test content
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc

Official: M13 Scourge Warlock Changes

2456731

Comments

  • rapo973rapo973 Posts: 830Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    edited October 2017
    I do believe that the soul puppet AI should be improved as well.
    Many times at FBI it doesn't attack the dragon tourtle or more often it's blocked by an obstacle or another player, making it even more "meh".
    Despite the bad moment, I really enojoy playing this class as a DC alternative and the changes are welcome.
    I agree that the proposed improvements for the templock are not so solid to prefer it as a support instead of a DC/GF/OP/MoF CW.
    Post edited by rapo973 on

    Oltreverso guild leader
    Maga Othelma - DC | Svalvolo - SW | Dente Avvelenato- GWF
  • werdandi#8366 werdandi Posts: 254Member Arc User
    edited October 2017
    I really appreciate the fact that you are looking at our class. :)

    Temptation:
    Only the planned changes made to "Aura of Despair" and "Darkness" are useful because they add a debuff/buff utility to this path.
    The other planned changes are questionable because they is already too much heal and heal severity.
    I second the idea of @tom#6998 that could make templock a real viable support dps.
    Yesterday, I was dealing (as fury warlock) in MSP 4x the damage of a temptation lock that was 1k item lower than me and I was wondering why she persisted to use this path because it was everything about heal whereas buffs/damage contribution was not relevant.....

    Fury:
    Thank you for the change of critical promise : the additional damage will be nice.
    As for Killing Curse, warlocks that are not full fury (i.e the majority) will have to choose between this feat or Executionner Gift and I am not sure the new buff outmatches Executioner gift..... But it is kinda nice.
    I would suggest you consider the feedback of @etelgrin and pick some ideas of @jaime4312#3760 ; and also compare our feats with other classes feats.
    We are in a grey zone because there are also the upcoming SW fixes from the October fix list, but other classes will get some fixes too. Still I think we will not be able to compete because our effectiveness starts too late during a fight (when targets are almost dead).

    Damnation:
    Still dead, sorry. But if we have viable Fury and Temptation path, I can live with it.
    Post edited by werdandi#8366 on
  • valnar#5458 valnar Posts: 10Member Arc User
    Dark Revelry is currently not working as described. The power is supposed to buff allies but doesn't buff pets, but does buff Hadar's Brood. It also ignores the SH boon for the base power calculation, which other power share powers include, and at least one other contributor to static unbuffed power is being excluded but I haven't which one yet.
  • The SW should be a very, VERY versatile class - and it could be. SWs could do DPS, healing and buffs, each one of them specific to one path, but with the ability to make hybrid builds - a combination of 2 out of 3 of those properties. SW is a gold mine, and if you use your cards right, you might be looking at a new highly requested class along with the support roles.
  • akta#9913 akta Posts: 60Member Arc User
    I'm really bummed out by the loss of eldritch momentum. I'm really confused why you can't separate PVE from PVP like other games can. If I understand your comment that is why you nerfed it so hard. I will never use the new version of Eldritch and the feat right below it "darkness " is really boring "enemies take 10% more damage from you" that's something I would expect from the Fury path, not to mention anything that deals more damage instantly becomes the "mandatory feat"
  • mat44444mat44444 Posts: 116Member Arc User
    Well it very nice to see you are considering giving the SW some love at last – sadly it is a fun class that really does require it. I doubt the changes listed will make too much difference, but every little helps – so that’s nice

    Personally with the latest changes my Warlock’s been retired and I doubt I will be going back to her without a full rework that brings the class in line with the other classes in the game. Running a full set of Rank 12 with Rank 13 bondings and getting outperformed by classes that are only wearing Rank 9 and 10’s is demoralising and shows that the class is way underperforming in comparison to other ones.

    So overall great to hear you are looking at the issues this class has – but too long to wait to see some improvements and convince me to bring the warlock out of retirement; but it will be great perhaps for those lower level players who might reap the benefits in months to come
  • akta#9913 akta Posts: 60Member Arc User
    You said "Finally, Soul Bonding was yet another feat with some confusing wording. The tooltip for this has been updated so that it more clearly explains how it functions."
    What is the new tooltip? We need to see these all these new tooltips , this is hard to give feedback when you won't show us
  • obsidiancran3obsidiancran3 Posts: 1,772Member Arc User
    The 2 loadouts on my SW are Damnation and Temptation, all I really read in this is "play Fury if you're desperate enough to play SW", because the improvements for Fury look significant while the others are "meh" or "ok, but still not as good as Fury".

    Things like 20' Auras are useless when the players cannot see the aura. I already witness this problem when playing my OP with 30' Auras, but at least I can mark the ground in such a way that people can see how close to me to stand to get buffed. Just remove the whole range thing from the auras and just let them affect the party.

    Power of the Nine Hells
    should be moved to Temptation and it should make PoP have a larger AoE, you know so that people can actually stand in it and get the buff and fight enemies. If you are going to keep the 20' Aura this should have a 15' radius. It might also reliably hit things then as well. (Because sure the BiS guys can get this to do enough damage and place it in the magic spot, but RNG help a levelling player.)

    Gates of Hell is, imo, a terrible power, one of the worst in the game. Casting time is terribly slow, to the point that actually hitting something with it requires so many enemies that its impossible to miss, an immobile enemy or incredible luck.

    Damnation:
    This is the spec I really want to play, I would like to play it without the Soul Puppet being ludicrously broken to the point having it out is basically an exploit or the other extreme where it is basically useless.

    Its an off-tank pet that cannot be kept around reliably (because it dies at random with no means of healing it) that when it is around provides self-buffs and some small buffs for the owner, it would be a lot more useful if it shared those buffs with the party more.

    Even back in play testing the Damnation spec had the issue of "my whole concept doesn't work until you get to the capstone". Levelling as Damnation means having a minimum of 15 levels where you're handicapped. You're handicapped because you cannot depend on having a Soul Puppet around.

    If Power of the Nine Hells was moved to Temptation to match with the buffing theme of Temptation and then Hellish Condemnation was moved to Damnation it could have mechanics to sustain or summon Soul Puppets added to it eg "When you Crit with Hellish Rebuke you refresh the duration of your Soul Puppet."

    Soul Desecration has always been problematic in its wording. Would be much better if it just made Puppets permanent and they gained X% of your HP as HP and when killed returns to service after 15s at half health.
    Obsidian Moonlight - Paladin
    Obsidian Oath - Warlock
    A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
  • schietindebuxschietindebux Posts: 4,109Member Arc User
    edited October 2017
    To start with Aura of Cruelty.
    Spends xy% lifesteal...
    Imo this is unnecessary. Make it a buff or debuff, that fits the name much better. Let's say 12% in 30' area at 4 points combined with maybe vampiric embrance spending 10/20/30/40% of max HP as temp HP.
    This is only a hint of what is needed to get Temptation competable.
    Giving your mates 10% LS sounds funny but won't change anything...except for at 6k GS without boons

    Or boost Aura of Despair (5/10/15/20% less damage) and combine it with Vampiric Embrance like above and make Aura of Cruelty spend a debuff 12.5% plus giving your teammates the benefit of WC, as someone mentioned above. So you give the tools for a offensive and defensive setup.
    The rework needs significant changes ! No cosmetics.

    Similar changes are needed all across Tier 4/5 and maybe a rework of the capstone. Tone down the healing aspect, add a damagedebuff towards your group like:" Your lifesteal heals allies for 100% of it's value and your WC applies "spreading plague" inflicting a 30% damage debuff to the target and nearby foes.
    Post edited by schietindebux on
  • soylentschwarzsoylentschwarz Posts: 2Member Arc User
    edited October 2017
    Ok, thx for the try. But it is not enough. SW = less utility and less damage. So why should i play a SW?

    Feedback:

    Most skills are bad AND have a long cast time.

    The damage buff from pillars of power is nice, but it should be standard. Even with this buff, our damage is low. Without this buff we are a joke. And the radius is very small.

    The damage buff from warlocks curse should count for allies too.
    Post edited by soylentschwarz on
  • someonediessomeonedies Posts: 1,126Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    Feedback
    Stamina Regeneration Delay needs a review.
    Take into consideration that CW/DC/TR/HR stamina regeneration is out of control (there's no delay).
    2 sec delay is not balanced at all; balance it across all classes;

    My CW can perma-teleport with the 50% stamina regeneration equipped.

  • desertravelerdesertraveler Posts: 46Member Arc User
    edited October 2017
    Apply the principle of KISS- 'Keep it simple stupid.'
    Stop playing with little increments of 1 or 2 % thinking this will have an effect on this class-it will not. Just go through all the feat trees and double all the numbers you come across, then put it on preview and go from there. It really is that easy.
    The inevitable exception: Make sure the feats and powers actually work then double the numbers you come across and you are done. I am sure you could replace the coding numbers in a day and then have it on preview next week and then move onto more pressing issues.

    KISS the SW
    Post edited by desertraveler on
  • rjc9000rjc9000 Posts: 2,032Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    I'm not a SW, but I think that some changes are better than none...



    Fury:
    Daughter's Promise: The damage dealt from this power now scales with power/buffs
    Critical Promise: The damage dealt from this power now scales with power/buffs
    Critical Promise: Damage reduced to 4/8/12/16/20% (down from 10/20/30/40/50%)
    Killing Curse: The damage dealt from this power now scales with power/buffs

    In the name of laziness efficiency, do you know off the top of your head if these will scale with the Soul Sight Crystal in Mod13?

  • einsiegeinsieg Posts: 86Member Arc User
    edited October 2017

    Feedback
    Stamina Regeneration Delay needs a review.
    Take into consideration that CW/DC/TR/HR stamina regeneration is out of control (there's no delay).
    2 sec delay is not balanced at all; balance it across all classes;

    My CW can perma-teleport with the 50% stamina regeneration equipped.

    I will second this. I believe the stamina delay for sprint maneuvers is archaic and doesn't belong in the game anymore.
  • schietindebuxschietindebux Posts: 4,109Member Arc User
    @rjc9000
    a buffed 20% weapon damage sounds huge, same as a buffed 15% from killing curse
    I am sure Fury tree will get a significant boost.
    I am more concerned about the Temptations rework, we were waiting for 3 years and wich sounds pretty meh
  • rjc9000rjc9000 Posts: 2,032Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User

    @rjc9000

    a buffed 20% weapon damage sounds huge, same as a buffed 15% from killing curse

    I am sure Fury tree will get a significant boost.

    I am more concerned about the Temptations rework, we were waiting for 3 years and wich sounds pretty meh

    I'm not here to argue for whether it's good or bad, I was wondering if @balanced#2849 knew if the Mod13 versions of those feats scale with the Soul Sight Crystal buff, since it means less testing for me.

    I would guess the Mod13 versions of these feats will scale, but there are some wacky things in the game programming that makes me want to check manually just in case (ex: Thorned Roots won't scale with Soul Sight Crystal, despite scaling with things like EmpBtS or ITF).

  • pyrosorcererpyrosorcerer Posts: 130Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    edited October 2017
    There are however some benefits of not being counted for as healer on Temptation as well as some of my guildmates pointed out. In the new random que system the group requirements are set to 1 healer, so if they (and I) are correct no more double DC in the random que, while Temptation SW would fit as an extra utility support for both survivability and damage if tweaked correctly.

    edit: small typos
  • darthtzarrdarthtzarr Posts: 1,003Member Arc User

    There are however some benefits of not being counted for as healer on Temptation as well as some of my guildmates pointed out. In the new random que system the group requirements are set to 1 healer, so if they (and I) are correct no more double DC in the random que, while Temptation SW would fit as an extra utility support for both survivability and damage if tweaked correctly.



    edit: small typos

    Yes, the only issue comes up if the queue somehow allows 3 support DPS. I would probably just sit there at the door crying if random queue gave me:

    Sentinel GWF
    Temptation Warlock
    Renegade MoF CW
    Tankadin
    Healadin

    Signature [WIP] - tyvm John

  • naoqueroforumnaoqueroforum Posts: 225Member Arc User

    @tom I would rather change the capstone of temptation to make allies within 20' receive a damage buff equal to half of the templock's lifesteal chance (capped at 30% buff) in addition to what it currently does.

    Templock might also be marginally more desirable if it had some better tools for mitigating damage, say if it had an overheal mechanic. "When you and your allies are on full hp, convert half of the healing done to them to temp hp, capping at 100% of their life total."

    I have proposed something similar for the temp HP for temptation. That would make it actually useful. But still not enough was done to temptation. Eldritch Momentum change was good because now we don't need to worry about picking it up in any case and we can put those 5 points elsewhere without remorse. Same as today, since its only use right now is in PvP, when at the rare occasion you don't get one shot by a DoT you are able to play your part in the match which is fleeing all the way to another base to hopefully capture it before you have to flee again.

    With the change to pillar crit and OBC cd, temptations which had about 30% of their damage coming from Infantile compensation will be getting at the very least a 15% decrease in damage (considering the sw does some work around to mitigate the nerf). A damage which wasn't really good to start with anyway. If the capstone had 20% increased damage to cursed targets, which also buffed allies damage by 10%, it would start to look more desirable to a group.

    By the way, the curse consume mechanic is something that probably could go away. Just do curse synergy for everything instead of consume, or at the very least allow lesser curse to be consumed. We will still be limited to optimal damage on a maximum of 3 targets anyway, but would not have to worry so much if we accidentally target soul scorch on a mob that had only lesser curse instead of warlock's curse.

    Another thing is TC. Doesn't the fact that it is a debuff cause it to be subject to the diminishing returns on effectiveness at highly debuffed targets? In the previous mod, when there was a hard cap and no diminishing returns, even though inferior to what a buff would do, it at least had the advantage of bypassing the hard cap. Does it bypass the diminishing returns as it is now? Probably not, right?
    Should make it into a buff instead of a debuff. That would guarantee it wouldn't be inferior to a regular curse on single targets.

    I would also look at how other buffs affects us. Aura of courage for example is a major buff to classes like cw and gwf, but somehow does way less for us.
  • bratleyraybratleyray Posts: 292Member Arc User
    @zebular any way this post can be pinned as its more relevant than the mod 12.5 posts before it that are already live?
    HB Fury SW, DO DC, GF (Full Tank)



    [The Legendary Outlaws] (Guildhall 20)

This discussion has been closed.