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Mod12b HR pvp.

jonkocajonkoca Posts: 2,497Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
edited November 2017 in The Wilds
So, I don't know about you, but my combat HR is now officially just rubbish in PvP. With initial cc now being stronger somehow, than it was last mod, despite the new immunity stacks, and the healing depression on top of that, I'm usually dead.

Was thinking of making a pvp archer load out with falcons, just to see if I can one shot people from a distance. Anyone play a pvp archer..? How much arpen is necessary etc..?

Rotation wise I was thinking ambush, marauders and longstriders, with aimed shot and rapid. Ghost and disruptive for dailies. Will probably sit on pillars a lot lol.
No idea what my toon is now.

Comments

  • nerfcc#8605 nerfcc Posts: 35Member Arc User
    I play on console and I'm disappointed to hear my combat might struggle in 12b. Do you mind if I ask what defensive enchant your using and what defensive enchants your using? Also what your deflection % is at.
  • marnivalmarnival Posts: 1,432Member Arc User
    edited November 2017

    I play on console and I'm disappointed to hear my combat might struggle in 12b. Do you mind if I ask what defensive enchant your using and what defensive enchants your using? Also what your deflection % is at.

    12b is mostly a kind of nightmare for Hr as you do not have enough burst or survive ability to either kill or stay alive long enough.
    Some might find a way to make it work so far I have tried Trapper, Combat and Hybrid(piercing no cool-downs no capstone) with and without Valhalla set(as I have 2 sets) no luck. I changed from all savage to all radiant or wicked in defense to all radiant or viscous in offence nothing really helped.

    The nerf to healing together with piercing nerf left us with no real valid option left, or at least for me.
    In a good party with pack and longstrider you can be a decent buffer but that is about it.

    Tr, Gf and OP (some cw) are to much to handle, even against dc you can not put a dent in them even.

    I am at 15.5 so not totally bis but then again not far from it either, I guess some will find a way to make it work but other then full combat with 2 offensive class feats (loosing out on lone wolf) in a party that can protect you I really cant see any room for Hr in today's pvp.

    Edit: I also tried trance fey, dread and vorpal in all set ups only fun was to see gushing crit-proc after longstriders with dread on a debuffed target tbh....
  • nerfcc#8605 nerfcc Posts: 35Member Arc User
    Are you using negations?
  • marnivalmarnival Posts: 1,432Member Arc User

    Are you using negations?

    Used negation (not very good for Hr as we have low resist to begin with imo), elven, shadowclad and bark the one i find best myself is bark second elven...
  • jackanuckox3jackanuckox3 Posts: 14Member Arc User
    edited November 2017
    Yup combat is dead .. Damage Still decent with pack and good stats but way to squishy for the fact that u have to go melee.. And with trapper it's 50/50 because it's not easy to play trapper, either you Suck at it and you will die over and over or you are good at it and it works decent the dmg is pretty good with serpent tho trapper is still very squishy, one mistake and you are dead :blush: trapper is definitely stronger than HAMSTER combat though.

    - Jocy
  • marnivalmarnival Posts: 1,432Member Arc User

    Yup combat is dead .. Damage Still decent with pack and good stats but way to squishy for the fact that u have to go melee.. And with trapper it's 50/50 because it's not easy to play trapper, either you Suck at it and you will die over and over or you are good at it and it works decent the dmg is pretty good with serpent tho trapper is still very squishy, one mistake and you are dead :blush: trapper is definitely stronger than HAMSTER combat though.



    - Jocy

    The best I come up with so far is Hybrid using piercing from combat+feats that reduce cooldown to almost 0 from trapper using dread crit about 80% when fighting.

    But if you go offencive in class feats you die to easy and if you don´t you do to little damage. You can get kills but as soon as you face Gf OP Gwf CW that knows what they are doing 14k+ you die. Tr will laugh at ya but then again they laugh at every class and dc looks at you with the face of "no clue what you are doing but it tickles".

    I have both Gf and OP 15+k and have yet to face a Hr that I even can consider a threat beside full trapper cc that helps some other to kill me.

    Unless you are out for some extreme challange or seriously like to play the underdog part I strongly suggest you stay pve with Hr and gear up a Tr to 9-10 as they far outshine any Hr 16k+ in pvp.
  • nerfcc#8605 nerfcc Posts: 35Member Arc User
    I have a tr but I like to use my combat because he's still really good and more challenging. I use eleven, Valhalla set, mirage weps not because there bis just because I havent bought stronghold. Also use trans fey and I'm using serpent and steal time(don't think that's what it's called the one in stormwarden that lowers cooldown a on daily use). I have silverys in defensive slots and with full battle crazed stacks get up to 50% deflection. Use all brutals and one tenbreous in offensive slots. 3 prestige and that hp chest piece. Impenetrablility ring and a tenacity ring. Have around 225 hp and like 49% crit. Basically my hrs a beast and I'm super bummed he won't be in 12b. Were you guys having a lot of success pre 12b? What about aspect of the serpent since it's fixed. But it sounds like the main problem is with survivability? Sorry for the grammar just trying to brain storm hoping we can figure something out combats super fun to play for me don't want to shelf it.
  • marnivalmarnival Posts: 1,432Member Arc User
    edited November 2017

    I have a tr but I like to use my combat because he's still really good and more challenging. I use eleven, Valhalla set, mirage weps not because there bis just because I havent bought stronghold. Also use trans fey and I'm using serpent and steal time(don't think that's what it's called the one in stormwarden that lowers cooldown a on daily use). I have silverys in defensive slots and with full battle crazed stacks get up to 50% deflection. Use all brutals and one tenbreous in offensive slots. 3 prestige and that hp chest piece. Impenetrablility ring and a tenacity ring. Have around 225 hp and like 49% crit. Basically my hrs a beast and I'm super bummed he won't be in 12b. Were you guys having a lot of success pre 12b? What about aspect of the serpent since it's fixed. But it sounds like the main problem is with survivability? Sorry for the grammar just trying to brain storm hoping we can figure something out combats super fun to play for me don't want to shelf it.

    Your problem is lack of burst or lack of survivability you can simply not have both in this.
    If you go super defensive with forrest +ambush 20+% lifesteal using defensive class feats+valhalla set you can actually be rather hard to kill but you sure is not going to kill anything but some afk lowgeared hoping nobody sees you :-).

    Even if you go absolutly Hulk crazy offencive with high arpen as trapper or power/fey as combat Tr will take you down while eating his sandwich shagging his/her partner, Gf will one rotate you, OP will if nice pick of instead of ignoring you, Cw will wave with the left hand and kill you with the right and Gwf will run you over while chasing some other more interresting target.

    Boosting some of those above with Longstrider+pack being trapper cc build is about the best use you can become as I see it(a good Gf with that set up is quite deadly though).

    I am eager to see some pull this one off somebody more or less always find a way if there is a will but as it is now I have run out of ideas :) .
  • krondhorkrondhor Posts: 150Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    edited November 2017
    @balanced#2849
    I am a bis HR full rank 13 atm (17k), and I play mostly PVP, and yes like the others in here since module 12b was released I tried a bit everything, full combat, full trapper, full archer, hybrid combat/trapper, hybrid trapper/archer but whatever build I've tried we are far behind to most of the other dps classes, sorted in this order: TR GF GWF CW OP(dps mode) HR SW (so yes we are at bottom together with SW).
    Sure we can kill lower players but who else can't do that, but as soon we have to battle other players with comparable GS they simple do more dps burst than us, the only way to kill some of them is having DC debuff the opponent and rarely via Soul Sight Crystal damage boost effect.

    Survivability we used to be almost immortal as Combat before now we get one rotated from the first 3 dps classes (TR/GF/GWF) and we last some more with OP/CW but not enough to beat them before they beat us (talking about doing a 1vs1 with comparable GS)

    All past and current change affected us big time, before with the Piercing Damage nerf (I don't put in discussion that the nerf was not right) but we didn't got anything in return to compensate this big damage loss.
    With current healing depression instead your survivability was hurt so much we can't stand fights anymore.

    Some needed changes I would suggest are:
    Wilds Medicine This feat is half effective in PVP this limit should now be removed (was right to exist before) but now since the healing depression changes it's useless, considered this is the only real talent that give us a healing and that Combat is a tree focused on survivability.

    Finally we need a damage boost somewhere, and thinking on what other class have, something we lack since always is a Daily than can be called Daily as none of them we have is doing a good damage burst, all of them do less damage than our best encounters, so what we would need is just one Daily that can be in pair to compete with the ones that can be found among the other DPS classes, since we have the lowest damage dealing dailies of the whole pack.
    Post edited by krondhor on
    GRAVITY X GAME
  • jonkocajonkoca Posts: 2,497Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    edited November 2017
    Sooooo, tldr version is I'll stick with my 13k TR for pvp.

    Pff. Mod2, amazing, mod3, pretty amazing, mod4/5 pretty darn good, mod6-9 goddamn awful, mod10 omg godmode, mod11/12, competitive, mod 12b, back to goddamn awful again.

    Well, at least we're amazing in PvE I guess.

    P.s.. I use t.bark and t.vorpal, with about 45%deflect unbuffed.
    No idea what my toon is now.
  • khandran#2092 khandran Posts: 59Member Arc User
    edited November 2017
    jonkoca said:


    Was thinking of making a pvp archer load out with falcons, just to see if I can one shot people from a distance. Anyone play a pvp archer..? How much arpen is necessary etc..?

    I can tell you this about archer: glass cannon. But at least the cannon is big. I have seen a few archers in pvp and they can be quite painful but they die fast. So you should keep distance not only due to falcons.
  • aderonzaderonz Posts: 120Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    The main issues with HR in PVP right now, is surviability. Every class is dealing ridiculous amount of damage and HR is about the only class with no tools to survive damage nor CC.

    We should have 75% deflect severity and dex should give 1% deflect per point like Trs since we have the same CA. A mouvement speed buff to Trapper and Combat would be good to.

    Damage wise, we can still land very decent hits but we die twice as fast.

    Overnerf to some powers is a problem to, like the double nerf to wild medecine and the triple nerf to trappers root.
  • feanor70118feanor70118 Posts: 1,099Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    edited December 2017
    It's like this: Without the mod 4 piercing damage, Combat HRs do no real damage in pvp.

    HR cc powers, including even boar charge, do not do any control for any length of time, and the recent cc nerf (which somehow did not affect the GF one-rotation faceroll kill) made this situation even worse. So trapper is not an option.

    There's no point to playing archery, since you might be able to kill from a distance but you'd be useless at controlling nodes.

    I and others have said for years that the boar charge animation needs to be redone to remove the second of pause at its end. This amounts to the HR using a cc power on himself - the only one that actually works - and gets him killed on a crowded node. Also, Boar Charge should work LIKE EVERY OTHER PRONE IN THE GAME and actually knock the opposing player down for longer than an eyeblink.

    Right now, HRs in pvp are at more than a 3k IL disadvantage to every other class in the game.

    We need the rework we were promised before mod 10, when all we got was some nerfs and the return to mod 4 piercing damage.

    Besides at least a 30% increase to base damage, I'd suggest (as I probably have before):

    1) Give us back something like the mod 2 hybrid. It's the only HR build that used all the class' abilities.
    2) HR healing abilities, such as Oak Skin, should be made real-world useful again. They haven't been since mod 6.
    3) Just delete the half of the Boar Charge animation that freezes the HR. Lengthen the prone time to the same as other class' prones.
    4) Increase deflect severity to 75%. There has never been a good reason for HR deflect severity being 50% while TR has 75%.
    5) Increase base movement speed by about 30% (or, in Cryptic math, 60%). IT makes no sense that a GF can back around a node behind his shield faster than an HR can follow. Classes in lighter armor should move faster.
    6) If other classes' dodges avoid our control abilities, our dodges, including Fox' Cunning, should dodge theirs.
    7) Remove the animation from Forest Ghost. It should just function like a TR's space bar.
    8) Remove the requirements from utility abilities such as Fox's Cunning that the HR must not be moving in order to use them. It is almost impossible to activate those abilities on a node without dying as a result.
    9) If our only real DPS encounter ability is going to be Plant Growth - still - then we shouldn't be cursed with the completely useless Cordon of Arrows, with its lack of any real control and absurdly long animation, as its ranged counterpart. Either make Cordon useful or give us something that is.
    10) HR encounter damage from pre-mod 6 abilities is simply too low. Large increases are needed.
    11) It should not be possible to target an HR through Marauder's Escape's animation. That makes it not an escape at all.
    12) Since Fox's Cunning only dodges one attack, it is useless against DOT abilities. It should provide immunity to an entire DOT power or, say, 100% deflect severity for 2 seconds.
    13) Let players piece together their own combinations of ranged/melee counterpart encounters. The combinations Cryptic gives us are far from ideal and handicap the class.
    14) If other classes don't have hard cooldowns on their dailies, neither should we (My opinion is that all classes should).
    15) Just get rid of Bear Trap and replace it with something useful. Everyone hates it.

    I'm sure I could mine old posts and threads for more, but since the devs plainly haven't cared about this class since mod 4 that would be even more wasted effort.
  • etelgrinetelgrin Posts: 1,566Member Arc User
    The way you PvE people comment on PvP is quite hilarious. Person above stating Trapper is dead in PvP due to control changes, had you actually been in PvP you would of known that control got actually stronger than weaker, especially first control of the rotation which applies as much to boar charge as it is to GFs bull charge. Yesterday I met an HR which kept me completely stunned, and only reason why he wasn't able to compete with me was because I had 3x his gear score but the player was good and know what he was doing.

    Pug Panther - PvP SW

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  • feanor70118feanor70118 Posts: 1,099Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    Yeah, that explains why there isn't a single highly-geared trapper HR playing. But since you've been in pvp, you know that. Oh, wait....
  • jaime4312#3760 jaime4312 Posts: 844Member Arc User
    I don't think having another class with 75% deflect severity is a good idea, it is vastly overpowered (it is a very large middle finger for enemy players, worse for DoT specs that get their damage mitigated to laughable amounts) and considering the amount of deflection % people can stack (especially HR and TR) it sounds like a big no no.
  • marnivalmarnival Posts: 1,432Member Arc User
    13) Let players piece together their own combinations of ranged/melee counterpart encounters. The combinations Cryptic gives us are far from ideal and handicap the class.</b

    I suggested that earlire and a dev commented that it was on the radar but no clue if it is forgotten.
    If it would come to live am not sure any other changes would be needed other then maby boost survivability some as Hr die way to easy compared to other classes or rather have to few tools to survive since healing nerf hit the class to hard..
  • kainan777kainan777 Posts: 36Member Arc User
    edited December 2017
    marnival said:

    I suggested that earlire and a dev commented that it was on the radar but no clue if it is forgotten.
    If it would come to live am not sure any other changes would be needed other then maby boost survivability some as Hr die way to easy compared to other classes or rather have to few tools to survive since healing nerf hit the class to hard..

    Many rangers dreamed of that since the class introduction. When someone (I don't remember if it was you or not) asked if it's generally possible to separate ranged and melee powers devs answered positively but I don't think they're going to do this. As I remember last discussion at this topic was during rework at summer 2016.
  • zomak#4611 zomak Posts: 223Member Arc User
    Would separating our ranged and Malee powers mean we would need twice as many power points though?
  • feanor70118feanor70118 Posts: 1,099Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    That's an interesting question, but no, the way I imagine it, when putting a loadout together, the game would use the current counterpart combinations as a default, but the player could change them. Slotting a new ability in gameplay would be a problem since it would always use the default counterpart, but that seems livable.
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