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Spellplague Caverns epic dungeon..3.1k iL requirement ????

pan17pan17 Posts: 305Member Arc User
Why so high standards cryptic ? To enforce players once more spend real money to upgrade epic artis to legendary and buy rank 9 enchantmanets...?
why so greedy....you can't give epic dungeons available for all, all , all , all , all ,all ....~you need to learn that word ''all ''~ .... players ?
Just give queues with FBI for 2k's ,Svalbard for 2k's , Spellplague 2k and leave the 3k++ epic dungeons in another queues...is it so difficult ?
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Comments

  • umarachnea#5673 umarachnea Posts: 126Member Arc User
    Because they are end-game dungeons. And end-game does not mean once you have the reputation or campaign requirement to unlock them, but instead when you have the "stats" for them, which is intrinsically tied to your iLvl.

    Point is, there are enough dungeons for lower level players, to help in the leveling and gearing up process. So every new addition will and should be considered end-game. Having a 3.1K requirement does not mean you will be able to clear it easily anyway.

    Take FBI as an example... while a team of 3.1-3.2K players can certainly finish it, it will not be a walk in the park by any stretch of the imagination..

    So anyone still below 3K should be focused on farming everything they need to get their iLvl beyond the 3K point, and they've got enough ways to do so... none of which, incidentally "require" you to spend any money.

    Currently there are only 2 dungeons that qualify as end-game: FBI and Svardborg. and Sva not so much... so yes... more end-game dungeons please.
  • they might as well make ilvl req 3.5k+ for all "end game" content, the gatekeeping in the actual community is real
    im actually the gwf carry
  • urabaskurabask Posts: 2,923Member Arc User

    they might as well make ilvl req 3.5k+ for all "end game" content, the gatekeeping in the actual community is real

    All the 3.1k dungeons have terrible return on value even if you're doing them in 25 minutes. They could get rid of the ilvl gating and they'd just get complaints about how it's too difficult.
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  • ragequittingdc#8599 ragequittingdc Posts: 229Member Arc User
    edited February 2017
    good, I don't see why the content itself can't be the gate, this whole instanced thing itself to me is weird as an old school mmorpg player but that is a different rant entirely so I'll save it. all I'm saying is groups of people only inviting overgeared toons for sva when you need to do them to improve your relic weapons is so very tiring. I can only imagine how annoying it will be once the new dungeon reaches xbox/ps4 and only people with mass rez scrolls and bis gear will be picked up to do any of it.
    im actually the gwf carry
  • dread4moordread4moor Posts: 1,012Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    edited February 2017
    I disagree. Sometimes IL limits are needed.
    People complain when content too hard and barriers low. People complain when there are no barriers and poorly equipped players spoil the run for others.
    Meh. So many ways to build your gear up, not a big issue.
    All my alts except my weakest alt pass the minimum, but even they may struggle in Spell plague.
    Choose your battles carefully. This is not a winning fight.
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  • wentriswentris Posts: 542Member Arc User
    pan17 said:

    good, I don't see why the content itself can't be the gate, this whole instanced thing itself to me is weird as an old school mmorpg player but that is a different rant entirely so I'll save it. all I'm saying is groups of people only inviting overgeared toons for sva when you need to do them to improve your relic weapons is so very tiring. I can only imagine how annoying it will be once the new dungeon reaches xbox/ps4 and only people with mass rez scrolls and bis gear will be picked up to do any of it.

    that's my point ...higher iL requirements enforce Bis party leaders to only invite overgeared players....that thing destroys mmorpg games...because low geared players will never enjoy the game if noone invites them for skirmishes and dungeons...

    They, as well, won't enjoy it if they are completely useless in dungeon, dying over and over, because they lack gear AND they will ruin the run for others. If you do not meet gear requirements on your strongest and best equipped toon think - would a PuG from queue consisting of 5 people with your gear and experience be able to beat the dungeon in any reasonable time frame? If not - you should not be able to run it.
  • brick#6890 brick Posts: 68Member Arc User
    Are you basically saying you want be carried in end game content?


    You want requirements removed to run the latest end game dungeons, so that end game ready characters can carry your less than end game character??

    That's why I've spent countless hours playing my character, so i can run end game material with players that have no business being there.


    There's plenty of dungeons for you to run while preparing and gearing for the higher ilvl content.
  • namelesshero347namelesshero347 Posts: 1,955Member Arc User
    You should be more angry at the power creep. The end-game standard now is 4K 3xR12 bonding and the new end-game dungeon needs to challenge them. The 3.1 iLvl toon going into this dungeon is going to be a carry.
  • thrilla#1991 thrilla Posts: 16Member Arc User
    Entirely agree with your point. Why are there no lower level versions for anyone who's sub 3k?

    Also, who's smart idea was it to make "bonding stones" so ridiculously powerful that it's mandatory? Why is there such a thing where you're able to obtain 300% of your pet's stats? That is effing HAMSTER in terms of scaling.

    Power creep is one thing but drastically ruining the game's difficulty development is another.

    Because they are end-game dungeons. And end-game does not mean once you have the reputation or campaign requirement to unlock them, but instead when you have the "stats" for them, which is intrinsically tied to your iLvl.

    Point is, there are enough dungeons for lower level players, to help in the leveling and gearing up process. So every new addition will and should be considered end-game. Having a 3.1K requirement does not mean you will be able to clear it easily anyway.

    Do you really expect a new casual player to be content with grinding eToS and eLoL their entire duration of stay in this game? I'm 99% sure you have no idea how hard it is for a new player to gear towards 3.1k in this game without research or guidance.

    Funnily enough, your iLvl is NOT intrinsically tied to your skill as a player - where it really matters.
  • superjellybabysuperjellybaby Posts: 68Member Arc User
    If it were upto me i'd set it at 3.8k ilvl, at the end of the day my time is precious so when i run a dungeon i expect players that are of a good standard that can actually contribute to the group, dont get me wrong there are plent of 4k+ players who suck very much but less chance of it being that way at those ilvls, nothing worse than queueing for CN and seeing all 3 dps with less than 2k armor pen, i'm a cleric ffs and i have 60% RI. End of the day its endgame if you wanna run spellplague and are not 3.1k go run the lower version they have also put into the game
  • armadeonxarmadeonx Posts: 3,807Member Arc User
    What would be the point of allowing players to reach over 4k if all content was made doable by those below 3k?

    Players specifically asked Cryptic for dungeons fit for higher item levels. Every player over the entry limit started out as low specced and worked their way up.

    It also gives you something to aim for. I support the IL req and on your point about it being a money grab, I've never spent money on gear and my main is almost 3.7k with r12 bondings.

    Players have petitioned a long time for this and Cryptic are giving us what we asked for.


    Xael De Armadeon: DC
    Xane De Armadeon: CW
    Zen De Armadeon: OP
    Zohar De Armadeon: TR
    Chrion De Armadeon: SW
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    Lt. Thackeray: HR


  • instynctiveinstynctive Posts: 1,885Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    My GWF finally exceeded 3.6k during the last 2xRP. While yes, I've spent a lot of money on this game, it's been for inventory slots (well played, Cryptic), DF Strongbox keys, my VIP, lots of silly things like fashions and dyes (before they were available in the TTB store)... I have not spent a dime on things to boost my ilvl nor will I.

    Sure, my GWF isn't the biggest and best and bad-assedness of GWFs, and I still do "DPM" (damage per minute), but I like him, and he's a fun character to play. He certainly didn't get to be 3.6 overnight... it's been a process that has taken years (3+), and I'm okay with that.

    Now, the fact that he meets the ilvl requirements for the new dungeons doesn't mean that he'll succeed in them. In fact, I'm anticipating a great many deaths in the new dungeon, and that, too, is okay. For now.

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    "...I grab my wiener and charge!" - ironzerg79
  • oldbaldyoneoldbaldyone Posts: 1,788Member Arc User
    Players asking for 4k HDPS people for Tiamat is always going to happen, regardless of what IL you put as a gate. Players want to go as fast as they can, especially when "content" here means "run the same thing over and over".

    4k players were running ETOS and ELOL for ever too, so don't give me the crying about new players being content with old content stuff. The 4k players ran that stuff a ton too. Every other day it seems there is a post trying to make this game easier, when the actual problem is that it isn't hard enough.

    That said, I could agree that it shouldn't be THAT hard to make lower level versions of dungeons. Reduce damage, HP and resistances, take out some abilities, and bam, a 3k IL dungeon is down to 2k...boom, more content. Considering the new skirmish they built looks like something that could have been done in a weekend, I don't know. Keep in mind too that if players have access to all content (even watered down) at a low level, they are going to be less interested in trying to improve.....this may work in a way to help the game stay power balanced. However, MMOs need that carrot on a stick or they die.
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  • hastati96hastati96 Posts: 286Member Arc User
    Endgame content is needed in a game. It is something people are working for to reach it if you don't have this kind of content a game becomes boring very fastly. If content focuses on the "average" player with 2k what happens if you reach 3k+? Right, it becomes boring because you can faceroll it. At least 1-3 dungeons are needed for people with 3k+. This kind of players also need entertainment. I even think there should be a dungeon for 3.8k-4k+ but let's see what the future brings.

    @pan17 you said: "Just give queues with FBI for 2k's ,Svalbard for 2k's , Spellplague 2k and leave the 3k++ epic dungeons in another queues...is it so difficult ? "
    basically you have always an easier version of the highend content, except FBI. You have normal svardborg and even a leveldungeon-version of spellplague so if you want to play the maps you can still do so.
    Nero - PvE Control Wizard - Essence of Aggression



  • rjc9000rjc9000 Posts: 2,073Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    hastati96 said:

    Endgame content is needed in a game. It is something people are working for to reach it if you don't have this kind of content a game becomes boring very fastly. If content focuses on the "average" player with 2k what happens if you reach 3k+? Right, it becomes boring because you can faceroll it. At least 1-3 dungeons are needed for people with 3k+. This kind of players also need entertainment. I even think there should be a dungeon for 3.8k-4k+ but let's see what the future brings.

    @pan17 you said: "Just give queues with FBI for 2k's ,Svalbard for 2k's , Spellplague 2k and leave the 3k++ epic dungeons in another queues...is it so difficult ? "
    basically you have always an easier version of the highend content, except FBI. You have normal svardborg and even a leveldungeon-version of spellplague so if you want to play the maps you can still do so.

    Hmm... Spellplague and FBI for a 2.5-2.8K team? Tweak monsters/damage/etc, and add the "Master" tag to current eSP and FBI?

    That sounds interesting.

    And also, we kind of need more "intermediary" dungeons, as I'm noticing that our dungeons go from 1,600 to 2k to... 3100. Where are the 2500/2800 dungeons so the players moving to endgame have their own "training" dungeons?

  • instynctiveinstynctive Posts: 1,885Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    edited February 2017
    ...and once again: if dungeons are scaled by the party's ilvl, all these problems will be solved. The last Dev that I had spoken directly with had told me that was something they hadn't even considered, and that it might be worth looking into.

    Of course, dungeon rewards would scale appropriately as well.

    Yes, I know there are ways around it (removing gear, etc.) and that it would be "too hard to program" or whatever, but it makes the absolute most sense to me.
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    "...I grab my wiener and charge!" - ironzerg79
  • mamalion1234mamalion1234 Posts: 3,188Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    illusionist gambit pom and throne of dwarven gods bot lairs without the minimum item level tell if i am wrong.
  • mebengalsfan#9264 mebengalsfan Posts: 3,165Member Arc User

    I disagree. Sometimes IL limits are needed.

    People complain when content too hard and barriers low. People complain when there are no barriers and poorly equipped players spoil the run for others.

    Meh. So many ways to build your gear up, not a big issue.

    All my alts except my weakest alt pass the minimum, but even they may struggle in Spell plague.

    Choose your battles carefully. This is not a winning fight.

    I have seen my fair share of high IL player that must have bought their way to the IL as they simply got beat by players with lower IL and stats, when I say beat, I'm talking 2x the damage.

    The issue with pay to advance games is that you can have an excellent player who has a 2.5K IL that can out damage 3.5-4K IL players, simply due to the lower IL player learning how to play their character by going through the game the way it was intended to be played without spending any money.

    IL does not translate into a player knowledge of the class, it simply is a number that allows entry into certain content.

    This idea is not new to MMOs. DCUO uses a similar system but they do a % value of all your gear and call it Combat Rating. ESO use to use a Veterans system to ensure you spent the time building up your character.

    NW, simple, your IL is based on all items you have equiped that provide a gear score from gear, enchantments, kits, etc...

    One of the easiest ways to make your IL higher is kits. Will they improve your character as much as better gear, it depends upon the gear and the stats from the kit.

    For me in any game figure out what the minimum is and than add 25% to that value as that should make harder content easier.

    For instance, 2K dungeons are much easier for a group if all players are 2.2K or higher. 1.6K dungeons are easier if all players are 2K. I imagine that the 3.1K dungeons are easier if all players are 3.8K or higher.
  • thrilla#1991 thrilla Posts: 16Member Arc User


    4k players were running ETOS and ELOL for ever too, so don't give me the crying about new players being content with old content stuff. The 4k players ran that stuff a ton too. Every other day it seems there is a post trying to make this game easier, when the actual problem is that it isn't hard enough.

    You're either so jaded you can't think in different perspectives or you just don't really care. New players have no vested interest in the game like you who has played for 3+ years. They are able to leave and uninstall this game anytime they want because lets be real, there are way better developed games than this, out there. So it comes down to player retention and noob-friendliness. I can guarantee with 99% confidence those 4k players (you included) who are running ETOS and ELOL forever aren't doing it cause they are fun, they are doing it because it's a grind they are put under for necessity, there's only so many times you can stand lostmauth's hunger cutscene. Do you understand my point? Cryptic is not catering or thinking about new players on a deeper level in terms of game mechanics because they don't want the fuss involved in upgrading/updating the game. They are content in constantly adding *NEW content that will keep the veterans satisfied and spending. For example, how to get these loaded individuals to spend MORE? Let's add BONDING STONES to the game. Now people will buy their zen store companions just for these stones. Without adding or creating artwork for brand new items or gears, VOILA, *NEW CONTENT.

    *Re-used models/artworks rehashed and recolored.

    If you are so clustered to think that I'm just asking for easier content, you are just ignorant. I'm a new player, 2 month in with a 3.2k main (lesser bondings only) with no money spent other than a starting VIP. I can tank and out damage at the same time most 3.5k+ players without greater bondings. I don't want easier content, I want harder and more mechanically interesting content. Not gimmicks that feels tacked on like everfrost resistance and Orcus' 800k one hits.
  • thefiresidecatthefiresidecat Posts: 3,403Member Arc User

    Entirely agree with your point. Why are there no lower level versions for anyone who's sub 3k?

    Also, who's smart idea was it to make "bonding stones" so ridiculously powerful that it's mandatory? Why is there such a thing where you're able to obtain 300% of your pet's stats? That is effing HAMSTER in terms of scaling.

    Power creep is one thing but drastically ruining the game's difficulty development is another.

    Because they are end-game dungeons. And end-game does not mean once you have the reputation or campaign requirement to unlock them, but instead when you have the "stats" for them, which is intrinsically tied to your iLvl.

    Point is, there are enough dungeons for lower level players, to help in the leveling and gearing up process. So every new addition will and should be considered end-game. Having a 3.1K requirement does not mean you will be able to clear it easily anyway.

    Do you really expect a new casual player to be content with grinding eToS and eLoL their entire duration of stay in this game? I'm 99% sure you have no idea how hard it is for a new player to gear towards 3.1k in this game without research or guidance.

    Funnily enough, your iLvl is NOT intrinsically tied to your skill as a player - where it really matters.
    its very difficult but most who stay in the game find a guild and get that guidance if they have an interest in getting there. it took me about 5 months to get the will to gear up. having higher level content is one of the instigating factors to get people interested in learning how to do it. I don't have a problem with it. I do have a problem wiht their truth in advertising. all the dungeons have ilvels that are way too low in requirement than actually needed. they should raise ilevels all around unless you're in a private queue in which case ilvel should be able to be abandoned if desired.
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    Main toons
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    Rincewind CW 18k


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  • thefiresidecatthefiresidecat Posts: 3,403Member Arc User
    2k players have other dungeons to play and tbh at that ilvel they are going to be STRUGGLING to get thru the dungeons they have available to them still. it isn't pay to win to level up further. when I am NOT trying to run the new dungeons (because you need to wear frost gear for that) I am about 3900 ilvel with 3 r12 bondings adn a legendary pet. I've bought stuff in game before but none of it has to do iwth my ilvel. it's entirely grindable. the only thing that a player needs to accomplish what I have is the will to do so and the time.
    xbox guild

    Main toons
    Tiberius Rex SW Combat hr 17.4k
    Rincewind CW 18k


    PC imaginary friends special events only

  • armadeonxarmadeonx Posts: 3,807Member Arc User
    2k players can't even clear ETOS without help. A 2k player is not at 'end'game' status as reaching level 70 is nowhere near the end, it is the beginning of your real levelling up.

    I've levelled up 7 characters and I don't consider any of them as ready for proper dungeon work until they are at least 2.8k.

    Before that players should be working on boons, getting gear from Underdark & dragonflight, getting better weapons and farming RP & AD, buying enchantments (r7 min, go for r8 if you can afford them) and getting basic level weapon and armor enchantments.

    A typical <2.5k player has at best 10k power, 4k crit, less than optimal RI, poor weapon enchantment, low level companions and bondings, zero defensive capability and somewhere between 10% - 50% of boons completed.

    Not to mention a lack of experience with the class and more than likely a sub-optimal build.

    What are you going to bring to a group in FBI or Spellplague? These are a challenge for 3.5k players who have a lot of experience (as they should be). Stamping your foot and demanding you want everything immediately when you haven't even bothered finishing the easy stuff is just ridiculous.


    Xael De Armadeon: DC
    Xane De Armadeon: CW
    Zen De Armadeon: OP
    Zohar De Armadeon: TR
    Chrion De Armadeon: SW
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    Barney McRustbucket: GF
    Lt. Thackeray: HR


  • namelesshero347namelesshero347 Posts: 1,955Member Arc User
    I image lots of issues like difficulty and reward level needs to be worked out for them to provide a 2K queue to the end game content. Probably not worth it since there are already plenty of content for 2K people.
  • niadanniadan Posts: 1,635Member Arc User
    I was 2K once...a long grind ago. Sorry dude...PAY YOUR DUES.
  • wintersmokewintersmoke Posts: 1,391Member Arc User

    Because they are end-game dungeons. And end-game does not mean once you have the reputation or campaign requirement to unlock them, but instead when you have the "stats" for them, which is intrinsically tied to your iLvl.

    Point is, there are enough dungeons for lower level players, to help in the leveling and gearing up process. So every new addition will and should be considered end-game. Having a 3.1K requirement does not mean you will be able to clear it easily anyway.

    Take FBI as an example... while a team of 3.1-3.2K players can certainly finish it, it will not be a walk in the park by any stretch of the imagination..

    So anyone still below 3K should be focused on farming everything they need to get their iLvl beyond the 3K point, and they've got enough ways to do so... none of which, incidentally "require" you to spend any money.

    Currently there are only 2 dungeons that qualify as end-game: FBI and Svardborg. and Sva not so much... so yes... more end-game dungeons please.

    I guess you missed the post the other day from a player that wants all the players q'ing for NSVA to stop that & start q'ing for MSVA... because he can't get the marks he needs.
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