 16k TR 500 mio at 2.+3 boss. 1:60, lol. Proves nothing, but shows the direction I piont at. >5 years of NWO, 1 out of several 1000's I remember, that felt like a bit of a striker. In the end the DC´s role is support, if you want to be a dps, run another class, that´s my opinion.
@schietindebux ... comparing a 13k DO you know nothing about to a 16k TR you know nothing about probably doesn't give enough information for you to actually get an idea of anything. The gear difference could be massive depending on what is causing the 3k item level gap. The oracle could also be using many completely pointless items with high item level.
There is a point here that you are right on though, and is very relevant. Divine oracle requires very little gear to pull off. So little, that even speed runners can get away with 12k and 13k oracles. Also, the difference between a 12k oracle and an 18k oracle in a burn group is likely very minimal, since the only thing you are really improving at that point is your small DPS.
Additionally, because it is so cheap to fund an oracle, and requires little effort to reach a usable state, and a lot of effort to reach a damage dealer state, most people will likely just pick up the cheapest passable gear that has any type of efficiency and run with it. Silvery enchants. Plaguefire enchant. Sprites. Whatever. This is cheaper and faster for getting an oracle to a usable state when compared to a DPS cleric. This doesn't mean it is the most powerful oracle. This means it's easy, cheap, and successful, which in turn makes it popular. Not the best.
If an 11k recovery DO were to look at this guys guide thingy and just take out the piece where a dread enchantment is best, and to slot damage dealing powers and azures, yeah they would be throwing away the passable usability they had for some lack-luster pointless damage.
It must be taken as a whole to have any value. You only start building damage once you can keep your buffs up, you only start building crit once you have max armor pen, you only start building combat advantage once you have max crit. As you get more and more of the pieces together it becomes more and more ridiculous what you can do. It doesn't happen overnight, and it's not "easy" to deal damage. It's "easy" to play an afk oracle and get carried through every dungeon, it really is. An afk oracle is more useful than some of the other classes in the game. That's why people do it.
"In the end the DC´s role is support, if you want to be a dps, run another class, that´s my opinion." In the end a cleric's role is what they designed it to do. Lets read some comments about the cleric written directly by the developers.
"Righteous Clerics call down the wrath of the gods to destroy all foes who bar the way. Their holy fire burns away all impurity."
If wizards and warlocks are allowed to be classified as support hybrids, great weapon fighters as tank hybrids, could you explain why clerics aren't allowed to be damage hybrids? Why give us the option to slot different gear if we aren't supposed to make creative decisions?
You support your allies your way, I support them this way. It's not like my oracle has fewer buffs, it just deals more damage.
... comparing a 13k DO you know nothing about to a 16k TR you know nothing about probably doesn't give enough information for you to actually get an idea of anything. The gear difference could be massive depending on what is causing the 3k item level gap. The oracle could also be using many completely pointless items with high item level.
There is a point here that you are right on though, and is very relevant. Divine oracle requires very little gear to pull off. So little, that even speed runners can get away with 12k and 13k oracles. Also, the difference between a 12k oracle and an 18k oracle in a burn group is likely very minimal, since the only thing you are really improving at that point is your small DPS.
Additionally, because it is so cheap to fund an oracle, and requires little effort to reach a usable state, and a lot of effort to reach a damage dealer state, most people will likely just pick up the cheapest passable gear that has any type of efficiency and run with it. Silvery enchants. Plaguefire enchant. Sprites. Whatever. This is cheaper and faster for getting an oracle to a usable state when compared to a DPS cleric. This doesn't mean it is the most powerful oracle. This means it's easy, cheap, and successful, which in turn makes it popular. Not the best.
If an 11k recovery DO were to look at this guys guide thingy and just take out the piece where a dread enchantment is best, and to slot damage dealing powers and azures, yeah they would be throwing away the passable usability they had for some lack-luster pointless damage.
It must be taken as a whole to have any value. You only start building damage once you can keep your buffs up, you only start building crit once you have max armor pen, you only start building combat advantage once you have max crit. As you get more and more of the pieces together it becomes more and more ridiculous what you can do. It doesn't happen overnight, and it's not "easy" to deal damage. It's "easy" to play an afk oracle and get carried through every dungeon, it really is. An afk oracle is more useful than some of the other classes in the game. That's why people do it.
"In the end the DC´s role is support, if you want to be a dps, run another class, that´s my opinion."
In the end a cleric's role is what they designed it to do. Lets read some comments about the cleric written directly by the developers.
"Righteous Clerics call down the wrath of the gods to destroy all foes who bar the way. Their holy fire burns away all impurity."
If wizards and warlocks are allowed to be classified as support hybrids, great weapon fighters as tank hybrids, could you explain why clerics aren't allowed to be damage hybrids? Why give us the option to slot different gear if we aren't supposed to make creative decisions?
You support your allies your way, I support them this way. It's not like my oracle has fewer buffs, it just deals more damage.
Amen to that
i have a DO loadout with Arp/crit capped and dragon heart build with mount bonus to ensure HG uptime blablabla...
For some reason only ppl who are desaproving this build IG or here are Clerics... I call it jalousy or ignorance, depending.
Every one who knows what such build can provide in term of buffs/debuffs regularity and additinal DPS are more than happy to run with us, regardless group and content.
Sounds harsh, but you can post 40 pages of comments, it does not cover at all the experience I do ingame, meeting countless DO´s and not one is doing what you talk of, significant damage on bosses, not at 17k IL and not at 13kIL. You guys pretend as if a dps DO is a common build and the standart in NWO. No it´s not, it´s liek a Kolibri in the antarctis, and by that I would not recommend anything you do by spending huge ammounts of AD for the "archon-family" only to get to the point that the effect is meaningless in a moderat buffergroup, running beside a well build and played striker-class. In the current meta a dps DO is from minor interest, things might change, DO nerfed and damage buffed, who knows. Wicked Duck 2000 mio, DO-DC 60 mio
My DO at 15.4 IL, 80% critchance, 92%severity, 85% RI, 70k power and about 12k recovery selfbuffed is far away from doing the focusdamage a good GF/SW/Hunter/TR/GWF can do in a buffer group. One point is the need of runnnig encounter that are ment to buff more than deal dps by sure. I´d really like to see your BIS DO beside a good GWF/GF/Hunter in a buffer group. You are up to prove me wrong.
@schietindebux I did say that the cheaper recovery DO is more popular. I already admitted that. But if you can already perma-cast every buff to its maximum at 13k item level, what left do you have to improve besides DPS? You are saying to stop improving your character and make a damage dealer class? Not happening.
"I would not recommend anything you do by spending huge ammounts of AD for the "archon-family" only to get to the point that the effect is meaningless in a moderat buffergroup" Is a 0.1% increase meaningless? If so, then why would anyone get rank 14 enchants? We do it because we have nothing left to upgrade. What about carrying lower groups?
"I´d really like to see your BIS DO beside a good GWF/GF/Hunter in a buffer group. You are up to prove me wrong." I tried, but I cannot post links.
Sounds harsh, but you can post 40 pages of comments, it does not cover at all the experience I do ingame, meating countless DO´s and not one is doing what you talk of, significant damage on bosses, not at 17k IL and not at 13kIL. You guys pretend as if a dps DO is a common build and the standart in NWO. No it´s not, it´s liek a Kolibri in the antarctis, and by that I would not recommend anything you do by spending huge ammounts of AD for the "archon-family" only to get to the point that the effect is meaningless in a moderat buffergroup, running beside a well build and played striker-class. In the current meta a dps DO is from minor interest, things might change, DO nerfed and damage buffed, who knows. Wicked Duck 2000 mio, DO-DC 60 mio
My DO at 15.4 IL, 80% critchance, 92%severity, 85% RI, 70k power and about 12k recovery selfbuffed is far away from doing the focusdamage a good GF/SW/Hunter/TR/GWF can do in a buffer group. One point is the need of runnnig encounter that are ment to buff more than deal dps by sure. I´d really like to see your BIS DO beside a good GWF/GF/Hunter in a buffer group. You are up to prove me wrong.
No one appears to be suggesting that DO is going to compete with a primary DPS; however, 60 mil in an end-game dungeon run is really low for 15k+ DO built to increase damage support. I do far more than that with DG/FF/Exalt/AA as AC.
Do you have to build damage stats to be effective in a group as DO? Unless you are carrying less-geared characters through T2 and lower dungeons, no. However, can you do your job and additionally contribute to your party by building some damage potential? Absolutely.
I also see a lot of talk about damage on bosses, which of course is important, but remember that a good portion of the dungeon is spent running around killing trash, and damage numbers on trash mobs are necessarily limited because they have far lower HP. In tong I'm typically #3, sometimes #2 in total kills as either AC (padded somewhat by Orcus adds) or DO.
I did say that the cheaper recovery DO is more popular. I already admitted that. But if you can already perma-cast every buff to its maximum at 13k item level, what left do you have to improve besides DPS? You are saying to stop improving your character and make a damage dealer class? Not happening.
"I would not recommend anything you do by spending huge ammounts of AD for the "archon-family" only to get to the point that the effect is meaningless in a moderat buffergroup"
Is a 0.1% increase meaningless? If so, then why would anyone get rank 14 enchants? We do it because we have nothing left to upgrade. What about carrying lower groups?
"I´d really like to see your BIS DO beside a good GWF/GF/Hunter in a buffer group. You are up to prove me wrong."
I tried, but I cannot post links.
At BiS and no way to go for , sure archons are a nice to have. But for the average player I would not think they are needed that much. Simply post the adress from that video, I am able to copy paste.
That's what I am doing and it won't let me send it. It is using a filter to detect links in my post, and throws errors saying I am not allowed to post links.
You cap out on DO buffs around 11k to 13k depending on if you went with the recovery build or not. This is very far from BIS
My DC is set to run as an AC/DC but I typically run as a DO in T9. I average around 200-300 million in damage on my DC. I could push out more damage on my DO side if I swapped out my companion enchantments over to Azures or Brutals for additional critical chance but I'm lazy and cheap (I can admit to it). Because of this, I do less damage than a DC that was specifically built as a DO to produce damage.
I thought about going full on DO and if I do I will probably swap all of my Radiants over to Black Ice on my offensive and get Brutals for my companion. Especially since WoL is being fixed. For now, I will leave my DC as is.
My DC is set to run as an AC/DC but I typically run as a DO in T9. I average around 200-300 million in damage on my DC. I could push out more damage on my DO side if I swapped out my companion enchantments over to Azures or Brutals for additional critical chance but I'm lazy and cheap (I can admit to it). Because of this, I do less damage than a DC that was specifically built as a DO to produce damage.
I thought about going full on DO and if I do I will probably swap all of my Radiants over to Black Ice on my offensive and get Brutals for my companion. Especially since WoL is being fixed. For now, I will leave my DC as is.
Frankly you do just fine as AC with Black Ice. Obviously a full Radiant AC geared to the same level will share a bit more power, but the difference isn't huge, and the additional damage helps close that small gap somewhat. With double offense slot rings I could reach or come very close to 100% crit, but I'm running between 81% and 87% at any given time as it is.
I prefer this kind of loadout because I find DO to be more versatile across the board, but I end up as AC 9 times out of 10 when I go to T9 because my cleric partners either build exclusively for DO or lack sufficient overall AP gain to keep up Anointed Army 100%.
My DC is set to run as an AC/DC but I typically run as a DO in T9. I average around 200-300 million in damage on my DC. I could push out more damage on my DO side if I swapped out my companion enchantments over to Azures or Brutals for additional critical chance but I'm lazy and cheap (I can admit to it). Because of this, I do less damage than a DC that was specifically built as a DO to produce damage.
I thought about going full on DO and if I do I will probably swap all of my Radiants over to Black Ice on my offensive and get Brutals for my companion. Especially since WoL is being fixed. For now, I will leave my DC as is.
Frankly you do just fine as AC with Black Ice. Obviously a full Radiant AC geared to the same level will share a bit more power, but the difference isn't huge, and the additional damage helps close that small gap somewhat. With double offense slot rings I could reach or come very close to 100% crit, but I'm running between 81% and 87% at any given time as it is.
I prefer this kind of loadout because I find DO to be more versatile across the board, but I end up as AC 9 times out of 10 when I go to T9 because my cleric partners either build exclusively for DO or lack sufficient overall AP gain to keep up Anointed Army 100%.
You don't need 20K recovery for almost 100% uptime on AA. Use Sunburst and it works great, especially on bosses. My friend who runs AC/DC who has 2/3 of my recovery uses that and he can keep AA up almost all the time because of Sunburst.
We have the tools to forgo some stats if needed, though when you tank you really hate seeing all those adds fly away from you. LOL...but if it gives me AA to protect me as a tank or to buff the group than go ahead and use it.
> @mebengalsfan#9264 said: > My DC is set to run as an AC/DC but I typically run as a DO in T9. I average around 200-300 million in damage on my DC. I could push out more damage on my DO side if I swapped out my companion enchantments over to Azures or Brutals for additional critical chance but I'm lazy and cheap (I can admit to it). Because of this, I do less damage than a DC that was specifically built as a DO to produce damage. > > I thought about going full on DO and if I do I will probably swap all of my Radiants over to Black Ice on my offensive and get Brutals for my companion. Especially since WoL is being fixed. For now, I will leave my DC as is. > > Frankly you do just fine as AC with Black Ice. Obviously a full Radiant AC geared to the same level will share a bit more power, but the difference isn't huge, and the additional damage helps close that small gap somewhat. With double offense slot rings I could reach or come very close to 100% crit, but I'm running between 81% and 87% at any given time as it is. > > I prefer this kind of loadout because I find DO to be more versatile across the board, but I end up as AC 9 times out of 10 when I go to T9 because my cleric partners either build exclusively for DO or lack sufficient overall AP gain to keep up Anointed Army 100%. > > > > You don't need 20K recovery for almost 100% uptime on AA. Use Sunburst and it works great, especially on bosses. My friend who runs AC/DC who has 2/3 of my recovery uses that and he can keep AA up almost all the time because of Sunburst. > > We have the tools to forgo some stats if needed, though when you tank you really hate seeing all those adds fly away from you. LOL...but if it gives me AA to protect me as a tank or to buff the group than go ahead and use it.
I run with only 11.3k or so base recovery, but with insignia set buffs and legendary AP gain from mount it’s easy to maintain AA.
I don’t think I could stand to use Sunburst except in a single-target situation with a CC-immune mob; it drives me absolutely nuts when trash is unnecessarily scattered.
> My DC is set to run as an AC/DC but I typically run as a DO in T9. I average around 200-300 million in damage on my DC. I could push out more damage on my DO side if I swapped out my companion enchantments over to Azures or Brutals for additional critical chance but I'm lazy and cheap (I can admit to it). Because of this, I do less damage than a DC that was specifically built as a DO to produce damage.
>
> I thought about going full on DO and if I do I will probably swap all of my Radiants over to Black Ice on my offensive and get Brutals for my companion. Especially since WoL is being fixed. For now, I will leave my DC as is.
>
> Frankly you do just fine as AC with Black Ice. Obviously a full Radiant AC geared to the same level will share a bit more power, but the difference isn't huge, and the additional damage helps close that small gap somewhat. With double offense slot rings I could reach or come very close to 100% crit, but I'm running between 81% and 87% at any given time as it is.
>
> I prefer this kind of loadout because I find DO to be more versatile across the board, but I end up as AC 9 times out of 10 when I go to T9 because my cleric partners either build exclusively for DO or lack sufficient overall AP gain to keep up Anointed Army 100%.
>
>
>
> You don't need 20K recovery for almost 100% uptime on AA. Use Sunburst and it works great, especially on bosses. My friend who runs AC/DC who has 2/3 of my recovery uses that and he can keep AA up almost all the time because of Sunburst.
>
> We have the tools to forgo some stats if needed, though when you tank you really hate seeing all those adds fly away from you. LOL...but if it gives me AA to protect me as a tank or to buff the group than go ahead and use it.
I run with only 11.3k or so base recovery, but with insignia set buffs and legendary AP gain from mount it’s easy to maintain AA.
I don’t think I could stand to use Sunburst except in a single-target situation with a CC-immune mob; it drives me absolutely nuts when trash is unnecessarily scattered.
Last boss and 2nd boss it does wonders due to the AP gain and not scattering the mobs. Orcus it is nice as does push the zombies away from the group so everyone can focus on Orcus. Other than on bosses, I believe BoH or Chains are a better way to go.
Ran T9 last night. I was the AC DC and we had a 15K DO. I ended up with around 200M in damage during the run. The DO had, gulp, under 20M in damage. He was with us the whole fight. I added said player to my ignore list.
He had zero in healing, barely any damage, barely used HG (I had to use HG because he was so bad), and was simply being carried. He was not the first DO I have seen behave like this in T9. The group allowed his behavior to last throughout the run. He even requested a 2nd run with me as the AC DC. I said NO WAY! You are a horrible DO and I cannot waste my time in T9 with such a bad player. He did not use PoD, BtS or FF. He simply did not do anything other than provide TI. Imagine if TI required him to do something to apply it, that buff probably would have been lost for the group as well.
Next time I'm forming my own group, this way if the DO or AC is not doing there job, I can remove them and get someone that is capable of being a DC in T9.
He did not use PoD, BtS or FF. He simply did not do anything other than provide TI. Imagine if TI required him to do something to apply it, that buff probably would have been lost for the group as well.
@darthtzarr I think someone read your section on "sit in the corner and provide TI" a little too literally...
There are now 3 types of DCs in game we have the DO/DC the AC/DC and the TI/DC . The TI/DC is kinda like the party having a 6th active companion slot See them all to often and i find myself leaving party quit often if invited . But also i see players joining as AC with 12/13 k itl and then PM me asking that i be AC. It is all getting kinda old and have stopped accepting many invites unless i know ahead of time what is going on .
I built my DC to play either role. The only thing I need to build up on my DO build is my Critical Strike. I have a plan on how to do this, but it will drop my recovery a bit. Still trying to figure out how much of an impact the change I plan to make will have to my AC build.
I am also working on ranking up two different artifacts ATM. Both will be used for my AC. Once both are mythical the issue with recovery won't be as bad for my AC build and my DO build would gain a bit more in damage as well especially once I update the enchantments on my companion to give me more critical strike.
Comments
If you have 1 main DPS + GF DPS, I get third (200 / 300kk)
If you have 1 main DPS + Full Buff, I get second (300 / 400kk)
I have on average 93% critical chance and 90% severity + T. Dread
And as you said, it's weird a DC DO finish TonG with only 60kk damage hahahha
I think a lot of DC players give up on life when it comes to pushing their damage potential, and the others slot incorrect or unnecessary powers out of the mistaken belief that more healing and more mitigation are somehow always better.
Contagion - Cleric
Testament - Wizard
Pestilence - Ranger
Dominion - Paladin
NIGHTSWATCH
"I think a lot of DC players give up on life when it comes to pushing their damage potential, and the others slot incorrect or unnecessary powers out of the mistaken belief that more healing and more mitigation somehow always better."
Ye I could see that. I do also think that a lot of of people assume how their class should work based on the role, rather than trying to push the limits of their potential. And that's for every class.
The far more common build looks like this, and please do me one facvour and stop monitoing your trash dps
Run ACT at bosses and tell me what your DO dealt , sounds more like you run with the wrong dps to me, sure it depends on that group allways. I get to a maybe 10% from dealt damage. If I run beside a hdps GF or GWF i get to a far worse result.
I agree the dps could be more running a Dread and all archons, but I am a DC and my dps is not in the same league like real striker, so I focus on other things.
The average DO is 3. to 4. spot in dps normally, side by side with the OP maybe.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=78-9IX0GLyE
https://youtube.com/watch?v=ASB4zmJ3Khk
https://youtube.com/watch?v=APaOdT8cpi4
https://youtube.com/watch?v=EbZBxwXDswk
Tell me where a dps-Do is asked for in these bufferruns, change meta and I agree with your arguments
100´s more
first video: 30 minute run... because that proves nothing
2nd video: Okay, a decent run, however, as I mentioned before, divine oracle damage is free. That oracle would sacrifice nothing to do more damage. His group likely is under the belief that the DO should waste their time with an inferior weapon enchant compared to Dread. Free damage is free, it comes with no downsides. Could have been a 12 minute run.
3rd video: 58 minute run.... why are you even linking these?
4th video: 36 minute run... again... really?
My only argument has ever been that more damage means a faster run, not that a cleric will top paingiver. 1/20th is just simply unrealistic for a DPS DC built properly. Even a DPS using bronzewood (lol) should be able to scratch out 1/14th
EDIT - ack can't post links...
Last tong run fast kill, that 13k DO 8 mio, 16k TR 500 mio at 2.+3 boss. 1:60, lol. Proves nothing, but shows the direction I piont at.
>5 years of NWO, 1 out of several 1000's I remember, that felt like a bit of a striker.
In the end the DC´s role is support, if you want to be a dps, run another class, that´s my opinion.
... comparing a 13k DO you know nothing about to a 16k TR you know nothing about probably doesn't give enough information for you to actually get an idea of anything. The gear difference could be massive depending on what is causing the 3k item level gap. The oracle could also be using many completely pointless items with high item level.
There is a point here that you are right on though, and is very relevant. Divine oracle requires very little gear to pull off. So little, that even speed runners can get away with 12k and 13k oracles. Also, the difference between a 12k oracle and an 18k oracle in a burn group is likely very minimal, since the only thing you are really improving at that point is your small DPS.
Additionally, because it is so cheap to fund an oracle, and requires little effort to reach a usable state, and a lot of effort to reach a damage dealer state, most people will likely just pick up the cheapest passable gear that has any type of efficiency and run with it. Silvery enchants. Plaguefire enchant. Sprites. Whatever. This is cheaper and faster for getting an oracle to a usable state when compared to a DPS cleric. This doesn't mean it is the most powerful oracle. This means it's easy, cheap, and successful, which in turn makes it popular. Not the best.
If an 11k recovery DO were to look at this guys guide thingy and just take out the piece where a dread enchantment is best, and to slot damage dealing powers and azures, yeah they would be throwing away the passable usability they had for some lack-luster pointless damage.
It must be taken as a whole to have any value. You only start building damage once you can keep your buffs up, you only start building crit once you have max armor pen, you only start building combat advantage once you have max crit. As you get more and more of the pieces together it becomes more and more ridiculous what you can do. It doesn't happen overnight, and it's not "easy" to deal damage. It's "easy" to play an afk oracle and get carried through every dungeon, it really is. An afk oracle is more useful than some of the other classes in the game. That's why people do it.
"In the end the DC´s role is support, if you want to be a dps, run another class, that´s my opinion."
In the end a cleric's role is what they designed it to do. Lets read some comments about the cleric written directly by the developers.
"Righteous Clerics call down the wrath of the gods to destroy all foes who bar the way. Their holy fire burns away all impurity."
If wizards and warlocks are allowed to be classified as support hybrids, great weapon fighters as tank hybrids, could you explain why clerics aren't allowed to be damage hybrids? Why give us the option to slot different gear if we aren't supposed to make creative decisions?
You support your allies your way, I support them this way. It's not like my oracle has fewer buffs, it just deals more damage.
Amen to that
i have a DO loadout with Arp/crit capped and dragon heart build with mount bonus to ensure HG uptime blablabla...
For some reason only ppl who are desaproving this build IG or here are Clerics...
I call it jalousy or ignorance, depending.
Every one who knows what such build can provide in term of buffs/debuffs regularity and additinal DPS are more than happy to run with us, regardless group and content.
Cheers !!!
You guys pretend as if a dps DO is a common build and the standart in NWO. No it´s not, it´s liek a Kolibri in the antarctis, and by that I would not recommend anything you do by spending huge ammounts of AD for the "archon-family" only to get to the point that the effect is meaningless in a moderat buffergroup, running beside a well build and played striker-class.
In the current meta a dps DO is from minor interest, things might change, DO nerfed and damage buffed, who knows.
Wicked Duck 2000 mio, DO-DC 60 mio
My DO at 15.4 IL, 80% critchance, 92%severity, 85% RI, 70k power and about 12k recovery selfbuffed is far away from doing the focusdamage a good GF/SW/Hunter/TR/GWF can do in a buffer group. One point is the need of runnnig encounter that are ment to buff more than deal dps by sure.
I´d really like to see your BIS DO beside a good GWF/GF/Hunter in a buffer group. You are up to prove me wrong.
I did say that the cheaper recovery DO is more popular. I already admitted that. But if you can already perma-cast every buff to its maximum at 13k item level, what left do you have to improve besides DPS? You are saying to stop improving your character and make a damage dealer class? Not happening.
"I would not recommend anything you do by spending huge ammounts of AD for the "archon-family" only to get to the point that the effect is meaningless in a moderat buffergroup"
Is a 0.1% increase meaningless? If so, then why would anyone get rank 14 enchants? We do it because we have nothing left to upgrade. What about carrying lower groups?
"I´d really like to see your BIS DO beside a good GWF/GF/Hunter in a buffer group. You are up to prove me wrong."
I tried, but I cannot post links.
Do you have to build damage stats to be effective in a group as DO? Unless you are carrying less-geared characters through T2 and lower dungeons, no. However, can you do your job and additionally contribute to your party by building some damage potential? Absolutely.
I also see a lot of talk about damage on bosses, which of course is important, but remember that a good portion of the dungeon is spent running around killing trash, and damage numbers on trash mobs are necessarily limited because they have far lower HP. In tong I'm typically #3, sometimes #2 in total kills as either AC (padded somewhat by Orcus adds) or DO.
Contagion - Cleric
Testament - Wizard
Pestilence - Ranger
Dominion - Paladin
NIGHTSWATCH
Simply post the adress from that video, I am able to copy paste.
You cap out on DO buffs around 11k to 13k depending on if you went with the recovery build or not. This is very far from BIS
I thought about going full on DO and if I do I will probably swap all of my Radiants over to Black Ice on my offensive and get Brutals for my companion. Especially since WoL is being fixed. For now, I will leave my DC as is.
I prefer this kind of loadout because I find DO to be more versatile across the board, but I end up as AC 9 times out of 10 when I go to T9 because my cleric partners either build exclusively for DO or lack sufficient overall AP gain to keep up Anointed Army 100%.
Contagion - Cleric
Testament - Wizard
Pestilence - Ranger
Dominion - Paladin
NIGHTSWATCH
We have the tools to forgo some stats if needed, though when you tank you really hate seeing all those adds fly away from you. LOL...but if it gives me AA to protect me as a tank or to buff the group than go ahead and use it.
> My DC is set to run as an AC/DC but I typically run as a DO in T9. I average around 200-300 million in damage on my DC. I could push out more damage on my DO side if I swapped out my companion enchantments over to Azures or Brutals for additional critical chance but I'm lazy and cheap (I can admit to it). Because of this, I do less damage than a DC that was specifically built as a DO to produce damage.
>
> I thought about going full on DO and if I do I will probably swap all of my Radiants over to Black Ice on my offensive and get Brutals for my companion. Especially since WoL is being fixed. For now, I will leave my DC as is.
>
> Frankly you do just fine as AC with Black Ice. Obviously a full Radiant AC geared to the same level will share a bit more power, but the difference isn't huge, and the additional damage helps close that small gap somewhat. With double offense slot rings I could reach or come very close to 100% crit, but I'm running between 81% and 87% at any given time as it is.
>
> I prefer this kind of loadout because I find DO to be more versatile across the board, but I end up as AC 9 times out of 10 when I go to T9 because my cleric partners either build exclusively for DO or lack sufficient overall AP gain to keep up Anointed Army 100%.
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>
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> You don't need 20K recovery for almost 100% uptime on AA. Use Sunburst and it works great, especially on bosses. My friend who runs AC/DC who has 2/3 of my recovery uses that and he can keep AA up almost all the time because of Sunburst.
>
> We have the tools to forgo some stats if needed, though when you tank you really hate seeing all those adds fly away from you. LOL...but if it gives me AA to protect me as a tank or to buff the group than go ahead and use it.
I run with only 11.3k or so base recovery, but with insignia set buffs and legendary AP gain from mount it’s easy to maintain AA.
I don’t think I could stand to use Sunburst except in a single-target situation with a CC-immune mob; it drives me absolutely nuts when trash is unnecessarily scattered.
Contagion - Cleric
Testament - Wizard
Pestilence - Ranger
Dominion - Paladin
NIGHTSWATCH
He had zero in healing, barely any damage, barely used HG (I had to use HG because he was so bad), and was simply being carried. He was not the first DO I have seen behave like this in T9. The group allowed his behavior to last throughout the run. He even requested a 2nd run with me as the AC DC. I said NO WAY! You are a horrible DO and I cannot waste my time in T9 with such a bad player. He did not use PoD, BtS or FF. He simply did not do anything other than provide TI. Imagine if TI required him to do something to apply it, that buff probably would have been lost for the group as well.
Next time I'm forming my own group, this way if the DO or AC is not doing there job, I can remove them and get someone that is capable of being a DC in T9.
I am also working on ranking up two different artifacts ATM. Both will be used for my AC. Once both are mythical the issue with recovery won't be as bad for my AC build and my DO build would gain a bit more in damage as well especially once I update the enchantments on my companion to give me more critical strike.