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Controlling Effects and the Controller Build

mebengalsfan#9264 mebengalsfan Member Posts: 3,169 Arc User
edited October 2017 in PvE Discussion
I know many will read this and state NW does not have an controlling in this game. Well, yes and no. There are many enemies that can be controlled but due to how quickly we kill them controlling is not needed.

With Mod 12B there are changes that will overall lowering stats, slowing down the kill rate. This means either more buffing and debuffing, but with the current diminishing returns for buff/debuff many groups are already achieving near max %. Therefore with the up coming changes and the devs really pushing for us not to run 2 DCs in dungeons, maybe it is time for controller to make an appearance back in the game.

With that said, if this is what the devs are trying to achieve, please ensure that mobs can be controlled so that controller builds are viable option for players at end game.

Just thought I would share an observation I had about all the change and a way to fix/work around it without asking for buffing up our damage or adjusting content downward. Instead, if we can control some adds it will make some of the harder content not as hard.

This would make more classes needed at end game.

Just a thought.

Comments

  • armadeonxarmadeonx Member Posts: 4,952 Arc User
    Everything except bosses should be controllable. Recent releases appear to be moving in a direction where enemies are either immune or resistant but at the same time they apply lots of CC to players (constant interrupts, powers that ignore player immunity skills and apply heavy stuns etc).
    Please Do Not Feed The Trolls

    Xael De Armadeon: DC
    Xane De Armadeon: CW
    Zen De Armadeon: OP
    Zohar De Armadeon: TR
    Chrion De Armadeon: SW
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  • mamalion1234mamalion1234 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,415 Arc User

    I know many will read this and state NW does not have an controlling in this game. Well, yes and no. There are many enemies that can be controlled but due to how quickly we kill them controlling is not needed.

    With Mod 12B there are changes that will overall lowering stats, slowing down the kill rate. This means either more buffing and debuffing, but with the current diminishing returns for buff/debuff many groups are already achieving near max %. Therefore with the up coming changes and the devs really pushing for us not to run 2 DCs in dungeons, maybe it is time for controller to make an appearance back in the game.

    With that said, if this is what the devs are trying to achieve, please ensure that mobs can be controlled so that controller builds are viable option for players at end game.

    Just thought I would share an observation I had about all the change and a way to fix/work around it without asking for buffing up our damage or adjusting content downward. Instead, if we can control some adds it will make some of the harder content not as hard.

    This would make more classes needed at end game.

    Just a thought.

    Adds? 1 place i can think about tong they made almost every boss no adds..............
  • mebengalsfan#9264 mebengalsfan Member Posts: 3,169 Arc User
    armadeonx said:

    Everything except bosses should be controllable. Recent releases appear to be moving in a direction where enemies are either immune or resistant but at the same time they apply lots of CC to players (constant interrupts, powers that ignore player immunity skills and apply heavy stuns etc).

    If the devs allowed us to control enemy mobs again, Controller could be the difference in those fights. I liked how when I was playing my CW that in MC I could freeze adds though most were dead fairly quickly. I do know that it would have been nice even if only for 2-3 seconds in FBI to be able to freeze the giants. That would have allowed the tank and DC a little bit of breathing room. To me, this is where the game could improve upon by allowing a classes, such as CW, that were designed around the ability to crowd control to actually do what the class was designed to do.
  • mamalion1234mamalion1234 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,415 Arc User
    edited October 2017
    With high wisdom control bonus boons and 1 cantakerous mage i can freeze 4-5 sec the yuan ti mobs(snakes) in tong without playing the orb of imposition or be an opressor or have a valindra set.

    Elite mobs exist so all the party to work together tanks to be smarter players general to be smarter.
    Giants in fbi is not an issue ( the job for controler is to control the bears ) he can throw the red area to another place than the party if you do it right.

    My only concern are the shadows catch the players in tong you cant do something to stop them.
  • armadeonxarmadeonx Member Posts: 4,952 Arc User
    Shadows should be vulnerable to Holy/Radiant powers from the DC and Paladin...
    Please Do Not Feed The Trolls

    Xael De Armadeon: DC
    Xane De Armadeon: CW
    Zen De Armadeon: OP
    Zohar De Armadeon: TR
    Chrion De Armadeon: SW
    Gosti Big Belly: GWF
    Barney McRustbucket: GF
    Lt. Thackeray: HR
    Lucius De Armadeon: BD


    Member of Casual Dailies - XBox
  • niadanniadan Member Posts: 1,635 Arc User
    edited October 2017
    The glorious days of stacking nothing but recovery and gathering mobs to be pushed into the abyss....great fun!
  • karvarekarvare Member Posts: 264 Arc User
    As an OP I usually try to drag the shadows with me. Temp HP and BO can keep me alive, while the rest of the party try to avoid them.
  • lanevosquadlanevosquad Member Posts: 11 Arc User

    armadeonx said:

    Everything except bosses should be controllable. Recent releases appear to be moving in a direction where enemies are either immune or resistant but at the same time they apply lots of CC to players (constant interrupts, powers that ignore player immunity skills and apply heavy stuns etc).

    If the devs allowed us to control enemy mobs again, Controller could be the difference in those fights. I liked how when I was playing my CW that in MC I could freeze adds though most were dead fairly quickly. I do know that it would have been nice even if only for 2-3 seconds in FBI to be able to freeze the giants. That would have allowed the tank and DC a little bit of breathing room. To me, this is where the game could improve upon by allowing a classes, such as CW, that were designed around the ability to crowd control to actually do what the class was designed to do.
    This.

    Being a trapper HR, whether with guildies or pugs, I always felt it my duty for mob control. Granted, they die pretty quickly with OP builds (gwf, dps cleric, etc etc) but it did give the tank and healer some room to relax. It would also allow a bit of composition diversity and coordination setup.

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  • preechr#2215 preechr Member Posts: 488 Arc User
    Everything my Trapper and my GF do has some measure of control involved, and they are my favorite alts to play
    In every game I've played, I've always preferred CC and DoTs to bigger hammer builds, but unfortunately it's very rare to find game makers that care enough about alternate playstyles to make them viable

    Hopefully, if they really do progress toward making a Bard Class, which should be a CC/Buff/Debuff class if its going to be anything like a Bard other than in name, or a Druid, which would seem to extend the nature based CC/DoT powers in the Trapper HR tree and maybe even offer summoning, the game makers we have will broaden the scope of what other classes could bring to a dungeon (other than MOAR DEEPS) add content where DPS is not the only effective solution

    If they don't their new classes just won't have a place in the game

    At the end of the day, there just are no trade-offs to building high DPS on any class other than some just won't DPS as much as others

    Any class can build to maximize their damage dealt and still be rugged enough to take a ton of damage while life-stealing enough to make a healer uneccessary

    No amount of macro balancing will ever fix this... This is not "power-creep," it is just poorly designed feat trees and stat distributions on enchants

    As far as enchants go:

    Maximum Damage Output should come at a cost to defense, so life-steal should be reconsidered as an offensive stat rather than a defensive one so players have to choose one or the other

    Likewise, reconsidering recovery as a defensive stat instead of an offensive one would force a choice between tankiness and DPS via faster CDs on powers

    I thought about listing out the enchants this swap would affect and talking about how various builds would change, but the point of this thread was to talk about increasing the viability of Control Builds, and I think this one change to enchants would have a huge impact on accomplishing that goal... while addressing a ton of other imbalances in the game as it works now

    If this is interesting to you, you should look at the stats enchants currently give (https://neverwinter.gamepedia.com/Enchanting) and imagine the affects of simply swapping recovery and life-steal on enchants and think about what that would do to the various class builds we have now in Neverwinter and what new possiblities it could open up in terms of builds that are viable but not currently valuable

    Or, you could just reflexively respond with insults... that's always fun too
  • mebengalsfan#9264 mebengalsfan Member Posts: 3,169 Arc User

    Everything my Trapper and my GF do has some measure of control involved, and they are my favorite alts to play
    In every game I've played, I've always preferred CC and DoTs to bigger hammer builds, but unfortunately it's very rare to find game makers that care enough about alternate playstyles to make them viable

    Hopefully, if they really do progress toward making a Bard Class, which should be a CC/Buff/Debuff class if its going to be anything like a Bard other than in name, or a Druid, which would seem to extend the nature based CC/DoT powers in the Trapper HR tree and maybe even offer summoning, the game makers we have will broaden the scope of what other classes could bring to a dungeon (other than MOAR DEEPS) add content where DPS is not the only effective solution

    If they don't their new classes just won't have a place in the game

    At the end of the day, there just are no trade-offs to building high DPS on any class other than some just won't DPS as much as others

    Any class can build to maximize their damage dealt and still be rugged enough to take a ton of damage while life-stealing enough to make a healer uneccessary

    No amount of macro balancing will ever fix this... This is not "power-creep," it is just poorly designed feat trees and stat distributions on enchants

    As far as enchants go:

    Maximum Damage Output should come at a cost to defense, so life-steal should be reconsidered as an offensive stat rather than a defensive one so players have to choose one or the other

    Likewise, reconsidering recovery as a defensive stat instead of an offensive one would force a choice between tankiness and DPS via faster CDs on powers

    I thought about listing out the enchants this swap would affect and talking about how various builds would change, but the point of this thread was to talk about increasing the viability of Control Builds, and I think this one change to enchants would have a huge impact on accomplishing that goal... while addressing a ton of other imbalances in the game as it works now

    If this is interesting to you, you should look at the stats enchants currently give (https://neverwinter.gamepedia.com/Enchanting) and imagine the affects of simply swapping recovery and life-steal on enchants and think about what that would do to the various class builds we have now in Neverwinter and what new possiblities it could open up in terms of builds that are viable but not currently valuable

    Or, you could just reflexively respond with insults... that's always fun too

    I see your points on changing the enchantments around and I believe there are many ways for the devs to bring about changes to the game in a positive manner where it improve group composition and brings about more balance.

    One area where I could see improvement is how buffing works when stacking one or more type of role and in the game current state, it is hard to say who is a true leader and who is a true defender as DC and GF are also designed to be controllers. With that said, it would be nice if the devs would actually design these classes to be able to actually pick a role when going into content. Content should also require 1 Defender, 1 leader, 1 controller and 2 striker classes.

    Another thought is adding Buffer instead of controller as a role. This would really hinder many builds but it is an idea on how to reduce doubling up on classes especially if buffing feats and personals are tied into specific builds.

    I personally prefer having a controller role that can do some buffing but main focus in on crowd control.

    All changes recommend by the community take time and cost to implement. I hope the devs can work some magic to broaden the game and bring in a true controller role along with balancing stats and content so that way players of higher and lower IL can enjoy the content, find it some what challenging and rewarding for time and effort in the content.

    One thing I would like to see added to treasure boxes is a 1% chance at an enchanted key. I mean, who wouldn't enjoy getting that at the end of a dungeon as an award.


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