Remove the overwrite with current loudout please

agenty0rk

Just lost a loadout because apparently there is a button you can press to overwrite a loadout with the current loadout. Why is this an option? Absolutely no one would ever want two copies of the same loadout. And if they were testing the would just respect the other one rather than copy one to the other and then respec the original. Seriously please remove this option from loadouts.

<font color="orange">Mod note: Removed all caps from subject title.</font>

armadeonx

I agree, it's a nonsensical option. It serves no positive purpose.

midnightlight

We felt this was a useful feature for those who wanted a duplicate loadout in which they would only change gear and slotted powers. This would be faster than starting from scratch for players who have all possible power points and want the same boons for multiple loadouts.

I would argue that to accidently duplicate over a loadout you would have to go into the manage Loadouts window, select Overwrite with Current and then select OK in the pop-up.

However I would love to hear more feedback on this. We could:
1. Add the further safety measure of requiring players to type "Replace" in the pop-up.
2. Move it to a button on the bottom of the window (making it harder to press Y accidently).
3. Take the option out entirely if it is indeed a feature no one uses it.

Edit: Added another possible solution.

beckylunatic

@midnightlight#2361

Loadouts haven't proved to be particularly useful for a fast power swap because there aren't enough places where you can easily switch back. If you change your loadout for a boss fight, you have to kill yourself to go back to the campfire before the boss to switch back to your mob-clearing build. It's still more convenient to drag in different powers to swap them, because that much you can do on the fly.

They also aren't used for gear swapping as much as I think players might have wanted because you need to maintain multiple sets of enchants for that. Anyone going to the trouble of changing their gear and enchants situationally is probably also changing the guts of their build at least slightly. Companions and mounts being excluded (I get that this a logistical limitation rather than something purposely left out) also limits the practical uses for changing loadout without changing the core of your build. We can't easily make things like a loadout for XP gain or a loadout for farming Voninblod because we can't change it between that and one for fighting while we're actively adventuring.

I use loadouts to completely change paragons, or at least boons and feats between offense/defense/buff/PvP builds, so while I haven't made any mistakes with the copy feature, I'm not using it either. I don't have strong feelings about it, but I can see where people are coming from.

midnightlight

Thanks @beckylunatic !

Some of the systems you mentioned which are not currently included in loadouts may be added in the future. (Depending on future decisions and programming time.) If they were included would you be more likely to use the Overwrite with Current option?

If accidentally saving over a loadout is not an issue for the majority of people I would prefer to keep it in and make it more "difficult" to access (options 1 & 2 in my earlier comment) than have it requested in the future if the loadout system has additions which make the option more helpful.

dairyzeus

I agree completely with becky.

I was planning on having a "farming" loadout so I could run dailies and heroics without consuming vonin blood, but the hassle of having to find a campfire when I want to switch turned out to be a bigger issue than just swapping 4 pieces of gear.

Thus, now if I set up a loadout it's always for a specific type of fight (aoe vs single vs mixed) which involves different feats, or a complete paragon switch.

dairyzeus

midnightlight#2361 said:

Thanks @beckylunatic !

Some of the systems you mentioned which are not currently included in loadouts may be added in the future. (Depending on future decisions and programming time.) If they were included would you be more likely to use the Overwrite with Current option?

If accidentally saving over a loadout is not an issue for the majority of people I would prefer to keep it in and make it more "difficult" to access (options 1 & 2 in my earlier comment) than have it requested in the future if the loadout system has additions which make the option more helpful.

@midnightlight#2361

I really think its the "looking for a campfire" issue that makes the overwrite less useful. If it were possible to swap loadouts any time you were out of combat I could see creating duplicate loadouts for gear or power hot swapping.


That being said I don't see a reason to remove the functionality entirely at this point. I'm a fan of option 1. Any time a pop up making me type discard appears it gives me enough time double check what I'm actually doing. A similar system for replace makes a lot of sense.

zebular

I only use loadouts to change my paragon path. I've already accidentally lost a paragon respec twice because of the button to replace a loadout. I really do not see the need for this button, for if someone want's a duplicate loadout and only change gear/powers, they can just take a few more minutes to pick the same setup as their other build. In this case, the button only saves a player a few minutes and in my opinion is more troublesome than it is worth. I suggest to either remove it or make it difficult to accidentally use.

beckylunatic

midnightlight#2361 said:

If they were included would you be more likely to use the Overwrite with Current option?

I'm still not sure I would, simply because of the campfire limitation. I'm having trouble thinking of scenarios where I'd want to use a loadout for a quick change instead of just switching powers or equipment manually. But this could change because someone cleverer than me might come up with a really good way of making use of the feature.

That said, I always prefer to be inclusive and not remove any type of game feature if some players use it. Decisions to remove things that I like when I'm in the minority make me sad. I prefer to find a solution that accommodates everyone, so I think an additional check would be best.

While we're talking loadouts, I have a minor frustration with quick slot items. Gear upgrades can be applied to all loadouts with a single menu option. I've been making extensive use of this feature recently, but I'm also upgrading healing potions to the newest type and that option doesn't exist for quick slots. This means that I have to apply the new potions to all loadouts manually, or the game has a little tantrum on switching because it can't find the old potions I no longer own. It's not a big deal but if "apply to all loadouts" can be added to the content menu for quick slot items, that would be nice.

dupeks

midnightlight#2361 said:

Thanks @beckylunatic !

Some of the systems you mentioned which are not currently included in loadouts may be added in the future. (Depending on future decisions and programming time.) If they were included would you be more likely to use the Overwrite with Current option?

If accidentally saving over a loadout is not an issue for the majority of people I would prefer to keep it in and make it more "difficult" to access (options 1 & 2 in my earlier comment) than have it requested in the future if the loadout system has additions which make the option more helpful.

Completely agree with all of what Becky said in her previous post. I've also lost a respec due to the copy function (thankfully only one), and can't imagine wanting to use a loadout to just swap powers and gear unless a LOT of changes happen.

Like was said, if enchants, pets, insignia, and artifact powers get added to the loadouts and if loadouts become more manageable to change back after boss fights (this is a big annoyance and hurdle), then I might see building out different gear-and-power loadouts. But that's a lot of changes needed to make something marginally more convenient than just going in and swapping powers through the power UI and gear with the gear UI.

To be frank, I think I would be much more excited for the possibility of adding in some of those additional systems just to make the experience of changing paragons or builds even more complete (right now have to manually swap out insignia, pets, artifact powers, and enchants... which limits how different your builds can actually be and still be viable to switch between).

I think that the option to copy power points only would be well received, but would really be solving a different issue (namely, leveling up the powers 1 blip at a time is unbelievably tedious).

I think making it more difficult to accidentally overwrite is a good step, because it's way too easy to do this accidentally as it stands. But again, I can't honestly say I know a single person who has intentionally used the copy functionality, nor would I feel good recommending to anyone that as a good use for a loadout slot.

Edit: My vote is Option 3 because I think that the risk of having a novice player "waste" a loadout is pretty high for virtually zero upside (someone said above it would take just a couple minutes longer to set up a loadout and that's exactly right). But if there is appetite for keeping the feature, then definitely Option 1 to make it painfully obvious to the user that they are about to overwrite an existing loadout.

dupeks

beckylunatic said:

I'm still not sure I would, simply because of the campfire limitation. I'm having trouble thinking of scenarios where I'd want to use a loadout for a quick change instead of just switching powers or equipment manually.

Campfire limitation is a real hurdle to hot-swapping.

The only one that comes to my mind is a +XP loadout for turning in quests, slotted with Azures and XP guild boon... which we can already accomplish apart from the guild boon.

Even if swapping back and forth was seamless (perhaps available at portable altars), hot swapping gear and powers without swapping boons and feats is just a really rare use case (I can't think of a single situation on DC, OP, CW, GWF, or GF where I'd want to swap gear and powers but not also boons).

For swapping powers manually, it's just 2-6 clicks depending on which powers (and you're not usually swapping out everything, just 1-2 and maybe rearranging them).

For swapping gear? Maybe once the gear becomes a little bit more diversified... But in it's current state gear is content-dependent (SKT vs. not) rather than situation-dependent (boss vs. mobs). Which doesn't make sense to use loadouts (do you create SKT-specific loadouts? again that seems like a poor use of a limited number of loadout slots).

beckylunatic

dupeks said:

I think that the option to copy power points only would be well received, but would really be solving a different issue (namely, leveling up the powers 1 blip at a time is unbelievably tedious).

Yes, this would be more easily solved by adding a "fill all powers" feature which increasingly more players are asking for as more and more of us get enough points one way or another. Now that you can outright buy power points, having enough points to fill all powers is more accessible than ever. (Related, increasing complaints that the character button on the HUD is lit up forever to notify you of unassigned power points which cannot be assigned.)

dupeks said:

I think making it more difficult to accidentally overwrite is a good step, because it's way too easy to do this accidentally as it stands. But again, I can't honestly say I know a single person who has intentionally used the copy functionality, nor would I feel good recommending to anyone that as a good use for a loadout slot.

I have to agree that there was no shortage of forum threads by users who were confused enough by this option that they used it incorrectly, and apparently more who made a copying mistake but didn't expressly come here to complain about it. Meanwhile, I'm not aware of anyone using it intentionally either.

micky1p00

I like the load-outs thing, it's a great feature, I was very excited about it, I got all 10 slots, but to be honest, reality struck:

1. It came out late, around/somewhat before the PvP NCL (many many mods ago, mod6 era) I've stopped PvPing because I needed a different spec, and each time I had to swap all my artifacts, and all my gear. Lodouts would have solved it perfectly. But now 6 mods forward, PvP is dead (for me at least).

2. What I want the most and do the most, loadouts don't help me with - I'm still changing power from power menu. Every boss I swap 1-2 encounters, and back. What I would love is just power/dailies/at-will/class-feature tray, click it/ bound key and everything that not on CD will be swapped.

3. Class limitation - As I've said, I bought all 10 slots, but maining TR, I have no much use for the other 9, I had some ideas, but the play style is different, the benefits are low, and I need a full set of gear. So no go.
For CW, OP it was much much more beneficial in that regard, as I now it's possible to swap MoF/SS builds and OP tank/heals.
So amazing for that.


At the end I think loadouts is a great thing, it has even more potential than utilized now. Imo, maybe consider:
1. Allow key shortcuts to the loadouts, so people can hotkey frequent loadouts they use (I'm on PC, we love keybinds, console players should watch and cry with envy and jealousy).
2. Remove the campfire limitation.

If there are some PvP considerations, a lodout can be locked in PvP or changable only at campfire in PVP maps.

This will allow much more utilization, even as swapping powers only, minor feats, or even fashion sets. Because it will be more accessible and easier.

Also to the topic, personally I don't like removing functionality, so imo adding some explanation and notification is better.
And in the spirit of that functionality I think a copy to the powers can be much more useful, I can understand if there is an issue with auto filling button for powers with the requirements for power ranks and sums.
But this can be an easy solution, it's already there, allow to copy the powers only. People who have the whole 124? points can copy it all, and those that miss some in any case will have the rank4 in what they need so they benefit from this as well (in any case, there is a small subset of useful powers, so copying will be great).
And this will both solve
https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter#/discussion/1233157/willing-to-sacrafice-a-goat-for-a-ui-button

Without the need for new functionality or coding, because it's already copying it as part of the discussed copy load-out button.

armadeonx

To me, the overwrite functionality is only applicable on an empty slot anyway - in that even a person who's going to use it to create a new build with the same feats but different powers is only going to use Overwrite once.

You're not often going to find a situation where a player wants to use it to overwrite an existing build - as such, it remaining available on a used slot is unnecessary.

It also strikes me as odd that if I create a very different build (feats/paragon path) that I have to buy a token to change it unless I want to change it to my other build - in which case it's one click.

Adding a typed confirmation would neutralise the potential for mistaken use so I'd be ok with that even if I don't see a reason for having it there after creating a build.

Personally I use loadouts for complete build changes - my DC switches between DO & AC and my Pally switches between Prot Group/Prot Solo/Devo Heals.

heraldfayez

I Play as a GWF and honestly the main things i wanted to change with loadouts aren't accesible when this feature came out i wanted to make a loadout for mob clearing with lightning as wep enchant+Steelblitz+WMS as artifact power (just an exemple) and probably different mount bonuses than for boss fights or even my bonding companion (a recent debate is on melee VS ranged and specially with platforms being a thing like MSp secondboss and Ras nisi in To9G but later i was struck that this would require a lot of investment that makes it not worth it at all because i'll have to invest in another weapon set+another set of enchantments for that same weapon set+manually change the artifact/mont bonuses each time and even companion and this costs a LOT of gold wich i don't see why not remove gold to take out enchantments

so just trying to say the feature in itself is awsome but for some classes it's absolutely useless only thing i can use it for i change between couple of feats that don't make a huge difference anyways
what i like to see added/changed to increase potential and use of this feature is
1) Remove campfire restriction (not to mention a lot of campfires in the game are bugged so you can't even use them to change exemple the camfire jsut before second boss in msp )
2)let us switch enchants/artifact power/mount bonuses/companions with loadouts

if these 2 at least could be implemented we can see a lot more use and potential to this awsome feature because as it stands only certain classes are having fun with it ^_^
i'm sure other players can come up with many great additions but that's honestly just my opinion

Thank You.

spelldazer

Please keep the feature. It saves me time. Typing REPLACE or Confirm or even just OK is acceptable. The pop up is what saves us from making a harsh mistake, not the length of the string we have to type. ;-)

scanix

Remove it or add a delay on confirmation like in other games where you need to hold X for a few seconds until the action is really performed. Typing some text in is probably too complicated and should only be used when deleting a character and such.
It is easy to accidentally do those things as there are too many useless confirmation dialogs in the game, so the player is used to press X twice to do stuff.
Until now I accidentally disposed stuff and spent ADs to end profession tasks (quite a few times).

midnightlight

Thank you all for your feedback! I'm leaning toward keeping the option but adding a typed confirmation, I prefer not to take functionality away. However we will come to a team consensus for the final decision.

I hear all your requests for more to be added to loadouts, the team is considering additions for the future.

whssem

I lost 2 of my loadouts to that button
my fingers sometimes twitch and i end up pressing several buttons for no reason..
having a "type to confirm" option like the one you get whenever you want to delete your character would be very helpful

dupeks

midnightlight#2361 said:

Thank you all for your feedback! I'm leaning toward keeping the option but adding a typed confirmation, I prefer not to take functionality away. However we will come to a team consensus for the final decision.

I hear all your requests for more to be added to loadouts, the team is considering additions for the future.

Thanks, I think that a confirmation prompt will be very helpful here.

Any chance you can share what additions are being considered? Or alternately, any additions that are too complex / difficult to be considered?

rockstargfu

I feel that having to type replace is ost practical to all sides. I lost over 1k zen to respecs from these feature.

meraks

midnightlight#2361 said:

Thank you all for your feedback! I'm leaning toward keeping the option but adding a typed confirmation, I prefer not to take functionality away. However we will come to a team consensus for the final decision.

I hear all your requests for more to be added to loadouts, the team is considering additions for the future.

Thank You.

someonedies

@midnightlight Loadouts [PC]: dropdown menu/button should be moved down
and Loadouts UI should be completely reworked.
Thank You

mordekai

Wouldn't it be a simple fix to grey out the copy option once a loadout has been used?
So if, like me, you think swapping the whole nature of a character is an affront to the ethos of Dungeons and Dragons and you simply want to copy the build and have a quick way to swap gear and powers for boss/mob (and really wish that companions and mounts factored into the whole business) etc you just copy and then amend, at which point, the copy button greys out. And for people who want a complete rebuild including paragon and whatever else, they can do that... and then the copy button greys out. So if you DO want to later change a loudout, either get another, or use a respec token?
Then, when using a respec token the copy button lights up again. Maybe with a couple of, "are you sure?" "no... really... are you SURE" chances to not burn the token.