Seducer: Alluring Guide to Scourge Warlock (Multi-Loadout Mod 11)

stathisjoestar

Seducer: Alluring Guide to Scourge Warlock

Part 1: Enter the Patron

Gather ‘round, fellow darkwalkers.

With the coming of the loadouts in Mod 11b, a new milestone is set for Neverwinter. Sharpen your pact blades and dust off your grimoires, for our cunning and allure is put to the test. Loadouts present to all classes the opportunity to explore and enjoy every aspect of their character; and Scourge Warlock is a rather versatile class that makes the whole ‘shifting through builds’ all the way more exciting!
I decided to make a series of notes and thoughts on what would be some good choices for loadouts. This is more to establish a groundwork for Warlocks’ options and preferences, rather than make it a guide that specifically calls you to run certain gear or teaches everything Warlock.

With no further ado, the two main and initial (free) loadouts will be:
(1) Hellbringer Fury, with the task of facing the hordes of mobs in dungeons, and
(2) Soulbinder Fury, ready to slay and melt down the dungeon boss.

There is “no subtlety here”, we’re here to do some serious DPS; the Warlock’s true nature is that of a Striker and Leader, that drains the life of his foes (for breakfast) and decimates anyone insolent and foolish enough to challenge him (sorry poor souls, but the Patron called and the rent is due!).
These two loadouts will cover the AoE and Single DPS aspect of the PvE. Personally, I plan to get 2 more loadouts to cover every feature I love about this class.

(3) Hellbringer Temptation curses his way through the fun, being our full-fledged Heal & Support build. Unlike our two previous Fury builds, that will skip supportive stuff and focus on personal DPS (for our Patron’s pleasure of course), Temptation will be an excellent healer/buffer that will do some decent and sinister damage.
(4) Hellbringer Fury PvP; every challenge is welcome and a PvP build should be included, as we’re set to hone our Warlock in every aspect of the game (you could make some other PvP build entirely, like Soulbinder or Temptation).

If I were to include more loadouts, I would fill my max 8 loadouts with: (5) Soulbinder Fury PvP, for which I would get a 2nd Off-hand with Borrowed Times and invest on Deflect for PvP, (6) Hellbringer Damnation, for having fun with the path and to unlock it as an option (7) a second Hellbringer Fury that will be a fast switch to Single damage (instead of its AoE damage-fest; especially for when I decide to bring some added support before a boss) and (8) a second Soulbinder Fury, again as an easy switch to AoE damage (instead of using it solely for Single damage). With the second set of Fury builds I would make minor tweaks to feats & boons as well.

I consider just the first 4 options to be essential, while the last 4 are only there as mere options that I may or may not include myself. I presented them anyway so you’ll have an archetype when going through your own choices.

stathisjoestar

Part 2: Gear

I largely leave the choice of gear up to each player, as it’s more about balancing your character overall and highlighting your preferred stats. Gear comes and goes, gather the pieces that you need the most; what matters more is making the most of it afterwards with all those options that are now presented.

As for the stats you know the drill: you need to reach (up to) 60% Resistance Ignored for PvE, and max your Critical Chance (I suggest going for 85-90%), then boost your Power all the way. For the defensive stats of your character, reinforce your HP pool or Life Steal, while at your summoned companion put Defense or Life Steal (mind what your Temptation loadout needs more). Our 2 vital Attributes are CON and CHA, offering us Damage & HP, Critical Chance & Combat Advantage respectively.

For PvP (may your Patron be with you) it’s debatable how much Armor Penetration will avail you (mainly by switching to Penetration stronghold boon and/or Penetration mount bonus). Prosperity insignias and high HP offer a lot of survivability, while going for Deflection (or a mix of HP and Deflection) may be the way for you (more so for Soulbinder). Honestly, certain game imbalances are rather apparent in PvP, and the Warlock is in a tough spot when compared to the competition; but one can only fail if he quits. Needless to say, reaching 2k Tenacity is a must; upgrading your PvP gear will help, especially since you’ll become sturdy enough to switch to Psion’s Shroud for added HP.

Weapon: I consider that the Relic weapon remains the best for Mod 11, followed closely by Aboleth. For our multi-build we’ll focus on having just 1 Main-hand (with a possibility of 2 Off-hands), so the key here is just to have your Weapon Damage up to the meta.
Main Hand effect: The 10% boost to Hellish Rebuke is the one we need, as at-wills account for an important portion of Hellbringer’s damage (and that’s 3 out of our 4 loadouts), while not so for Soulbinder.
Off-hand effect: All-Consuming Curse’s 5% Crit. Severity boost will be the one we’ll be using mostly. The debuffs from No Pity No Mercy and Flames of Empowerment are capped (one is bugged too), the Dust to Dust’s damage boost is exclusive to our one Soulbinder loadout (with whom we’ll be focusing on bosses anyway) and Prince of Hell’s DR boost won’t be accessed by our two DPS PvE loadouts.

Armor: As of Mod 11, having 3 Relic pieces offers the most, due to the whooping 10% damage boost it provides. Choosing your stats to go and whether you’ll proceed to a new armor or skip, is left up to you in this guide. However, Psion’s Shroud is advised both for PvP and for PvE (for Temptation loadout and for Aura of Courage buff).

Weapon Enchantment: The staple here is Vorpal for Hellbringer, Dread for Soulbinder and Feytouched for PvP.
However, having 2 (or even 3) sets of weapons is something costly/time-consuming that will take a toll on your time, effort and resources (since new weapons will appear eventually). Noting that this is a budget multi-build and going for more sets of weapons and WEs is not advised. My opinion is that all 3 enchants are viable. (I won’t mention other WEs since Warlocks don’t get as much benefitted by the rest of them, and also for this multi-build we need 1 WE that will fit for all of our loadouts.)

For starters, Vorpal is convenient for granting 50% Crit. Severity universally – boosting our DPS significantly in our main builds (HB Fury, SB Fury, Temptation & PvP Fury).

Next on the list, is Dread, which is a favourite for Soulbinders, since their damage is based greatly on encounters. Mind you, it won’t be lackluster for our Hellbringer, as our main playstyle will focus on killing the mobs with Hellbringer (2-4 encounters for each mob group; won’t be able to land many Hellish Rebukes) and slaying the bosses with Soulbinder. Thus, Dread enchant fits both Hellbringer and Soulbinder amazingly, since this is a versatile multi-build.

Last but not least, there is the Feytouched, granting superior damage and survivability in PvP. But that is not all it does! For the Hellbringer PvE part it does a good job of buffing our Pillar of Power (unlike the staple Vorpal) and providing adequate damage in general; while for the Soulbinder PvE part it is crucial for proccing lots of Soul Sparks when Hadar’s Grasp crits on bosses. Not to mention that our Temptation build will treasure greatly its compelling debuff on enemies’ damage.

While I suggest any of the 3 enchants, my go-to for this playstyle seems to be no other than Feytouched, fulfilling its role proudly for all 4 loadouts.
Edit: Feytouched has an important bug with Hellbringer's Pillar of Power.

Armor Enchantment: Lesser Soulforged will do for PvE (you don’t want to waste time upon a death – especially from a tough hit that got you; and Negation enchant works with stacks). For PvP, I suggest T. Shadowclad (otherwise settle with Negation).

Artifact and Artifact set: For your Primary Artifact go for Sigil of the Devoted (to always have a Daily ready through mob groups; for Hellbringer Fury) or Wheel of Elements (for the 30% damage boost, mainly during the boss fight; for Soulbinder Fury). During PvP, Oghma’s Token of Free Movement is a life-saver, otherwise stick with Wheel of Elements for the heal.

I don’t consider the Orcus set much of a breakthrough, as enemies die rather fast to make the most of its rising buff, and it also derails our stats/attributes. Cloak of Black Ice and Greater Belt of Black Ice make up for it with a constant flow of AP, constant damage boost through suitable attributes and nice DPS stats (the Black Ice Beholder artifact will not be needed). Alternatively, you can use a Greater Plated Band of Constitution and/or one of the new masterwork cloaks (Budget build? No, I said nothing about a budget build... moving on!) that will boost our attributes further.

Companions: For your summoned companion, diversity is certainly good. Apparently, our best options dps-wise are the Sellsword (3 offense slots, 10% uncapped Debuff for the whole party, plus more fitting when with Temptation) and the Fire Archon (3 offence slots, personal damage-boosting active bonus, 2 ring slots that are easier to fill in with something good, plus it fights in mid-range distance).

For your 4 active companions get your hands on: the Earth Archon and Air Archon, the Owlbear Cub (a must-have for Hellbringer), the Siege Master or the Erinyes of Belial.

Mounts:
PvE: Protector’s Camaraderie, Protector’s Friendship, Artificer’s Persuasion, Assassin’s Covenant, Gladiator’s Guile
PvP: Oppressor’s Reprieve, Survivor’s Blessing, Vampire’s Craving, Champion’s Return, Gladiator’s Guile (or Victim’s Preservation/Barbarian’s Revelry)

stathisjoestar

Part 3: Builds

1) Hellbringer Fury (AoE damage)

Feats:


Boons:

Powers:
AoE:
-> Arms of Hadar, Pillar of Power, Fiery Bolt (or Killing Flames)
-> All-Consuming Curse and No Pity No Mercy (or Shadow Walk)
-> Hellish Rebuke (and Dark Spiral Aura)
-> Tyrannical Curse and Accursed Souls (or Gates of Hell)

Single:
-> Arms of Hadar, Pillar of Power, Killing Flames (or Hadar's Grasp)
-> Flames of Empowerment and All-Consuming Curse (or No Pity No Mercy)
-> Hellish Rebuke (and Dark Spiral Aura)
-> Tyrannical Curse and Flames of Phlegethos (or Brood of Hadar)

2) Soulbinder Fury (Single damage)

Feats:


Boons:

Powers:
AoE:
-> Arms of Hadar, Fiery Bolt, Killing Flames (or Blades of Vanquished Armies/Cursed Bite)
-> All-Consuming Curse and Shadow Walk (or Dust to Dust)
-> Essence Defiler (and Dark Spiral Aura)
-> Tyrannical Curse and Accursed Souls

Single:
-> Hadar’s Grasp, Soul Scorch, Killing Flames (or Blades of Vanquished Armies/Warlock's Bargain)
-> All-Consuming Curse and Shadow Walk (or Borrowed Time/Warding Curse)
-> Essence Defiler (and Dark Spiral Aura)
-> Immolation Spirits and Brood of Hadar (or Tyrannical Curse)

stathisjoestar

3) Hellbringer Temptation (Heal/Support)

Feats:


Boons:

Powers:
AoE:
-> Blades of Vanquished Armies, Pillar of Power, Arms of Hadar (or Dreadtheft)
-> Shadow Walk and Dark One’s Blessing (or All-Consuming Curse)
-> Hellish Rebuke (and Hand of Blight)
-> Tyrannical Curse and Gates of Hell (or Accursed Souls)

Single:
-> Blades of Vanquished Armies, Pillar of Power, Dreadtheft (or Warlock’s Bargain/Killing Flames)
-> Flames of Empowerment and Prince of Hell (or Shadow Walk/Warding Curse)
-> Hellish Rebuke and Hand of Blight
-> Tyrannical Curse and Flames of Phlegethos

4) Hellbringer Fury (PvP)

Feats:


Boons:

Powers:
-> Killing Flames, Pillar of Power, Warlock’s Bargain (or Blades of the Vanquished Armies/Hadar’s Grasp/Arms of Hadar)
-> Flames of Empowerment and Shadow Walk (or Dark Prayers/Prince of Hell/No Pity No Mercy)
-> Hellish Rebuke and Hand of Blight
-> Gates of Hell and Brood of Hadar (or Accursed Souls)

stathisjoestar

Part 4: Menacing closure

Closing with a panorama of my depraved and alluring warlock, Seducer. Hers is not the face of mercy. ^.^

Perchance, you’ll have fun by making the most of a mix with HB Fury, SB Fury, HB Temptation and PvP loadout as well.

Hope you’ll enjoy going through this thread! Any ideas, loadout builds or criticism is welcome, to add to the discussion of unraveling the full potential within our Scourge Warlocks.

May Tenebrous be with you upon the Shroud of Souls

and praise the Nine HAMSTERS!

stathisjoestar

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hadestemplar

You should definitely ask @zebular to pin your guide in Warlock guide list>

And also have question..
I play as temptation HB, and my gameplay is mostly for aoe.. I think templock can go AoE too, darkness feat provide survivability when using BoVa, combined with other templock feats it is good option to go Aoe while don't have high end gear/equipment.

So if happens you have some free time.. check this possible build.

p.s first picture is awesome.

stathisjoestar

You are right, BoVa's 25% deflection chance with Darkness's 10% damage reduction is a significant wall of defence, one cannot just skip it. BoVa is nice for AoE, I just can't decide which feat should be dropped here: Compounded Soul procs a lot for the party and Aura of Despair I think works (?), need to test it. What would you suggest me to leave out for Darkness ?

bloodyspamer said:

p.s first picture is awesome.

Thank you so muuuch ! ^^ Trying to make Valindra jealous.

hadestemplar

stathisjoestar said:

You are right, BoVa's 25% deflection chance with Darkness's 10% damage reduction is a significant wall of defence, one cannot just skip it. BoVa is nice for AoE, I just can't decide which feat should be dropped here: Compounded Soul procs a lot for the party and Aura of Despair I think works (?), need to test it. What would you suggest me to leave out for Darkness ?

p.s first picture is awesome.

Thank you so muuuch ! ^^

For testing you can skip compound souls.

here is my current feat build.





Also I didn't pick compound souls, because even I give them 5% of my max HP as temp HP> it will not protect them from hard hits.
Also I can see this feat useful only in mass fights.. Big heroic encounter,, Dragonflight, and even upcoming new Stronghold event..

If u want full Aoe, Also U can replace hellish condemnation, because it only give u 5% dmg reduction for single target when used hellish rebuke., and in AoE case it's not useful.

stathisjoestar

@bloodyspamer very solid advice, I'll sure test Darkness and I'll put it on the build (I'll check again Aura of Despair as well to be sure, cause I haven't played as Temptation on Live for long). Tough to decide on Hellish Condemnation or Compounded Soul, I appreciate you clearing this dilemma, need to see how my Tempation will go too. I'm hyped for Tuesday ;D

hadestemplar

stathisjoestar said:

@bloodyspamer very solid advice, I'll sure test Darkness and I'll put it on the build (I'll check again Aura of Despair as well to be sure, cause I haven't played as Temptation on Live for long). Tough to decide on Hellish Condemnation or Compounded Soul, I appreciate you clearing this dilemma, need to see how my Tempation will go too. I'm hyped for Tuesday ;D

I assume you play on PC platform.. So it would be nice to get you in friend list,, I gathering all active templocks in Game..
Also I need feedback from your side about templocks strong and weak sides from group supporters perspective. We all know that by dps templock is weak and it should not be stronger than damnation or furry..

loboguild

Aside from your excellent write-up, I'm having a hard time how people are going to be able to run multiple builds with loadouts. The different stats / companions / mounts / enchantments make it very hard to switch, or run all builds at decent efficiency. I think it's fair to point out that while you can use loadouts this way, it's not naturally supported by the system.​​

stathisjoestar

@bloodyspamer yeah I am on PC platform (haven't been much active honestly, and trying to keep up cause I was away, but now's the time for a comeback ), be sure to message me in-game ;D

@loboguild indeed not being able to switch companions, mounts (and insignias) and especially enchantments (as it costs Gold on top) is a deterrent for running more than one build. But loadouts are already more than what I was hoping for, so we should find ways to make more out of them as well. For many players this may be the way to go: Having 2 loadouts (of the same build) just to switch Powers fast (and a few boons/feats) between AoE and Single. Or a loadout for PvE and one for PvP. This guide has something for them too.

But going from Hellbringer to Soulbinder, from Fury to Temptation, from PvE to PvP, from AoE to Single; can a Warlock be that versatile and remain efficient at the same time? I do believe so! This guide presents a default build that offers 4 (more in fact) different playstyles... with nothing notable to sacrifice in order to be at top performance on each.

I think this is the perfect start for new Warlocks as well. This is something you'll want to build on, as it's budget-friendly and universal; and with minor changes it offers major thrills.
I made this guide with that in mind, to see Warlocks "rolling for initiative" (cryptic team trademark) with this new Module; and not only adapting to what the predicament calls for them to change to, but having a blast as well!

I'm curious what you would do with your 2 Warlock loadouts, as I posted this guide to see the community's opinion, preferences and builds. I certainly (and from more perspectives) want to learn how others will be changing minor gear from a loadout to another, and what improvements they would make to this default multi-build if they were to do something similar.

Any Warlock be sure to share what you'll be doing with your 2 loadouts and how you'll make it work together.
So let's see and learn! I bet we can achieve wonders

stathisjoestar

Small list of things I have not included (yet) on this guide:

1) Dragon Heart artifact: The Dragon Heart artifacts have synergy with the mount bonus Artificer's Persuasion. If you miss the target (and by 'miss' I mean that you will deliberately hit thin air) the artifact's cooldown drops down to 15 sec (down from 1 min when at Mythic). When using the artifact, you also proc Artificer's Persuasion for the next 15 sec; meaning you can keep the effect quite constantly. My personal choice would be Heart of the Blue Dragon for its stats.
Now with Artificer's Persuasion we would get 10% of our Power in Recovery and Movement (as well as reach closer to 12% in Stamina Gain/AP Gain). For a Power rating that is 40k, that would translate in 4k Recovery & Movement. The 10% Movement bonus (considering on top the 15% from Gladiator's Guile and 17,5% from Shadow Walk) and the ~15% cooldown (noting that Recovery has diminishing returns on high numbers) could avail us greatly, as sometimes all you need is some extra speed to reach the mobs faster and some added cooldown to land your rotations with no delay.
Alas, I will get my hands on a Dragon Heart artifact on the next 2x RP event, so any input by a Warlock who's been actively using Dragon Heart over Sigil of the Devoted during mob fights would be appreciated. ^^

2) Valhalla set: As you're building your character, you may need to have a seperate Artifact set, Rings and Shirt/Pants for PvP (instead of just Prestige armor/Psion's Shroud). Damage debuffs are not additive, but Valhalla set along with Feytouched and Pillar of Power (and Hand of Blight, Warding Curse, Ward overload) would make a difference. This is of course for the sake of specialising in PvP and could be useful for your PvP loadout & Temptation loadout.

3) Greater Everfrost Undercoat/Trousers: Again, you can keep your Gemmed Exquisite Elemental Shirt/Pants for some added offensive stats at your HB Fury & SB Fury loadouts. The Everfrost ones would be a nice addition as you progress, potentially for your Temptation loadout & your PvP loadout.

4) Bonding runestones: I didn't mention them, but obviously Bonding stones for your summoned companion are a high priority. With 3x Rank 12 Bondings and one companion (any of the 5 active companions) at Legendary rank, you will be provided with a total of 300% of your summoned companion's ratings; which is a major boost.

Hope you enjoy May 1st, cheers!

terrasight

Very nice guide... mainly what I've in plan to do...HB until Boss, SB on Bosses...

I want to suggest only a few things about hellbringer.

Instead of Arms I would use HG here together with KF on single and FB together with KF AoE.
And instead of Tyrannical Curse and Flames of Phlegethos on single I would use BoH only (with nice ap gain and DC sigil together with feats you can spam it).

And I run with ACC all the time and no NPNM...but thats personal.

And... WTF is THAT for a pact blade? I need it for transmute my one

stathisjoestar

@terrasight#2000
I've been changing between Brood of Hadar and Flames of Phlegethos, and certainly I'll include BoH on the HB Fury build. As you said, it's way faster at casting.
Personally, in PvE I stick with Phlegethos 'cause it has more damage. Though, it isn't just that it beats BoH by ~10% damage (that wouldn't be enough to justify Phlegethos interrupting your rotation with its casting).
Phlegethos also procs Creeping Death with all of its 21-22 DoT ticks. So you repeat 60% of all its damage ^.^ while BoH procs Creeping Death only once with just the first hit (and not for the Brood of Hadar Bite 30 DoT ticks). BoH's first hit is like 1/3 of its damage, with BoH Bite being 2/3 of its damage; so you miss plenty of Creeping Death procs.
Also, even though you'll miss a second to cast it, Phlegethos takes 5 seconds for its damage to complete, while BoH DoT lasts 9-10 seconds. Not that important, I just don't feel that I squeezed damage by using BoH instead of Phlegethos at a boss that will die in seconds; since BoH would need more time anyway (I see it as fast casting, but not as fast damage).

Hadar's Grasp and Killing Flames are very legit alternatives as well and I'll include them too, thanks for pointing them out!
The reason I use Arms of Hadar instead of those is personal playstyle: In AoE damage (before or after Pillar of Power) I use Arms of Hadar first (or Accursed Souls) to pass Lesser Curse on enemies with All-Consuming Curse, then hit them with Fiery Bolt and another Arms of Hadar. In single damage, I keep Arms of Hadar (for the sake of not changing all powers manually xD and also...) for its low cooldown, especially with help from Cleric's Hastening Light or Paladin's Aura of Wisdom.

Some other time I could add my personal playstyle in AoE and Single, just to explain my choices and rotation.

And... WTF is THAT for a pact blade? I need it for transmute my one

The weapon transmute is Pact Blade of Primal Fire ^.^ I had gotten it from a lair (with fire... if that helps xD I don't remember which). But! You can craft it with Artificing rank 20, it's the Pact Blade of Aryvandaar, and has the same appearance! Might cost around 20-30k AD, since it includes a Dragon Egg in crafting; be sure to check the Auction House too for it.

diloul31

Nice guide thanks.
I just like to add that imho, for a hellbringer, between a r8 dread or r8 vorpal, dread do a lot more damage.
Killing flames, fiery bolt and arms deals monster damage when used with dread...
40% extra severity on theses encounters power > 15% on all powers.
Off course if you recovery is close to zero, it makes less sense.

But indeed at r12, vorpal > dread for hellbringers.
I wanted to point that because these enchants are so pricey that many players (me included) still run a r8...

terrasight

Sure...personal playstyle is every time a point... I like spamming BoH

Pact Blade -> got it, thx

stathisjoestar

@diloul31
Trying to do the math on Vorpal and Dread, I'd say Vorpal gives us a ~28,5% damage increase (considering we have 100% crit. chance) and Dread a ~43% increase. Feytouched's 18% damage increase is comparable with Vorpal's ~28%, since Feytouched will provide us some added weapon damage and a slightly stronger Pillar of Power (doesn't buff the Owlbear Cub).

Someone planning to stick with Hellbringer the whole dungeon (both AoE and Single) should favor Vorpal over Dread, since he'll do a great deal of his damage with Hellish Rebuke and dailies. Feytouched would work just as good as Vorpal in that case.
Now, for someone planning to use Hellbringer only for AoE, and during the boss to switch to Soulbinder, Dread is more favorable. As you mentioned, the Hellbringer will be doing most of his damage with encounters and will need some extra burst. As Soulbinder he will be on his full potential with Dread as well, due to the ~43% increase on Soul Scorch.

All in all, and adding Feytouched's slight weapon damage percentage & Soul Spark procs w/ Hadar's Grasp to the "equation", both Feytouched and Dread would be closer in damage now, even for a Soulbinder during a boss fight.

Feytouched 18% + some weapon damage + plenty Soul Sparks OR Dread ~43% (applies to the encounter damage only)

(Both have nice debuffs. In this example we land critical and advantage hits.)

That's why I consider Feytouched as a superior choice for a multi-build, since it's more useful for my Temptation loadout as well, and especially for my PvP loadout. All 3 enchants are so good, and it's a tough choice; so more opinions along with actual results on Live will help us.

Tip: You can enjoy this build with Dread during PvE and if you seldom engage in PvP, then manually switch to Feytouched (costs Gold each time).

terrasight

Well, the switch between HB & SB depends on the situation I think...it'll be very interesting.

What I mean... SB needs more time then HB to unleash his full power. And in a strong group and for example msva, the parts of storvald/manticores are SO short, only a few seconds... I think THERE it will be better to stay full HB for me.

In FBI f.e., it's different...there I've enough time to switch before bosses.

schietindebux

I think those max buffer groups are not the average experience for most player to focus your build on it.
I stick with dread on SB because in most of the fights Hadar grasp+Feytouched sparkgain is not necessary that much.
I also run Feytouched as templock since the difference to vorp is not that much 18% vs 24% and the debuff is nice.
I monitored dps on single target as HB -Temp and experienced a significant better result by using Warlocks Bargain plus Killing flame vs. HG+KF and AoH+KF (I expected AoH to be far better...but it wasn´t).

stathisjoestar

Update on Temptation: As @bloodyspamer advised, I replaced Compounded Soul with Darkness feat, plus did 2 minor tweaks at Heroic feats.

I tested Aura of Despair and it was working properly for the Warlock and the allies.

@schietindebux
Thanks for the feedback on Dread-Feytouched! I'll sure check your Temptation rotation. I'll see if I could set is as: Warlock's Bargain (for the great constant DoT dps that will also keep the party and the Warlock at full life), Pillar of Power (excellent buff & debuff), Dreadtheft (added capped debuff if needed), possibly with Blades of Vanquished Armies (if extra tankiness is needed) and Killing Flames (strong hit/heal) as alternatives.

solbergx

ok now im confused i was trying to make a soul binder sw for pvp, but you show hellbringer and temptation can also be used for pvp. how do I chose the paragon?? I'm level 35 now

stathisjoestar

@solbergx
When you reach Level 30+, you just go to the "Powers" tab of your character sheet. You are prompted to choose among Hellbringer and Soulbinder before allocating any more power points. Characters that are Level 30+ like you are, unlock as well a second free loadout.

So, after you choose your Paragon at "Powers" (eg. Hellbringer), go to the "Character" tab of your character sheet and look at the upper left corner for the loadout drop-down. You are now at the 'Original' loadout, and whatever changes you are doing at Powers, Feats, Boons, Character are saved for this Loadout only as a unique setup (and seperate from loadout 'New 1').
With the drop-down, and while you're at Protector's enclave or a campfire, change to the 'New 1' loadout. Now you can go to "Powers" tab and choose your Paragon (eg. Soulbinder) for this new and different setup. I hope that helped.

I'd suggest you make one Hellbringer loadout and one Soulbinder loadout (both for PvE and PvP), since you can't specialise that much in PvP yet. By Level 70, you'll know better both Paragons, and in my opinion it's better to choose then what you want your 2 loadouts to be and whether you'll add more.

For PvP Soulbinder some endgame Powers I would suggest (for after you actually get them):
-> Warlock's Bargain, Blades of Vanquished Armies, Killing Flames (or Hadar's Grasp)
-> Borrowed Time and Shadow Walk (or Dark Prayers)
-> Essence Defiler and Hand of Blight
-> Immolation Spirits and Brood of Hadar
Getting Borrowed Time off-hand artifact effect (at Level 70!) and reaching 30 Soul Sparks (during the fight) is sure to increase your survivability significantly.
I can't make much suggestions for PvP at that Level, but have fun at your adventure!

naoqueroforum

stathisjoestar said:

@diloul31
Trying to do the math on Vorpal and Dread, I'd say Vorpal gives us a ~28,5% damage increase (considering we have 100% crit. chance) and Dread a ~43% increase (this is because we start by default with 75% crit. severity; whether we use Vorpal or Feytouched we have a crit. severity bonus already). Feytouched's 18% damage increase is comparable with Vorpal's ~28%, since Feytouched will provide us some added weapon damage and a slightly stronger Pillar of Power (doesn't buff the Owlbear Cub).

Someone planning to stick with Hellbringer the whole dungeon (both AoE and Single) should favor Vorpal over Dread, since he'll do a great deal of his damage with Hellish Rebuke and dailies. Feytouched would work just as good as Vorpal in that case.
Now, for someone planning to use Hellbringer only for AoE, and during the boss to switch to Soulbinder, Dread is more favorable. As you mentioned, the Hellbringer will be doing most of his damage with encounters and will need some extra burst. As Soulbinder he will be on his full potential with Dread as well, due to the ~43% increase on Soul Scorch.

But things would get more complicated with Combat Advantage involved. You see, Combat Advantage damage is pretty much added with Critical Severity. Let's assume we always land critical hits and advantage hits. Feytouched's damage bonus would still be 18%, but Vorpal's would now drop to ~24% and Dread's to ~36% (for this example, we assumed that our Combat Advantage damage is 35%: 15% by default +15% from CHA +5% from stats etc). All in all, and adding Feytouched's Soul Spark procs w/ Hadar's Grasp to the "equation", both Feytouched and Dread would be closer in damage now, even for a Soulbinder during a boss fight.

Feytouched 18% + some weapon damage + plenty Soul Sparks OR Dread ~36% (encounter only)

(Both have nice debuffs. In this example we land critical and advantage hits.)
I hope I didn't mess with math; even if it's basic calculations, it's not my forte. So correct me if something seems wrong.

That's how I considered Feytouched as my first choice for a multi-build, since it's more useful for my Temptation loadout as well, and especially for my PvP loadout. All 3 enchants are so good, and it's a tough choice; so more opinions along with actual results on Live will help us.

Tip: You can enjoy this build with Dread during PvE and if you seldom engage in PvP, then manually switch to Feytouched (costs Gold each time).

You end up doing a little overestimation of the buff percentage on vorpal and dread (gonna leave CA out of this). You shouldn't consider the minimum severity (75%) for determining how much vorpal or dread is adding. You should consider how much you currently have. If you had 500% severity constantly, a mere 50% from vorpal would be nothing compared to the 18% a feythouched would add, which buffs the whole overwhelming critical damage we would have with that severity.
Considering a reasonable amount of 120% severity, it would be 50/220 instead of your 50/175. And 75/220 instead of 75/175 for dread. For dread though you have to take into account the percentage of damage coming from encounters, which if I recall correctly from old logs, don't make up more than 80% of SB damage. You made a good point about CA, and I'm going to add that to my test list because I haven't considered that variable. So far I still prefer dread over fey for SB. Maybe with the CA test I might change my mind.

My problem with Fey though is for HB. Can anyone confirm if you can consistently keep the damage buff up 100% of the time with HB? Last few patches I checked this, the damage buff bugged and you would only get the buff the first 18 seconds of a dungeon (you had to stay at least 18 seconds out of combat to have a chance to get the buff again, looked like PoP was the culprit). I would love to hear that was fixed, since it is a WE that works equally well for both paragons.

pteb

Hey,

Sorry I'm just a lowly sub 3k console scrub but I was wondering why the general consensus is to feat killing flames during dungeons. (i.e. your loadout will be pop/fiery/kf.)

I'm currently running pop/fiery/arms for trash and then slot out fiery for kf on bosses if I have time (hardest content I really have access to is edemo and etos.)

-My current build doesn't run murderous flames as I was massively underwhelmed by its performance, do the builds which suggest running KF have points in MF?

-Is kf slotted under the assumption that it will always be used on a tyranical cursed target.

-I assume the ideal situation is: Tyranical curse something big, drop PoP to buff/debuff, fiery bolt to reduce its health and then KF for the bonus damage when its weakened, but with my low power output this is quite underwhelming compared to AoH spamming. Most of the time unless against bosses a good GoH beats a Tyranical curse as in the content I am running in the time it takes to cast TC the target is near dead.

Sorry if the answer is obvious, I find that all the resources available are tailored to BiS or near BiS players and alot of the guides can be misguiding to lower geared players.

Also as dreadtheft procs my owbear cub on every tick on Xbox, would you recommend I run dreadtheft>arms of hadar (Considering I am far from 100% crit chance)...Its really hard to test dps on console when pugging as groups are always inconsistent and we have no way to parse.)

Final dumb question... I took a break from the game and before coming back I ran SB Damnation instead of my current HB Fury setup, its second nature for me to spam warlocks curse, however builds are recommending All consuming curse. I can't find much information about lesser curses, am I to understand that it basically means I don't have manually apply curses as long as I crit?
Cheers.

stathisjoestar

@pteb
All-Consuming Curse is essential for Fury high-crit builds during mob fights. Just as long as you hit mobs with an AoE they all get affected by Lesser Curse, so further damage procs Creeping Death on top. You should of course use Warlock's Curse on primary targets, especially if you're going to use Fiery Bolt; that way you make use of Warlock's Curse and Brutal Curse's buffs. But you can't/won't have the time to tab everything, so ACC is needed to spread Curses on every mob and pass Creeping Death.

I usually run the same rotation: Arms/PoP/Fiery on mobs, with KF on boss instead of Fiery. Having though Arms/PoP/KF on mobs can be beneficial depending on the situation, the party composition and some "intuition" I believe. For example, you could drop Pillar of Power, instantly cast Accursed Souls (to pass Lesser Curse on every mob with ACC), shift and proceed on throwing a well-positioned Arms of Hadar. At this point you may not need to throw a Fiery Bolt (and another Arms of Hadar); possibly because just 1-2 AoEs would be more than enough, or the party clears everything too fast; so you nimbly throw Killing Flames on the strongest mob (which is also weakened) to deal a huge chunk of damage before all mobs drop dead, while also saving a second Arms of Hadar to finish off everything that may still be left.
I haven't compared the two rotations in dps, 'cause I feel it is a matter of timing and mob group or party composition, so I use them accordingly (with Arms/PoP/Fiery being my staple for best AoE damage).

Now for Tyrannical Curse, its casting time deters me from using it often in AoE, unless I'll have the time to engage in with a full rotation. As for solo boss fights, I don't use it there since it is mitigated twice (by enemy's DR and by lvl 73 mobs), while it also replaces Warlock's Curse buff. I don't believe that KF is used continuously as a combo with Tyrannical Curse; in fact on PC, Arms/PoP/Fiery is actually more common. I wouldn't suggest Murderous Flames either, unless you run a PvP build or specifically an HB Fury loadout for single dps switch.

I need to implement Dreadtheft in my Fury's rotation and see how it would do. Just noting that dps-wise your damage would be noticably less now (when compared to your teammates), since you'll be buffing them with DT & PoP and you'll be quite occupied yourself, with no room for some burst damage.
But honestly, Paingiver isn't an end in itself; we are set to have fun with our characters in more than one ways. I believe that with Dreadtheft you can indeed make up for your low crit with those procs and bring adequate damage to the table, as well as great support!

terrasight

What I ask myself the last time about loadouts is: How strong it will be?

Let me explain...

In a good group with power & good buffs, the mobs and bosses goes down quickly (talking of fbi/msva & spc). So because of this... how much "more" will/can the SB do on bosses especially in this kind of fights? With HB I've a better "burst" and SB takes a bit longer to unleash his full power, so as I said above in my opinion it will be a question of group/dungeon if a HB/SB combination works well enough or not.

On PS4 it takes a while for the update, and for sure I'll test it... and I'm very pleased of your results guys and of the damage numbers

silence1x

Great writeup! Thanks for sharing.

daccura

MF still is usable on single target. The 30% dmg increase is good on bosses since you obviously take KF on bosses. You don't see your KF number go up because the dmg from MF is displayed as a second yellow number. Btw MF procs Owl Bear Cubs power so with every KF, even if it does crit, you proc the effect.

Example on boss with random numbers:

Your KF crit hits for like 100k.
Your MF hits for 30k (as a yellow number).
Your Owl Bear Cub procs because of MF and adds 50% of your power as dmg.

Example on Mobs with random numbers:
Your KF crit hits for like 100k.
Your MF hits for 30k evenly split on the mobs near the main target. This dmg seems low if there are a lot of Mobs.
Your Owl Bear Cub procs on EVERY TARGET HITTED BY MF. This means even if your MF AoE is kinda low you still get the full benefit of Owl Bear Cub.

Example on a boss with real numbers.
KF hits for like 600k.
MF hits for 180k.
Owl Bear Cub procs and lets say you have in a buff group about 150k Power. So you add another 75k dmg.

So with MF in this example yout hit for about 855k dmg with one single use of KF.
Without MF you would loose 255k dmg.

stathisjoestar

@daccura#4102
Very enlightening observation I run some tests with Murderous Flames and Killing Curse to see how they compare:

Murderous Flames:
-> extra 30% of Killing Flames' damage, equally spread and divided among mobs (gets buffed accordingly with Killing Flames)
-> procs Owlbear Cub on each mob around the main target
-> procs Creeping Death when mobs are Cursed

Killing Curse:
-> does not get buffed; damage is always 231-282 for Mod 10 & 11 weapons
-> procs once per skill and per target; multiprocs for certain skills like Dreadtheft
-> does not proc Creeping Death or anything

Seeing how we cannot swap Companions with loadouts yet, this info is of great use and convenience to our multi-build.
Owlbear Cub benefits both Pillar of Power on HB Fury and Murderous Flames on SB Fury, making it a valid choice for both loadouts, thus saving us the trouble of switching companions within a dungeon.

I haven't included Murderous Flames on HB Fury, as Killing Flames is an alternative to our AoE setup. We still need though to compare it with Helltouched in order to determine which feat (and setup) offers the most for an AoE-focused HB Fury. (it's also a matter of playstyle)
Drawbacks of Helltouched: It is a capped debuff and requires a mob to have hit you (in order to debuff that certain mob). Also, it offers party damage that may not be needed in a private dungeon run, unlike Murderous Flames that offers personal dps that is always applied (on the bosses that you will engage with HB Fury, and on AoE if you slot Killing Flames).
I'll further check which one is needed more for a private dungeon party and how benefitting Murderous Flames is in actual numbers, before making adjustments to HB Fury.

UPDATE: All in all, I updated SB Fury's feats by switching Killing Curse with Murderous Flames, as it fits the setup and offers more damage.