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CW Buffer Builds - Which one do you prefer and why?

mebengalsfan#9264 mebengalsfan Member Posts: 3,169 Arc User
When I started off my CW I made him a DPS. I am now at a point where being a DPS is boring. I have tinkered a bit with being a Renegade MoF but many of the benefits that a Renegade offers, other than Chaotic Fury, can be had other ways and most end game groups don't need most of those benefits.

Having three loadouts I created myself an Oppressor build and have been running as an Oppressor/Renegade MoF CW. The personals I am using are Swath of Destruction and Critical Conflagration. With 100% crit chance I can keep smolder up for the 20% damage buff and the feats Icy Vein, Frigid Winds and Control Momentum I am able to provide the group additional buffs.

Overall when I compare the two builds: Oppressor/Renegade to the Renegade/Oppressor I see both as viable end game CW buffers but I like how easy it is to maintain the damage bonus from Control Momentum vs. relying on Chaos Magic to proc Chaotic Fury.

If I ever decide to go full on buffer I will eventually swap out Critical Conflag to Combustive Action for the additional debuff it offers, but that will require some serious investment on my end to achieve a high enough recovery to spam dailies, at this point the build I run now it is a decent DPS but moreso of a buffer.

Another thought I had is modifying my Thaum/Renegade build and use Critical Conflag with Swath of Destruction over Chilling Presence. I know I will take a DPS lose but it would boost the group DPS.

I like how MoF gives me options here. What are other CW Buffers running and what made you create your CW buffer?



Comments

  • metalicum1metalicum1 Member Posts: 200 Arc User
    I prefer Renegade top + opp, high crit high recvoery ( both about 30k, recovery as high to be comfortable with CA debuff uptime without using something like Black Dragon for Artificer proc), CA + Swath, RoE on mastery. It does everything I need for support. Ch. Fury for 30% damage, Nightmare for constant CA, and loads of debuff.

    The reason I like to go high crit is because I can just switch from Swath to CP and carry any group through all content except the absolute endgame (MSPC, To9G). Crit has much better returns than power in this case. But that's more of a flavor thing.

    http://nwcalc.com/index.html#/cw?b=1oa5:k6rwk5:8dep:5tb7d,1fm0i23:150xc00:1000000:1z05nc1&h=0&p=mof&o=0
    Aris Meyde CW MoF Renegade

    [PS4] Alliance - House Stargaryen
  • assidisassidis Member Posts: 11 Arc User

    I prefer Renegade top + opp, high crit high recvoery ( both about 30k, recovery as high to be comfortable with CA debuff uptime without using something like Black Dragon for Artificer proc), CA + Swath, RoE on mastery. It does everything I need for support. Ch. Fury for 30% damage, Nightmare for constant CA, and loads of debuff.

    The reason I like to go high crit is because I can just switch from Swath to CP and carry any group through all content except the absolute endgame (MSPC, To9G). Crit has much better returns than power in this case. But that's more of a flavor thing.

    http://nwcalc.com/index.html#/cw?b=1oa5:k6rwk5:8dep:5tb7d,1fm0i23:150xc00:1000000:1z05nc1&h=0&p=mof&o=0

    you say that you play as a support, but judging by the nwcalc you did not take prestigidation, but took the phantasmal destruction.
    3 on abbys and 2 on nightmare... why?


  • metalicum1metalicum1 Member Posts: 200 Arc User
    assidis said:

    I prefer Renegade top + opp, high crit high recvoery ( both about 30k, recovery as high to be comfortable with CA debuff uptime without using something like Black Dragon for Artificer proc), CA + Swath, RoE on mastery. It does everything I need for support. Ch. Fury for 30% damage, Nightmare for constant CA, and loads of debuff.

    The reason I like to go high crit is because I can just switch from Swath to CP and carry any group through all content except the absolute endgame (MSPC, To9G). Crit has much better returns than power in this case. But that's more of a flavor thing.

    http://nwcalc.com/index.html#/cw?b=1oa5:k6rwk5:8dep:5tb7d,1fm0i23:150xc00:1000000:1z05nc1&h=0&p=mof&o=0

    you say that you play as a support, but judging by the nwcalc you did not take prestigidation, but took the phantasmal destruction.
    3 on abbys and 2 on nightmare... why?


    Honestly, I value 30% single target dmg more than the bonus everyone gets from Pres. the bonus from pres is really just about power - I presume all other stats like crit, DR, arp, etc capped, and the bonus is really not that great. It's definitely not a mistake in my book to take 3/3 Pres instead of Focused wiz, but I would recommend 30% single target. Contrary to popular believe, this build is not 0 damage build, you can do quite something with it. (quite something meaning about 30-35% of end game HR or GWF build, which is a lot in my book).

    As if for Nightmare wiz the reason is simple - you don't need more because you crit a lot. 2/5 is enough to have all the uptime you will ever need on it. 3/5 is totally safe, 5/5 is a giant overkill.
    Abyss of chaos is mainly for the proc, not because of the dmg.
    Phantasmal destruction is great - 15% crit severity is better than the other options. because I have very low crit severity, the bonus is actually quite substantial.
    Aris Meyde CW MoF Renegade

    [PS4] Alliance - House Stargaryen
  • trzebiat#2067 trzebiat Member Posts: 372 Arc User
    I don't run MoF often now, but I always liked more hybrid DPS/debuff, the one I ran the most time was Renegade/Thaumaturge on full DPS gear like SS Thaum. Running CC+SoD on trash and CP+SoD on bosses. I really enjoyed running it for raids like SVA or big heroics, 5-man content with tank, DC and 2 other DPS or tank/DC and 3 DPS.
    http://nwcalc.com/index.html#/cw?b=1oa5:k6rwk5:8dep:5tb7d,19i3ie3:1000000:1z00u00:1z00zk1&h=0&p=mof&o=0
    (Human so 3 points to max Learned Spellcaster)

    I tried running in T9G Thaumaturge/Oppressor on trash with CP+CA and Rubellite instead of INT set, and Thaumaturge/Renegade on bosses with CP+SoD and INT set. Worked nice when running with 1 tank, 2 DC and 1 other DPS.
    http://nwcalc.com/index.html#/cw?b=1oa5:k6rwk5:8dep:5tb7d,19i3ie3:150xc00:1z05u0v:1000000&h=0&p=mof&o=0

    I changed some things in my Renegade/Oppressor loadout with high recovery I used to run CA+SoD but I haven't got a chance to properly test it.
  • metalicum1metalicum1 Member Posts: 200 Arc User
    obekpl said:

    I prefer Renegade top + opp, high crit high recvoery ( both about 30k, recovery as high to be comfortable with CA debuff uptime without using something like Black Dragon for Artificer proc), CA + Swath, RoE on mastery. It does everything I need for support. Ch. Fury for 30% damage, Nightmare for constant CA, and loads of debuff.

    The reason I like to go high crit is because I can just switch from Swath to CP and carry any group through all content except the absolute endgame (MSPC, To9G). Crit has much better returns than power in this case. But that's more of a flavor thing.

    http://nwcalc.com/index.html#/cw?b=1oa5:k6rwk5:8dep:5tb7d,1fm0i23:150xc00:1000000:1z05nc1&h=0&p=mof&o=0

    is there any reson to take nigtmare wizardy since almost every class has got advantage from their feats/powers etc. For example GWF has got advantage when he is unstopable/ GF has advantage when he marks enemy, tr in stealth, you have advantage when you will stun/freeze enemies. Pointless skill in my opinion.
    It's really only 2 points, you are not giving up much, and its a nice utility to have, quality of life improvement. It's not its necessary or anything, but for a support build I find it useful. Not essential, but certainly not pointless, as not everyone all the time has CA (I don't think SW, OP have any easy way to get CA, or at least are not using it). Not that there are many other amazing feats to choose from in a Renegade path, it needs rework I'm saying it all the time. Though I still choose the path for support build because of Chaos Magic (Fury is pretty amazing, the uptime is actually more than 33% due to multiproc)

    Aris Meyde CW MoF Renegade

    [PS4] Alliance - House Stargaryen
  • mebengalsfan#9264 mebengalsfan Member Posts: 3,169 Arc User
    edited November 2017
    Here is what I am currently running on my CW when I run as an Oppressor/Renegade. With Steal Time on Mastery and using Icy Terrain I am able to keep Control Momentum up 100% of the time with proper timing. My at wills I use is Chilling Cloud. As stated in my initial post I use Critical Conflag and Swath of Destruction as my personals. Dailies are Oppressor Force and Icy Knife. My other two encounters are Disintegrate and Ray of Enfeeblement.

    nwcalc.com/index.html#/cw?b=1oa5:k6rwk5:8dep:5tb7d,1f23icf:150zu0v:1000000:1z00u00&h=0&p=mof&o=0

    Here are my feat points for my Renegade build. My renegade build is designed more for using dailies as I use combustive action and swath as my personal when I do run this build. I also find this build works the best when running with groups that are near minimum IL to get into content. The extra debuffing from combustive action along with Swath 20% damage buff both really boost the group DPS.

    On Mastery I use Fanning the Flame. Other encounters I use are Steal Time, Icy Terrain, and Ray of Enfeeblement.

    Dailies are Immolation and Icy Knife.

    I may have to adjust my Renegade a bit more as I am thinking of getting get Spell Twisting vs. what I have now from the Oppressor Paragon feat tree.

    nwcalc.com/index.html#/cw?b=1oa5:k6rwk5:8dep:5tb7d,1fm300f:150wi00:1000000:1z05uu1&h=0&p=mof&o=0


    These are my buff builds today. I may adjust them in the future as I start to change out my gear. I may even forgo my DPS CW builds and go full on buffing with all my characters.

    Here are my feats for my CW DPS build. I may start using this build as a semi buffer and simply swap out CP for SoD for the added 20% damage buff to my group. The other thing with this build is I would be pulling out more damage vs. my other builds due to being a Thuam/Renegade.

    nwcalc.com/index.html#/cw?b=1oa5:k6rwk5:8dep:5tb7d,19i3ie3:1000000:1z05u0v:1z00u00&h=0&p=mof&o=0
  • trzebiat#2067 trzebiat Member Posts: 372 Arc User
    I did a respec to my Renegade/Oppressor loadout and set it like this:

    http://nwcalc.com/index.html#/cw?b=1oa5:k6rwk5:8dep:5tb7d,1on0i23:150xc00:1000000:1y09ha1&h=0&p=mof&o=0
    (Human so maxed Learned Spellcaster).

    Buffed stats - capped Arpen, around 48k Power, 23-24k Recovery (enough for 2x RoE), 60-65% Crit. Rubellite set and Black Dragon as main.

    RoE on mastery, IT, CoI, ST/Dis. Oppressive Force and Icy Knife for dailies. CA+SoD passives.

    Went to test in T1 and T2 from pug with a friend on GWF and we ended getting into MSPC from pug, got good 16k DC (what he was doing there is a mystery), some lower level CW (with bondings in augment lol) and some troll OP tank (with just R7-8 bondings). Trash for some reason went smoother than sometimes with 2 DCs. Second boss without DC and the other CW from 50% HP, no issues. Spent about 15 minutes before last boss because tank went to aggro everything and kept dying and releasing constantly at campfire rather than wait for mobs to reset, and when we finally killed mobs he went back and spent literally 10 minutes looking for and fighting with any mobs that spawn there instead of getting into the circle. And after getting in he intentionally killed himself and we had to do the whole 3rd boss without tank, and last phase after one shot also without DC. All of this with clock ticking, finished with less than 1 minute left to maintenance. I've never had more ridiculous run before.

    While GWF did 820 mil damage in the run, I had about 390 mil, so not that bad I think. Really fun to play in pug.
  • dupeksdupeks Member Posts: 1,789 Arc User
    edited November 2017
    Here is my hot take on CW support: after debuffs got diminishing returns, all of a sudden utility for debuffing took a huge hit.

    Taking a realistic view of what MoF CW support offers for an end-game party, I would argue that the best CW offerings relate to applying debuffs quickly and having uncapped OF keep mobs/adds on lock. If you take my view, you look towards a high recovery / high crit daily spammer build similar to what has been described above.

    For full support Rene, I like Rene / Thaum smolder stacking configuration (swath, CA) rotation: OF -> RoE or FtF -> TAB(CoI) -> disintegrate. For bosses or if smolder stacking is impaired by 2nd CW, swap RoE to TAB and have CoI off tab. I don't run Icy Veins because it interferes with smolder stacking. This also frees you up to grab spell twisting, resulting in fast rotation for AP building.

    For dps support hybrid, I like Thaum / Opp with Icy Veins for sweeping trash (CP, CA) rotation: OF -> RoE or IT -> TAB(CoI) -> disintegrate. This is also what I use for soloing. For bosses, I might change to Thaum / Rene loadout for Abyss damage, and again swap RoE to TAB.

    You can also get a black dragon heart and learn to miss with it in order to have flexibility for added debuff / reliably proc'ing Artificer's Persuasion.
  • metalicum1metalicum1 Member Posts: 200 Arc User
    dupeks said:

    Here is my hot take on CW support: after debuffs got diminishing returns, all of a sudden utility for debuffing took a huge hit.


    For full support Rene, I like Rene / Thaum smolder stacking configuration (swath, CA) rotation: OF -> RoE or FtF -> TAB(CoI) -> disintegrate. For bosses or if smolder stacking is impaired by 2nd CW, swap RoE to TAB and have CoI off tab. I don't run Icy Veins because it interferes with smolder stacking. This also frees you up to grab spell twisting, resulting in fast rotation for AP building.

    Smolder stacking is gone in next update or is already gone (it's not on consoles, don't know about PC, but I know it's gonna be gone. it will be "fixed".
    Also, in my view you need Combustive Action duration buff in oppressor tree, cuz 6 seconds daily is really not easy to get.
    (Oppressive Force prolonging duration of CA debuff is not a thing as far as our tests showed. That has been fixed as well or maybe was never a thing I dunno.)
    Aris Meyde CW MoF Renegade

    [PS4] Alliance - House Stargaryen
  • dupeksdupeks Member Posts: 1,789 Arc User

    dupeks said:

    Here is my hot take on CW support: after debuffs got diminishing returns, all of a sudden utility for debuffing took a huge hit.


    For full support Rene, I like Rene / Thaum smolder stacking configuration (swath, CA) rotation: OF -> RoE or FtF -> TAB(CoI) -> disintegrate. For bosses or if smolder stacking is impaired by 2nd CW, swap RoE to TAB and have CoI off tab. I don't run Icy Veins because it interferes with smolder stacking. This also frees you up to grab spell twisting, resulting in fast rotation for AP building.

    Smolder stacking is gone in next update or is already gone (it's not on consoles, don't know about PC, but I know it's gonna be gone. it will be "fixed".
    Also, in my view you need Combustive Action duration buff in oppressor tree, cuz 6 seconds daily is really not easy to get.
    (Oppressive Force prolonging duration of CA debuff is not a thing as far as our tests showed. That has been fixed as well or maybe was never a thing I dunno.)
    Those are fair concerns/opinions.

    On preview I don't think smolder stacking was completely removed, but who knows if they'll take another pass at it. I like it because it actually requires some timing / marginal skill, and with the right combo you can apply the debuff to large groups of mobs really quickly.

    I haven't retested CA duration in a while, it's possible they've changed it to no longer be extended by OF ticks. For mobs 6sec is more than enough. For bosses, it's a limitation certainly. I guess that gives another reason for going Rene / Opp.

    To be honest, ever since they introduced diminishing returns, our debuff magnitude is just lackluster compared to the benefits that buffs can provide. Game is currently in an imbalanced state, but we'll see how long that persists. I guess we shouldn't complain too much we had some golden years behind us (HV FTW).
  • mebengalsfan#9264 mebengalsfan Member Posts: 3,169 Arc User
    dupeks said:

    dupeks said:

    Here is my hot take on CW support: after debuffs got diminishing returns, all of a sudden utility for debuffing took a huge hit.


    For full support Rene, I like Rene / Thaum smolder stacking configuration (swath, CA) rotation: OF -> RoE or FtF -> TAB(CoI) -> disintegrate. For bosses or if smolder stacking is impaired by 2nd CW, swap RoE to TAB and have CoI off tab. I don't run Icy Veins because it interferes with smolder stacking. This also frees you up to grab spell twisting, resulting in fast rotation for AP building.

    Smolder stacking is gone in next update or is already gone (it's not on consoles, don't know about PC, but I know it's gonna be gone. it will be "fixed".
    Also, in my view you need Combustive Action duration buff in oppressor tree, cuz 6 seconds daily is really not easy to get.
    (Oppressive Force prolonging duration of CA debuff is not a thing as far as our tests showed. That has been fixed as well or maybe was never a thing I dunno.)
    Those are fair concerns/opinions.

    On preview I don't think smolder stacking was completely removed, but who knows if they'll take another pass at it. I like it because it actually requires some timing / marginal skill, and with the right combo you can apply the debuff to large groups of mobs really quickly.

    I haven't retested CA duration in a while, it's possible they've changed it to no longer be extended by OF ticks. For mobs 6sec is more than enough. For bosses, it's a limitation certainly. I guess that gives another reason for going Rene / Opp.

    To be honest, ever since they introduced diminishing returns, our debuff magnitude is just lackluster compared to the benefits that buffs can provide. Game is currently in an imbalanced state, but we'll see how long that persists. I guess we shouldn't complain too much we had some golden years behind us (HV FTW).
    I have to say this about the MoF buff build. I was with a LoL group where the DC and GF had no idea how to play their class. We were on Lostmauth and my buff build assisted in getting the content done due to the buff and debuff a MoF offers.

    I know in Meta groups a MoF may not be needed but when you PUG a MoF build can make the difference in completing content.
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