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Official Feedback Thread: Random Queues

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  • plasticbatplasticbat Posts: 5,931Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    edited October 2017

    > @plasticbat said:

    > I see it clear that this RQ system is 1) a blatant cash-grab for new players and 2) a way of getting players into FBI and MSP no matter what (because why would they change the rewards to make the dungeons more demanded?).

    >

    > And @motu999#9953 don't forget that 2 or 3 modules ahead, T9G will be considered as easy as FBI, MSP or MC, so the wall for newbies will become larger. Really, why trying so hard to fight bots while the damage is mostly being done to players? The same happened with the gateway, and it will happen to many other things, I fear.

    >

    > How do you see this as a cash grab to new player?

    >

    > New player below level 70 can do level RQ to earn AD.

    > New player who reaches level 70 can still do ONE level RQ dungeon (vs you need to do 2 today) to earn same amount of AD.

    > New player who has just reached level 70 cannot do Epic RQ. They can still do level RQ to earn AD. i.e. they are not cut off from AD earning. They need to spend extra 10 minutes to do a level RQ dungeon they may not want to do to get the AD. Then, they can do the epic dungeon of their choice.

    > Will this new RQ make new player upset? Probably. I just don't see the cash grab. If you are upset, will you pay?





    Putting the RQs behind a SKT wall just as the SKT campaign unlock in the store becomes available looks like a blatent cash grab.

    How so? There is RQ for level dungeon. Anyone can do it. No SKT requirement.
    Why does anyone even want to do Epic RQ at all? Anyone includes people who are well equip to do all dungeons.
    There is no good reason for most people go to do Epic RQ besides a "challenge".
    If you want AD, do RQ level dungeon once to earn the AD which is the exact amount of AD you can earn from Epic RQ. Then, on your way to do any Epic dungeon of your choice as many as you want.

    I said a few times already and let me try again. My prediction:

    1. This RQ system will not serve the goal dev hoped it can achieve.
    2. Most people who are well equip, has all campaign unlocked, will NOT do ERQ (Epic RQ) because it is hard to estimate time. You can get ETOS or FBI. For those who are time sensitive, they will do one 3-man LRQ (Level RQ) (that takes 10 minutes) to get the AD and then do ETOS, eCC, eGWD, etc.
    3. People who are not well equip, they can't do FBI, etc even if they have campaign unlocked. Qualify to do ERQ does not mean you can finish ERQ. Nobody wants to do FBI for 2 hours and fail and no AD. They will also do one LRQ and then do whatever dungeon they want.
    4. a channel will be made by someone with a name like L70_LRQ_D2D (as Level 70 Level RQ Door to Door run). People will form 3 man group over there and do their one LRQ of the day.

    So, for me, ERQ is for the elite who wants to challenge themselves ('challenge' may not be the right word) and these people do not really care about that "small amount" of RQ AD to begin with.

    In short, if you want to get AD, you should not run ERQ.
    If you don't care about AD, you should not run ERQ.

    ERQ will be like the Stronghold PVP thing very soon after mod 12b.
    Post edited by plasticbat on
  • preechr#2215 preechr Posts: 488Member Arc User


    There is no good reason for most people go to do Epic RQ besides a "challenge".

    It will make it easier to find a gaggle of unprepared, undergeared and generally clueless people to hamper your efforts at soloing a dungeon! Plus FREE RAD!
  • ecrana#2080 ecrana Posts: 1,203Member Arc User

    and if you think SW don't need a boost I also have a CW that I leveled up....in the short time that I have had this character my dps is now about the same as my SW but only has a item level of 9k

    Are you comparing a templock SW to a DPS oriented CW? Because a templock is naturally not going to do as much damage as the other paths you can take with your SW.

    As for nerfs, there are still plenty of people that can do very good damage with a SW. Just cleared a TonG the other night with a SW doing all the DPS. We had failed at the last boss trying it with different GWFs, 1 DC, 2 DC, 1 CW. Fail after fail. We got the SW and he just destroyed everything.

    People seem to think SW is dead and it's not. You just have to be very good to be effective with it. I'm not blasting people. I have a SW (my main) and it does not compete with some of the SWs I've run with. Has the SW seen better days? Hell yes. But dead? I don't think so.
  • sorcha#9865 sorcha Posts: 32Member Arc User

    > @plasticbat said:

    > I see it clear that this RQ system is 1) a blatant cash-grab for new players and 2) a way of getting players into FBI and MSP no matter what (because why would they change the rewards to make the dungeons more demanded?).

    >

    > And @motu999#9953 don't forget that 2 or 3 modules ahead, T9G will be considered as easy as FBI, MSP or MC, so the wall for newbies will become larger. Really, why trying so hard to fight bots while the damage is mostly being done to players? The same happened with the gateway, and it will happen to many other things, I fear.

    >

    > How do you see this as a cash grab to new player?

    >

    > New player below level 70 can do level RQ to earn AD.

    > New player who reaches level 70 can still do ONE level RQ dungeon (vs you need to do 2 today) to earn same amount of AD.

    > New player who has just reached level 70 cannot do Epic RQ. They can still do level RQ to earn AD. i.e. they are not cut off from AD earning. They need to spend extra 10 minutes to do a level RQ dungeon they may not want to do to get the AD. Then, they can do the epic dungeon of their choice.

    > Will this new RQ make new player upset? Probably. I just don't see the cash grab. If you are upset, will you pay?





    Putting the RQs behind a SKT wall just as the SKT campaign unlock in the store becomes available looks like a blatent cash grab.

    How so? There is RQ for level dungeon. Anyone can do it. No SKT requirement.
    Why does anyone even want to do Epic RQ at all? Anyone includes people who are well equip to do all dungeons.
    There is no good reason for most people go to do Epic RQ besides a "challenge".
    If you want AD, do RQ level dungeon once to earn the AD which is the exact amount of AD you can earn from Epic RQ. Then, on your way to do any Epic dungeon of your choice as many as you want.

    I said a few times already and let me try again. My prediction:

    1. This RQ system will not serve the goal dev hoped it can achieve.
    2. Most people who are well equip, has all campaign unlocked, will NOT do ERQ (Epic RQ) because it is hard to estimate time. You can get ETOS or FBI. For those who are time sensitive, they will do one 3-man LRQ (Level RQ) (that takes 10 minutes) to get the AD and then do ETOS, eCC, eGWD, etc.
    3. People who are not well equip, they can't do FBI, etc even if they have campaign unlocked. Qualify to do ERQ does not mean you can finish ERQ. Nobody wants to do FBI for 2 hours and fail and no AD. They will also do one LRQ and then do whatever dungeon they want.
    4. a channel will be made by someone with a name like L70_LRQ_D2D (as Level 70 Level RQ Door to Door run). People will form 3 man group over there and do their one LRQ of the day.

    So, for me, ERQ is for the elite who wants to challenge themselves ('challenge' may not be the right word) and these people do not really care about that "small amount" of RQ AD to begin with.

    In short, if you want to get AD, you should not run ERQ.
    If you don't care about AD, you should not run ERQ.

    ERQ will be like the Stronghold PVP thing very soon after mod 12b.
    ok....... there is a lot of what are you talking about here..... of course people are going to use the ERQ.... and the people wont will be the people like me who can't get in because 3 epic dungeons are still locked.... and lets face it at least 3 of those dungeon's I like I said else where, I would not be wanted because DPS is too low.....however for the spider epic dungeon my dps is good enough I have being top dps with 90k....it not a lot but its enough.....

    so you don't do epic Dungeons for AD...for a lot of people your normal is not normal....more than a few people do epic Dungeons for AD....

    I have seen people say this about how there income stream will be impacted....well guess what, people like me are the people who buy your HAMSTER.....and this change with not being able to get into ERQ will effect our income to buy stuff out of AH.....

    This will force player's to upgrade their own enchantment because they don't and will not be able to save 100000 or more AD to buy yours.....

    I would rather make my own anyway.....
  • sorcha#9865 sorcha Posts: 32Member Arc User

    and if you think SW don't need a boost I also have a CW that I leveled up....in the short time that I have had this character my dps is now about the same as my SW but only has a item level of 9k

    Are you comparing a templock SW to a DPS oriented CW? Because a templock is naturally not going to do as much damage as the other paths you can take with your SW.

    As for nerfs, there are still plenty of people that can do very good damage with a SW. Just cleared a TonG the other night with a SW doing all the DPS. We had failed at the last boss trying it with different GWFs, 1 DC, 2 DC, 1 CW. Fail after fail. We got the SW and he just destroyed everything.

    People seem to think SW is dead and it's not. You just have to be very good to be effective with it. I'm not blasting people. I have a SW (my main) and it does not compete with some of the SWs I've run with. Has the SW seen better days? Hell yes. But dead? I don't think so.
    thank you for your question.... I'm for the most part I just saying how hard it being to get my SW to the dps level I do have, and its being easy to my CW to the same dps....

    and neither CW or SW and compeate with a GWF for dps and in higher level dungons people for the most part only want GWF...

    I have seen people quit there CW SW or other dps toons for the GWF....This is not good for the game.....

    I did have a GWF I deleted it because I did not like the class....

    I won't be making a GWF....

  • sorcha#9865 sorcha Posts: 32Member Arc User


    If I'm reading this right after this is live I will be only able skim and the easy dungeons.....and that is it....

    You probably understand that already but just in case:

    You can still do whatever Epic dungeon you want. You don't have to do RQ to enter Epic dungeon.
    The difference is you will not earn AD from Epic dungeon without doing RQ.

    You still can (and very capable to) do ONE 3 man level RQ dungeon per day to match the same amount of AD you can earn right now doing 2 Epic dungeons. No, you don't get more than AD from level dungeon.
    ok.... so I think what will happen people like myself wont use ERQ because I have said it before my class is not wanted in the 3 maybe 4 hard epic dungeon's... so I think the ERQ is going to fail because the grind just to unlock these dungeon's is going to take months...and if it was not worth our time to unlock them before why would we now....

  • preechr#2215 preechr Posts: 488Member Arc User

    and if you think SW don't need a boost I also have a CW that I leveled up....in the short time that I have had this character my dps is now about the same as my SW but only has a item level of 9k

    Are you comparing a templock SW to a DPS oriented CW? Because a templock is naturally not going to do as much damage as the other paths you can take with your SW.

    As for nerfs, there are still plenty of people that can do very good damage with a SW. Just cleared a TonG the other night with a SW doing all the DPS. We had failed at the last boss trying it with different GWFs, 1 DC, 2 DC, 1 CW. Fail after fail. We got the SW and he just destroyed everything.

    People seem to think SW is dead and it's not. You just have to be very good to be effective with it. I'm not blasting people. I have a SW (my main) and it does not compete with some of the SWs I've run with. Has the SW seen better days? Hell yes. But dead? I don't think so.
    thank you for your question.... I'm for the most part I just saying how hard it being to get my SW to the dps level I do have, and its being easy to my CW to the same dps....

    and neither CW or SW and compeate with a GWF for dps and in higher level dungons people for the most part only want GWF...

    I have seen people quit there CW SW or other dps toons for the GWF....This is not good for the game.....

    I did have a GWF I deleted it because I did not like the class....

    I won't be making a GWF....

    So, are you comparing a templock build, which is not a dps SW build, to a dps CW build?
  • plasticbatplasticbat Posts: 5,931Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    edited October 2017


    If I'm reading this right after this is live I will be only able skim and the easy dungeons.....and that is it....

    You probably understand that already but just in case:

    You can still do whatever Epic dungeon you want. You don't have to do RQ to enter Epic dungeon.
    The difference is you will not earn AD from Epic dungeon without doing RQ.

    You still can (and very capable to) do ONE 3 man level RQ dungeon per day to match the same amount of AD you can earn right now doing 2 Epic dungeons. No, you don't get more than AD from level dungeon.
    ok.... so I think what will happen people like myself wont use ERQ because I have said it before my class is not wanted in the 3 maybe 4 hard epic dungeon's... so I think the ERQ is going to fail because the grind just to unlock these dungeon's is going to take months...and if it was not worth our time to unlock them before why would we now....

    ERQ will fail was exactly my point.
    I don't even know who would even like to do ERQ.

    Can you give me a reason (besides AD) why anyone would want to go to ERQ (that assumes you qualify and well equipped to do any dungeon)?

    It is not even about the grind. Many people did that already. It is about the probable dungeon ERQ may send you to.
    I have them all unlock. I have 5 characters who can do ERQ but I don't want to because I prefer to go to the dungeon of my choice.
    So, what can ERQ give me but a normal Epic dungeon queue can't?
    Only one thing. AD.
    As I said, if I care about AD, I will just do a 10 minutes LRQ. Why do I risk with ERQ which can take a long time and the group can fail? A FBI run can take from half an hour to 2 hours and may still fail.
    If I don't care about AD, why do I bother with ERQ? I can just do whatever Epic dungeon I choose to.


    Post edited by plasticbat on
  • plasticbatplasticbat Posts: 5,931Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    edited October 2017


    so you don't do epic Dungeons for AD...for a lot of people your normal is not normal....more than a few people do epic Dungeons for AD....

    Let us compare what people do now and what people can do in the future.

    Now: people does 2 Epic dungeons of their choice (e.g. ETOS) to get daily AD + seal + salvage.
    Future: people will do 1 (10 minutes) LRQ to get daily AD + 2 Epic dungeons of their choice (e.g. ETOS) to get seal + salvage.

    So, the difference is that 10 minutes. They do 2 Epic dungeon now and can do 2 Epic dungeon in the future. There is no ERQ in this picture.

    Basically, we are talking about that 10 minutes. I am not saying that 10 minutes is not important. If you have only 30 minutes to play, that 10 minutes means 1/3 of the time. However, if you have only 30 minutes to play, for sure, you should not do ERQ.
  • sorcha#9865 sorcha Posts: 32Member Arc User


    There is no good reason for most people go to do Epic RQ besides a "challenge".

    It will make it easier to find a gaggle of unprepared, undergeared and generally clueless people to hamper your efforts at soloing a dungeon! Plus FREE RAD!


    If I'm reading this right after this is live I will be only able skim and the easy dungeons.....and that is it....

    You probably understand that already but just in case:

    You can still do whatever Epic dungeon you want. You don't have to do RQ to enter Epic dungeon.
    The difference is you will not earn AD from Epic dungeon without doing RQ.

    You still can (and very capable to) do ONE 3 man level RQ dungeon per day to match the same amount of AD you can earn right now doing 2 Epic dungeons. No, you don't get more than AD from level dungeon.
    ok.... so I think what will happen people like myself wont use ERQ because I have said it before my class is not wanted in the 3 maybe 4 hard epic dungeon's... so I think the ERQ is going to fail because the grind just to unlock these dungeon's is going to take months...and if it was not worth our time to unlock them before why would we now....

    ERQ will fail was exactly my point.
    I don't even know who would even like to do ERQ.

    Can you give me a reason (besides AD) why anyone would want to go to ERQ (that assumes you qualify and well equipped to do any dungeon)?

    It is not even about the grind. Many people did that already. It is about the probable dungeon ERQ may send you to.
    I have them all unlock. I have 5 characters who can do ERQ but I don't want to because I prefer to go to the dungeon of my choice.
    So, what can ERQ give me but a normal Epic dungeon queue can't?
    Only one thing. AD.
    As I said, if I care about AD, I will just do a 10 minutes LRQ. Why do I risk with ERQ which can take a long time and the group can fail? A FBI run can take from half an hour to 2 hours and may still fail.
    If I don't care about AD, why do I bother with ERQ? I can just do whatever Epic dungeon I choose to.


    I don't like the thought of the ERQ because if I was able to unlock the epic dungeon's I would not be able to finish them anyway....and a lot of people would fit in that boat....

    ERQ make no sense for under geared players...what do under geared player need to upgrade the characters AD = coal wards...plus anything else we may need all gonna cost AD.....

    My guild does not a full 5 player that are geared well enough to get into a private Q to by pass ERQ...so as far as I know were screwed.....

    So what about under booned guilds with little or no active players....

  • sorcha#9865 sorcha Posts: 32Member Arc User

    and if you think SW don't need a boost I also have a CW that I leveled up....in the short time that I have had this character my dps is now about the same as my SW but only has a item level of 9k

    Are you comparing a templock SW to a DPS oriented CW? Because a templock is naturally not going to do as much damage as the other paths you can take with your SW.

    As for nerfs, there are still plenty of people that can do very good damage with a SW. Just cleared a TonG the other night with a SW doing all the DPS. We had failed at the last boss trying it with different GWFs, 1 DC, 2 DC, 1 CW. Fail after fail. We got the SW and he just destroyed everything.

    People seem to think SW is dead and it's not. You just have to be very good to be effective with it. I'm not blasting people. I have a SW (my main) and it does not compete with some of the SWs I've run with. Has the SW seen better days? Hell yes. But dead? I don't think so.
    thank you for your question.... I'm for the most part I just saying how hard it being to get my SW to the dps level I do have, and its being easy to my CW to the same dps....

    and neither CW or SW and compeate with a GWF for dps and in higher level dungons people for the most part only want GWF...

    I have seen people quit there CW SW or other dps toons for the GWF....This is not good for the game.....

    I did have a GWF I deleted it because I did not like the class....

    I won't be making a GWF....

    So, are you comparing a templock build, which is not a dps SW build, to a dps CW build?
    It may seem that way....but for me its about how long it took to get the dps

    My SW 8 months

    My CW 2 months

    how ever my SW at this time is still more useful...my templock can solo some quest in chult which I don't think I can with my CW...but hey how long will be able to I don't know....
  • ladypeanut66ladypeanut66 Posts: 78Member Arc User
    I see not doing ERQ is like right now doing only one dungeon a day. It is there, it gives 'free' RAD, if you qualify you should do it? With RQ, you can get 'free' RAD from one Leveling RQ, one ERQ, one Skirmish RQ, one trial RQ, one Hero's Accord RQ. The... Idea I can see for doing this is to give players with certain progression more RAD, but you have to lock the RAD at some point. For example, getting to 8k IL may cost almost no effort, but getting to 11k IL... You have to do some serious grind (or at least I have to). There is a moment in the game in which the AD you need for upgrades spikes pretty hard, right now I see the wall of RQ being after the spike.

    What I am trying to say: AD invested/IL gained is a somewhat exponential function. Until certain IL, it is easy to get IL without expending a lot of AD. The RQ should start to 'unlock' before you get to the hard part, so the player can see they are getting better and so, they are getting more AD. Right now, you get to level 70, then there is a huge wall and a lot of 'hey, look at this campaign completion tokens ;) ;)' until you get to 11k IL and can do FBI and MSP. That is discouraging, at least for me.

    A solution I am thinking right now, would be something like the quest to do edemo, msva, etc... and you get one blood ruby. Do the RQs optional, make them give more rewards - meaningful rewards - that attract people to do them. Players shouldn't need to have 11k IL and a ton of campaigns umlocked in order to do MC on ERQ; it feels stupid to work so hard to get there only to get placed into MC, or VT, or some other 'not-so-hard' dungeon.
  • ravenskyaravenskya Posts: 1,887Member Arc User
    I still think if they let us open the other chest w/o a key if we chose ERQ - then I'd do it. Because I hate Valindras. I LOATH IT. Right now if there are 3 of us we will get together and click all of the buttons of what we'd be willing to do then pug in (or three man who knows).

    We do not choose VT ever because A) we don't like it and B) it has the worst loot in the game.

    eLoL at least gives overloads and is a fun dungeon
    eToS, eCC and eGWD only have one chest but drop better loot, and you walk away with more salvage.

    Now if I could open that VT chest or the eLoL or MC chest for free because I chose to ERQ and carry a bunch of people through (who no doubt will open all the mimics, run into the adventuring group and at least one will run ahead and die every 30 seconds) I want loot.

    Here is the thing - I don't make keys for your dungeons other than FBI since the key change. I won't. I only make the FBI key because as soon as I finish an FBI I can make another key. You let me open that other box for free if I ERQ - I'll probably do one. Otherwise I'll just continue to private queue with my friends and just work off of the salvage.
    Founding Member of "Wrong Side of the Stronghold"
    Ravenskya - TR / Krisha Chaos - OP / Waffles - GF / Dex Domitor - HR
    Becky the trendy GWF - GWF / Too Toasty - SW / Falcor - DC / Morrigan - CW / Sir Didymus - OP

  • mordekai#1901 mordekai Posts: 1,376Member Arc User
    So... let me get this right.

    In addition to getting RAD that those L70s who can't join ERQ won't... you also want them to use keys while those above 11K, with FBI and MSP don't need to?

    Hmm...

    Not sure I agree with that so much.
  • plasticbatplasticbat Posts: 5,931Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    edited October 2017
    ravenskya said:


    We do not choose VT ever because A) we don't like it and B) it has the worst loot in the game.

    I am missing something. VT has one of best loot in T1 and T2. You don't like to play VT. I get it.

    There are 2 chests in the end. If you have both keys, you will get at least 2 gears. If you are lucky, you can get 4 from the chest. You can get gear from Boss too. In addition, you can get some rare drop too. I think I got a blue mount recently. I remember that one because I solo it but in the end I need to get a friend in to help me to deal with the hand ("you are going nowhere"). :(

    I guess the big question is: why don't you have keys?

    If you are talking about the common dungeon keys, I guess you don't have VIP.
    If you are talking about the VT keys, it is more or less the easiest and the cheapest one to make. You just need to make one per day and you don't have to consume it right the way. Just accumulating the keys. People I know have excessive amount of VT keys. The toons I seldom play have over 50. We even have one of those 10 VT quick run once a while to spend some VT keys. My toon have so many VT keys that I stop making them for a long while.

    I did a check and found someone reported:

    VT standard chest (not VT key) netted me a Cave Bear companion Epic (purple) BoE

    ("That is impressive")
  • preechr#2215 preechr Posts: 488Member Arc User
    I believe VT has the highest drop rate for Cambion Magus
  • ravenskyaravenskya Posts: 1,887Member Arc User

    ravenskya said:


    We do not choose VT ever because A) we don't like it and B) it has the worst loot in the game.

    I am missing something. VT has one of best loot in T1 and T2. You don't like to play VT. I get it.

    There are 2 chests in the end. If you have both keys, you will get at least 2 gears. If you are lucky, you can get 4 from the chest. You can get gear from Boss too. In addition, you can get some rare drop too. I think I got a blue mount recently. I remember that one because I solo it but in the end I need to get a friend in to help me to deal with the hand ("you are going nowhere"). :(

    I guess the big question is: why don't you have keys?

    If you are talking about the common dungeon keys, I guess you don't have VIP.
    If you are talking about the VT keys, it is more or less the easiest and the cheapest one to make. You just need to make one per day and you don't have to consume it right the way. Just accumulating the keys. People I know have excessive amount of VT keys. The toons I seldom play have over 50. We even have one of those 10 VT quick run once a while to spend some VT keys. My toon have so many VT keys that I stop making them for a long while.

    I did a check and found someone reported:

    VT standard chest (not VT key) netted me a Cave Bear companion Epic (purple) BoE

    ("That is impressive")
    I tracked (and posted as I was going) the loot drops that I got from 100 dungeons.

    The one that had the highest AD rate was obviously CN followed by EToS

    VT averaged dropping - 0 AD value from bosses, one piece of alliance gear from the chest and some seals.

    I do have VIP, and I do open that chest in every dungeon - I'm talking about the dungeon specific keys, I won't make them except for CN, FBI and eventually ToNG.

    NOTHING has dropped from those extra chests for me to make it worth my time to open them in VT, MC, or eLoL. Since it's not worth my time for the extra 2k AD I'm not going to farm for 10 min to make a key when I can run a full eToS in less than it takes to farm for a key in VT and get 6-10K AD.

    I just can't understand why I keep hearing that VT is the go to - it only has 2 bosses, neither of which drops anything with any regularity. And after running and tracking it 100 times on an excel spread sheet - it had the lowest AD value and the lowest drop rate of "non-standard" drops.

    By the way - the highest drop rate of non-standard drops was eSoT, though those are all BtC unfortunately.
    Founding Member of "Wrong Side of the Stronghold"
    Ravenskya - TR / Krisha Chaos - OP / Waffles - GF / Dex Domitor - HR
    Becky the trendy GWF - GWF / Too Toasty - SW / Falcor - DC / Morrigan - CW / Sir Didymus - OP

  • plasticbatplasticbat Posts: 5,931Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    edited October 2017
    ravenskya said:

    ravenskya said:


    We do not choose VT ever because A) we don't like it and B) it has the worst loot in the game.

    I am missing something. VT has one of best loot in T1 and T2. You don't like to play VT. I get it.

    There are 2 chests in the end. If you have both keys, you will get at least 2 gears. If you are lucky, you can get 4 from the chest. You can get gear from Boss too. In addition, you can get some rare drop too. I think I got a blue mount recently. I remember that one because I solo it but in the end I need to get a friend in to help me to deal with the hand ("you are going nowhere"). :(

    I guess the big question is: why don't you have keys?

    If you are talking about the common dungeon keys, I guess you don't have VIP.
    If you are talking about the VT keys, it is more or less the easiest and the cheapest one to make. You just need to make one per day and you don't have to consume it right the way. Just accumulating the keys. People I know have excessive amount of VT keys. The toons I seldom play have over 50. We even have one of those 10 VT quick run once a while to spend some VT keys. My toon have so many VT keys that I stop making them for a long while.

    I did a check and found someone reported:

    VT standard chest (not VT key) netted me a Cave Bear companion Epic (purple) BoE

    ("That is impressive")
    I tracked (and posted as I was going) the loot drops that I got from 100 dungeons.

    The one that had the highest AD rate was obviously CN followed by EToS

    VT averaged dropping - 0 AD value from bosses, one piece of alliance gear from the chest and some seals.

    I do have VIP, and I do open that chest in every dungeon - I'm talking about the dungeon specific keys, I won't make them except for CN, FBI and eventually ToNG.

    NOTHING has dropped from those extra chests for me to make it worth my time to open them in VT, MC, or eLoL. Since it's not worth my time for the extra 2k AD I'm not going to farm for 10 min to make a key when I can run a full eToS in less than it takes to farm for a key in VT and get 6-10K AD.

    I just can't understand why I keep hearing that VT is the go to - it only has 2 bosses, neither of which drops anything with any regularity. And after running and tracking it 100 times on an excel spread sheet - it had the lowest AD value and the lowest drop rate of "non-standard" drops.

    By the way - the highest drop rate of non-standard drops was eSoT, though those are all BtC unfortunately.
    When did you do the tracking? The loot table was changed.
  • ravenskyaravenskya Posts: 1,887Member Arc User

    ravenskya said:

    ravenskya said:


    We do not choose VT ever because A) we don't like it and B) it has the worst loot in the game.

    I am missing something. VT has one of best loot in T1 and T2. You don't like to play VT. I get it.

    There are 2 chests in the end. If you have both keys, you will get at least 2 gears. If you are lucky, you can get 4 from the chest. You can get gear from Boss too. In addition, you can get some rare drop too. I think I got a blue mount recently. I remember that one because I solo it but in the end I need to get a friend in to help me to deal with the hand ("you are going nowhere"). :(

    I guess the big question is: why don't you have keys?

    If you are talking about the common dungeon keys, I guess you don't have VIP.
    If you are talking about the VT keys, it is more or less the easiest and the cheapest one to make. You just need to make one per day and you don't have to consume it right the way. Just accumulating the keys. People I know have excessive amount of VT keys. The toons I seldom play have over 50. We even have one of those 10 VT quick run once a while to spend some VT keys. My toon have so many VT keys that I stop making them for a long while.

    I did a check and found someone reported:

    VT standard chest (not VT key) netted me a Cave Bear companion Epic (purple) BoE

    ("That is impressive")
    I tracked (and posted as I was going) the loot drops that I got from 100 dungeons.

    The one that had the highest AD rate was obviously CN followed by EToS

    VT averaged dropping - 0 AD value from bosses, one piece of alliance gear from the chest and some seals.

    I do have VIP, and I do open that chest in every dungeon - I'm talking about the dungeon specific keys, I won't make them except for CN, FBI and eventually ToNG.

    NOTHING has dropped from those extra chests for me to make it worth my time to open them in VT, MC, or eLoL. Since it's not worth my time for the extra 2k AD I'm not going to farm for 10 min to make a key when I can run a full eToS in less than it takes to farm for a key in VT and get 6-10K AD.

    I just can't understand why I keep hearing that VT is the go to - it only has 2 bosses, neither of which drops anything with any regularity. And after running and tracking it 100 times on an excel spread sheet - it had the lowest AD value and the lowest drop rate of "non-standard" drops.

    By the way - the highest drop rate of non-standard drops was eSoT, though those are all BtC unfortunately.
    When did you do the tracking? The loot table was changed.
    Tracking was done May-June of this year. Since then I have run VT only for the dungeon shards for my guild and still have not seen any change in the loot.

    I occasionally do the Weekly in DR, however I use that to make vouchers for the guild since that seems to make more sense than opening a junk chest.
    Founding Member of "Wrong Side of the Stronghold"
    Ravenskya - TR / Krisha Chaos - OP / Waffles - GF / Dex Domitor - HR
    Becky the trendy GWF - GWF / Too Toasty - SW / Falcor - DC / Morrigan - CW / Sir Didymus - OP

  • obsidiancran3obsidiancran3 Posts: 1,823Member Arc User


    Now: people does 2 Epic dungeons of their choice (e.g. ETOS) to get daily AD + seal + salvage.
    Future: people will do 1 (10 minutes) LRQ to get daily AD + 2 Epic dungeons of their choice (e.g. ETOS) to get seal + salvage.

    So, the difference is that 10 minutes. They do 2 Epic dungeon now and can do 2 Epic dungeon in the future. There is no ERQ in this picture.

    Basically, we are talking about that 10 minutes. I am not saying that 10 minutes is not important. If you have only 30 minutes to play, that 10 minutes means 1/3 of the time. However, if you have only 30 minutes to play, for sure, you should not do ERQ.

    For me the comparison is this: 10 minutes for Levelling Dungeon vs 10 minutes for eToS. Which one is a better use of my time right now?
    In eToS with 1 reasonable dps I can carry up to 3 new 70s through the dungeon for that 10 minute run, so not only do I get what I want, but I help up to 3 people out in a short time.

    Under the new system we are all in an LRQ and there is no need to do the eDungeons except to fish for gear, and Chult hunts largely kill the need to fish for gear if you can get a toon in there....

    So not only no reason to do ERQ, but also no reason to do eDungeon....

    That seems counter productive...

    But must preserve the Seals of the Brave!
    Obsidian Moonlight - Paladin
    Obsidian Oath - Warlock
    A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
  • plasticbatplasticbat Posts: 5,931Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    edited October 2017


    Now: people does 2 Epic dungeons of their choice (e.g. ETOS) to get daily AD + seal + salvage.
    Future: people will do 1 (10 minutes) LRQ to get daily AD + 2 Epic dungeons of their choice (e.g. ETOS) to get seal + salvage.

    So, the difference is that 10 minutes. They do 2 Epic dungeon now and can do 2 Epic dungeon in the future. There is no ERQ in this picture.

    Basically, we are talking about that 10 minutes. I am not saying that 10 minutes is not important. If you have only 30 minutes to play, that 10 minutes means 1/3 of the time. However, if you have only 30 minutes to play, for sure, you should not do ERQ.

    For me the comparison is this: 10 minutes for Levelling Dungeon vs 10 minutes for eToS. Which one is a better use of my time right now?
    In eToS with 1 reasonable dps I can carry up to 3 new 70s through the dungeon for that 10 minute run, so not only do I get what I want, but I help up to 3 people out in a short time.

    Under the new system we are all in an LRQ and there is no need to do the eDungeons except to fish for gear, and Chult hunts largely kill the need to fish for gear if you can get a toon in there....

    So not only no reason to do ERQ, but also no reason to do eDungeon....

    That seems counter productive...

    But must preserve the Seals of the Brave!
    Which one is better? The answer was obvious in my post. In order to get the same thing as today, you will lose 10 minutes.
    You have reason to do epic dungeon. It is to match the same thing you get today without losing AD. There are salvage items from the Epic dungeons. The AD earning from salvage items can be higher than the AD from dungeon itself today.

    For most people, the today AD total earning is: AD from dungeon + AD from salvage items + AD from salvaging seal items.
  • mordekai#1901 mordekai Posts: 1,376Member Arc User
    So a question for those people saying that you can get "as much" RAD from a leveling dungeon under RQ as you do now... in fact more.

    "Are those people who are allowed into ERQ allowed to do a random leveling dungeon for RAD as well as the epic random queue for RAD?"

    Because if the answer is "Yes... they are." it doesn't matter that you can get more than you do now, because the economy of earning RAD will shift. This means that in real terms it will go down for thoe who aren't able to earn from the ERQ.

    It's like how in real life a pay rise below the rate of inflation is actually a decrease in income. Politicians and people who don't understand economics will say things like, "Woohoo... you are better off! Stop moaning."

    Usually these are the people who got a pay rise ABOVE the rate of inflation and stand to benefit, so their condescension makes it even more annoying to the people hit by the problem.
  • ladypeanut66ladypeanut66 Posts: 78Member Arc User

    So a question for those people saying that you can get "as much" RAD from a leveling dungeon under RQ as you do now... in fact more.

    "Are those people who are allowed into ERQ allowed to do a random leveling dungeon for RAD as well as the epic random queue for RAD?"

    Because if the answer is "Yes... they are." it doesn't matter that you can get more than you do now, because the economy of earning RAD will shift. This means that in real terms it will go down for thoe who aren't able to earn from the ERQ.

    It's like how in real life a pay rise below the rate of inflation is actually a decrease in income. Politicians and people who don't understand economics will say things like, "Woohoo... you are better off! Stop moaning."

    Usually these are the people who got a pay rise ABOVE the rate of inflation and stand to benefit, so their condescension makes it even more annoying to the people hit by the problem.

    The thing is you get RAD for the first completion of the day of every queue. That means: Leveling RQ, Epic RQ, Skirmish RQ, Trials RQ, and the first PvP match (winning, iirc) of the day. I don't know if I have missed any queue, but you get the idea, right? So you get ~8k RAD from the Leveling RQ, be your level 12 or 16k IL, does not matter.
  • plasticbatplasticbat Posts: 5,931Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    edited October 2017

    So a question for those people saying that you can get "as much" RAD from a leveling dungeon under RQ as you do now... in fact more.

    "Are those people who are allowed into ERQ allowed to do a random leveling dungeon for RAD as well as the epic random queue for RAD?"

    Because if the answer is "Yes... they are." it doesn't matter that you can get more than you do now, because the economy of earning RAD will shift. This means that in real terms it will go down for thoe who aren't able to earn from the ERQ.

    It's like how in real life a pay rise below the rate of inflation is actually a decrease in income. Politicians and people who don't understand economics will say things like, "Woohoo... you are better off! Stop moaning."

    Usually these are the people who got a pay rise ABOVE the rate of inflation and stand to benefit, so their condescension makes it even more annoying to the people hit by the problem.

    "Are those people who are allowed into ERQ allowed to do a random leveling dungeon for RAD as well as the epic random queue for RAD?"

    Ths answer is no.

    You can get a 'fixed' big chunk of RAD from the very first RQ. If you run LRQ first, you won't get that from ERQ (or any dungeon RQ). If you run ERQ first, you won't get that from LRQ (or any dungeon RQ). You can continue to run dungeon RQ to get a little bit more AD but it does not matter which one (ERQ or LRQ) you want to run.

    e.g. If you run 1 LRQ first, you get 17K AD and then, you run ERQ, you won't get another 17K from ERQ.
    If you run 1 ERQ first, you get 17K AD and then you run LRQ, you won't get another 17K from LRQ.
    You won't get 34K by running both.
  • revy#5560 revy Posts: 3Member Arc User
    Please correct me if I'm wrong: As soon as module 12b comes life, we will only be able to farm ADs via random queues?
  • plasticbatplasticbat Posts: 5,931Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    edited October 2017
    revy#5560 said:

    Please correct me if I'm wrong: As soon as module 12b comes life, we will only be able to farm ADs via random queues?

    In terms of the RAD that you can receive from dungeon, skirmish directly, yes. You need to do RQ.
    There are other places that you can get RAD such as salvage, weekly quests, XP reward, etc. Those stay the same.
  • revy#5560 revy Posts: 3Member Arc User

    In terms of the RAD that you can receive from dungeon, skirmish directly, yes. You need to to RQ.
    There are other places that you can get RAD such as salvage, weekly quests, XP reward, etc. Those stay the same.

    Great -.- another stupid idea. Makes me regret paying real money for this. Dunno how long I will keep playing, but definitely not buy any more Zen from now. Not going to fund this any longer.
  • namelesshero347namelesshero347 Posts: 1,887Member Arc User
    edited October 2017
    Today I do two eToS for close to 17K. And I have more than enough salvage and seals from the two runs to hit 36K. So if I ERQ and get a T2, I will get the 17K. And with the salvage and seals, I should be close to 36K. I can direct queue eToS every two or three days to get some salvage and seals to fill in.

    With multiple alts, the leavers penalty is almost meaningless. Seems I should ERQ and leave if you don't get a T2. I'll do a LRQ if I get to my last alt and the first one is still in the penalty box.
This discussion has been closed.