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Neverwinter PvP Mechanics
havok
Member Posts: 23 Arc User
Hello fellow adventurers!
Just wanted to open a general discussion, a maybe some solutions, as to the PvP experience in Neverwinter.
Before we get started with that however, I just wanted to share my view with you all.
So, I'm going to categorise different levels for how well PvP currently works.
10-19:
This is the earliest a new player can start off in PvP, and it is very disappointing to many of us who make new characters. The reasons why?
1) The player hitpoints are CRAZY. Nearly all players, regardless of class or abilities or even equipment, are off put by the idea of spending at least 5 minutes of the match trying to (as a group) take down just one player on the other team. I play with a Trickster Rogue bear in mind, so being able to effectively tank damage from 5 other players for exactly 2:33 seconds standing still is absurd. Further more, it defeats the point of my class as my stuns, even if done in loop, become useless because all players are doing equal damage and have equal hitpoints.
2) Rewards. Now, I can see that maybe giving brand new players loads of awesome gear right of the bat might be counter-productive as far as feeling "satisfied" goes. But actually, winning a game and being awarded 12 Glory isn't enough to even think about buying any suitable PvP gear. I understand PvP is supposed to be hard, but please bear in mind it should definitely be achievable!
3) Mechanics. To newer players getting your head round PvP becomes a bit of a nightmare. I had to watch other players' YouTube videos for plentiful hours before I got the correct strategies nailed for my Character such that I could go a game without dying (I'm the sneaky annoying one who runs away when I'm about to die... sorry). But this shouldn't be the case. I'd like to see some kind of tutorial explaining some basic mechanics of Domination and Gauntlegrim, because TO THIS DAY I have no idea exactly how long you have to stand on the capture zones for until they are taken for your team.
20-29
This next area basically repeats the same principles of the first. The hitpoints are still too high and the rewards are still too low. However, you probably do have a gist of how to play PvP by now. The next issue is about content.
1) (and only problem for this area apart from 1 and 2 of lvl10-19 PvP) Maps. There are two maps. 'Nough said. Kidding... But in all seriousness if you solidly try to play PvP from 10-19, it is actually enjoyable because everything is new, you don't know what you're doing, and running round like a headless chicken annoying other players is still quite amusing. But from levels 20-29 the fun stops. There are no new maps. You still haven't even bought your first bit of PvP gear, and you're still pretty much just as good (or bad) as every other player who decided to play.
30-39
This (from my experience) is the best level set to play. The hitpoints are now at a suitable amount where Tanks are noticeably harder to kill, Tricksters are noticeably more annoying, and clerics can actually heal people. You can just about afford gear if you play enough, but by the time you're getting to your 3rd or 4th piece of gear, you'll get to level 40 and be up against much harder players.
- No real complaints here, accept the maps - or lack thereof.
40-49
Another nice few levels to play at, but not without issues.
The level gap between upper and lower bounds of these levels now starts to show. Level 49s, even bad ones, are much harder to kill and have better unlocks than level 40s. The gear you wear here matters, and so those with plenty of $$$ to spend can completely *dominate* a match getting 20 kills or more.
50-59
These levels have practically the same issues as 40-49, but x3. Gear is now so unbelievable important, that a full PvP specced level 59 is about 100x better than a PvE specced level 50. It basically means you have to avoid PvP for 3 levels until your player stats catch up with you enough to go into domination and stand a chance.
60-69
Sooooo many issues.
1) Problems of levels 50-59 x6000. If you join a domination match at level 60 without any of the campaign gear for PvE, you could deal as little as 500 damage per encounter power. Even players with good PvE gear are completely outmatched by those with level 65 PvP gear.
2) The same two maps are now so very boring, that if you don't at least do well in all your matches, PvP becomes completely ruined. Because you can't play it and do well. Can't play new content. And worst of all - can't play because of item quality differences between you and other characters.
3) The target dummies. At the "Trade of Blades" - a place that you cannot trade your blades - there are target dummies. Firstly, the first two target dummies are in really awkward positions. If you want to test your combat advantage damage, using your companion, - well you can't. Please move them back. Also: their health is stupid. They are LEVEL 9!!!! They probably have more hitpoints than my Trickster Rogue will at level 70. So please, either make their hitpoints resemble that of a level 10-19 PvP players', or give them a different level! Also also: Please include a variation of target dummy levels, as whilst at lvl 60 the lvl 9 dummies are appropriate, for Level 70, and 59-10, the target dummies are pretty un-indicative of how effective your characters DPS is.
4) The gear. There should be level 60 PvP gear. Otherwise, you literally have to wait until lvl 65 before you can expect your character to even compare to the hardcore level 69 players that float about PVP.
5) Gauntlgrim. Nobody plays it. If you just want to play PvP for variety, you can't. Because Gauntlgrim rewards are not Glory, and mixing PvP and PvE before introducing the load-outs system is stupid. It will be even more stupid if there are cool-down timers on load-out swapping.
70
Level 70 PvP needs to have a completely different way of matching - in fact this probably goes for level 60-69 PvP as well.
The difference between a new level 70 and an end-game content player is so MASSIVE that equivalently, it would be like my level 19 trickster rogue fighting himself at level 43. So treat it that way! Introduce Item Level match making, where anyone over 2,9k gearscore cannot play anyone below 2k gearscore at least.
I think I'll let everyone else input their thoughts from here on out.
Please, come up with constructive criticism and let's try to IMPROVE the PvP experience, not debate class imbalances - 'Cause at the end of the day, the only class that is truly broken on PvP is a level 70 not-end-game-user GWF. Believe me, I have one and we're 100% one-shot-able.
If any of the Developers, not that I'm convinced you care about PvP due to the lack of patches for it, decide to pay some attention. Please make yourself known so I can share some more solutions with you that I simply couldn't be asked to mention in this part of the discussion.
Thank you.
Just wanted to open a general discussion, a maybe some solutions, as to the PvP experience in Neverwinter.
Before we get started with that however, I just wanted to share my view with you all.
So, I'm going to categorise different levels for how well PvP currently works.
10-19:
This is the earliest a new player can start off in PvP, and it is very disappointing to many of us who make new characters. The reasons why?
1) The player hitpoints are CRAZY. Nearly all players, regardless of class or abilities or even equipment, are off put by the idea of spending at least 5 minutes of the match trying to (as a group) take down just one player on the other team. I play with a Trickster Rogue bear in mind, so being able to effectively tank damage from 5 other players for exactly 2:33 seconds standing still is absurd. Further more, it defeats the point of my class as my stuns, even if done in loop, become useless because all players are doing equal damage and have equal hitpoints.
2) Rewards. Now, I can see that maybe giving brand new players loads of awesome gear right of the bat might be counter-productive as far as feeling "satisfied" goes. But actually, winning a game and being awarded 12 Glory isn't enough to even think about buying any suitable PvP gear. I understand PvP is supposed to be hard, but please bear in mind it should definitely be achievable!
3) Mechanics. To newer players getting your head round PvP becomes a bit of a nightmare. I had to watch other players' YouTube videos for plentiful hours before I got the correct strategies nailed for my Character such that I could go a game without dying (I'm the sneaky annoying one who runs away when I'm about to die... sorry). But this shouldn't be the case. I'd like to see some kind of tutorial explaining some basic mechanics of Domination and Gauntlegrim, because TO THIS DAY I have no idea exactly how long you have to stand on the capture zones for until they are taken for your team.
20-29
This next area basically repeats the same principles of the first. The hitpoints are still too high and the rewards are still too low. However, you probably do have a gist of how to play PvP by now. The next issue is about content.
1) (and only problem for this area apart from 1 and 2 of lvl10-19 PvP) Maps. There are two maps. 'Nough said. Kidding... But in all seriousness if you solidly try to play PvP from 10-19, it is actually enjoyable because everything is new, you don't know what you're doing, and running round like a headless chicken annoying other players is still quite amusing. But from levels 20-29 the fun stops. There are no new maps. You still haven't even bought your first bit of PvP gear, and you're still pretty much just as good (or bad) as every other player who decided to play.
30-39
This (from my experience) is the best level set to play. The hitpoints are now at a suitable amount where Tanks are noticeably harder to kill, Tricksters are noticeably more annoying, and clerics can actually heal people. You can just about afford gear if you play enough, but by the time you're getting to your 3rd or 4th piece of gear, you'll get to level 40 and be up against much harder players.
- No real complaints here, accept the maps - or lack thereof.
40-49
Another nice few levels to play at, but not without issues.
The level gap between upper and lower bounds of these levels now starts to show. Level 49s, even bad ones, are much harder to kill and have better unlocks than level 40s. The gear you wear here matters, and so those with plenty of $$$ to spend can completely *dominate* a match getting 20 kills or more.
50-59
These levels have practically the same issues as 40-49, but x3. Gear is now so unbelievable important, that a full PvP specced level 59 is about 100x better than a PvE specced level 50. It basically means you have to avoid PvP for 3 levels until your player stats catch up with you enough to go into domination and stand a chance.
60-69
Sooooo many issues.
1) Problems of levels 50-59 x6000. If you join a domination match at level 60 without any of the campaign gear for PvE, you could deal as little as 500 damage per encounter power. Even players with good PvE gear are completely outmatched by those with level 65 PvP gear.
2) The same two maps are now so very boring, that if you don't at least do well in all your matches, PvP becomes completely ruined. Because you can't play it and do well. Can't play new content. And worst of all - can't play because of item quality differences between you and other characters.
3) The target dummies. At the "Trade of Blades" - a place that you cannot trade your blades - there are target dummies. Firstly, the first two target dummies are in really awkward positions. If you want to test your combat advantage damage, using your companion, - well you can't. Please move them back. Also: their health is stupid. They are LEVEL 9!!!! They probably have more hitpoints than my Trickster Rogue will at level 70. So please, either make their hitpoints resemble that of a level 10-19 PvP players', or give them a different level! Also also: Please include a variation of target dummy levels, as whilst at lvl 60 the lvl 9 dummies are appropriate, for Level 70, and 59-10, the target dummies are pretty un-indicative of how effective your characters DPS is.
4) The gear. There should be level 60 PvP gear. Otherwise, you literally have to wait until lvl 65 before you can expect your character to even compare to the hardcore level 69 players that float about PVP.
5) Gauntlgrim. Nobody plays it. If you just want to play PvP for variety, you can't. Because Gauntlgrim rewards are not Glory, and mixing PvP and PvE before introducing the load-outs system is stupid. It will be even more stupid if there are cool-down timers on load-out swapping.
70
Level 70 PvP needs to have a completely different way of matching - in fact this probably goes for level 60-69 PvP as well.
The difference between a new level 70 and an end-game content player is so MASSIVE that equivalently, it would be like my level 19 trickster rogue fighting himself at level 43. So treat it that way! Introduce Item Level match making, where anyone over 2,9k gearscore cannot play anyone below 2k gearscore at least.
I think I'll let everyone else input their thoughts from here on out.
Please, come up with constructive criticism and let's try to IMPROVE the PvP experience, not debate class imbalances - 'Cause at the end of the day, the only class that is truly broken on PvP is a level 70 not-end-game-user GWF. Believe me, I have one and we're 100% one-shot-able.
If any of the Developers, not that I'm convinced you care about PvP due to the lack of patches for it, decide to pay some attention. Please make yourself known so I can share some more solutions with you that I simply couldn't be asked to mention in this part of the discussion.
Thank you.
What do you get when you kiss a guy?
A good chance to catch pneumonia!
After you do, he'll never bone ya!
0
Comments
I was actually trying to compliment your grasp of the fundamentals..
you really nailed down the problems right on the head..
most player would not have taken the time to write and flush it out so much
A tutorial for the clueless and/or very new would be nice too, but only if it's completely optional. Bonus points if it explains the importance of tenacity.
PS4 characters:
Brie Liadon, Shotgun Wizard
Disposable Hero, Kidney removal technician
Valorous Cake, Armored pastry defender
Ginger Christ needs no introductions
perhaps you should take and write the tutorial for yourself since you have no experience in pvp premades
and nothing to offer it would be a very fresh perspective of the blind helping the blind ...
also your guildhalls need glory to do upgrades as well...
there are glory boosters you can use that give bonus to glory earned ..
you can even have glory boosting gear (utility slots ) .. that you put on just before the match ends for bonus as well
Hopefully they change. Many would come back to the game
PS4 characters:
Brie Liadon, Shotgun Wizard
Disposable Hero, Kidney removal technician
Valorous Cake, Armored pastry defender
Ginger Christ needs no introductions