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(pre-mod 12) Damage Resistance debuffs effectiveness
michela123
Member Posts: 257 Arc User
GROUNDWORK
Kaelac and @mythlond2 did the first tests on debuffs and found that some of them are mitigated.
In this thread you can find the 200% effectiveness cap explained by @chemodan007.
CREDITS
(in alphabetical order):
@falkon84 found the exact Dread formula and helped with some tests with Lantern, Repentant Dragon Cultist and Vanguard Banner.
@jazzfong hired some human sacrifices from the DC_Channel to help me get my Vanguard Banner on preview server and reported some changes on Frost enchantment.
@micky1p00 tested Greenscale Bowman and Vanguard Banner.
@niubaracs cross-checked TR, OP skills and Vorpal and reported me a bug on Vow of Enmity (now fixed).
@rjc9000 pointed out the missing War Boar and Token of Chromatic Storm and helped testing them.
@thefabricant cross-checked CW and HR skills, tested Ambush Drake, borrowed some enchantments and helped find people that owned items I was missing.
@zekthesinner and @thefabricant tested Faerie Fire.
DEBUFFS LIST
You can find the debuffs list in this document. I compiled it on August 2016, some information may not be updated. Hopefully there aren't typos, I derived it from the old original list. I'll try to check everything again, eventually.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1N8Y_AmqnnhOdaCT2Sg9e-OcC0m6q5nUJLfujZVsI1Z0/edit?usp=sharing
Some bugs are better explained in these bugs report:
arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/1224762/lantern-of-revelation-vanguards-banner-heart-of-the-black-dragon
CAPPED AND UNCAPPED DEBUFFS
Effectiveness is lowered by enemy’s Damage Resistance, but your Resistance Ignored can raise it up to 100%. Debuffs can raise it even more, but the majority of them are capped at 200% effectiveness. Uncapped debuffs allow us to exceed this limit. This is a simplified formula to understand their behaviour:
Where:
DR = enemy’s Damage Resistance
RI = attacker’s Resistance Ignored
Example:
Enemy’s DR = 24%
Attacker’s RI = 6%
Capped debuffs = Daring Shout (20%) Bronzewood (5%)
Uncapped debuffs = Staying Power (10%) Sellsword (10%)
(1-0,24+0,06+0,20+0,05) * (1+0,10+0,10) = 1,284 (that is 128,4% effectiveness)
In this case the final damage is:
5263,8 * 1,284 = 6758,7
MITIGATED AND UNMITIGATED DEBUFFS
Mitigated debuffs are lowered by enemy’s Damage Resistance (regardless of your Resistance Ignored) and they are only 75% effective against level 73 mobs. For example a Transcendent Terror enchantment (4%) against a level 73 enemy with 60% DR is 4*(1-0,6)*0,75 = 1,2%.
EXCEPTIONS
Some debuffs work a bit differently. I’ll just give some general information about them because they really complicate the formula.
Dread:
It is capped at 200%, not mitigated by enemy’s Damage Resistance and 75% effective against level 73 enemies. It slightly increases the effectiveness of mitigated debuffs.
Ambush, Quarry, Dreadtheft:
They are multiplicative with everything, even with other debuffs from the same category, they are capped at 200% and they are not mitigated.
Ambush Drake, Repentant Dragon Cultist, Frost:
They aren’t capped at 200%, they aren’t mitigated by enemy’s Damage Resistance, but they are 75% effective against level 73 enemies. They slightly increase the effectiveness of mitigated debuffs.
Post edited by michela123 on
19
Comments
:P
With:
2x Swath
Combustive
2x Ray
Divine Glow
Dreadtheft
Effectiveness was 200%.
Seriously i've wondered about war boar and fiery fire for so long but i didnt have the zen to try them, deep thanks.
This is a bit more specific but if anyone is interested:
Marks dont simply just stack:
Primary mark (GF Tab mark) : 20% debuff.
Secondary mark : 8% debuff(Mark from ET), no damage increase paired with GF mark or terciary mark, still 20%, stacks normally with tide of iron.
Terciary mark - 20% debuff (Threathning rush)
3 marks : 32% debuff (secondary mark is irrelevant)
GWF:
GWF mark to gwf:
20% from daring shout;
20% from TR;
32% at most
GWF mark to allies:
8% no matter what, both marks or just one
GF/Gwf interaction
main GF mark with ds -- nothing both
main GF mark with tr --nothing both
main GF mark with both - nothing both
And doesn't frostburn also apply debuff to afflicted targets?
One tiny request - can you set it so that the column headers stay at the top when scrolling down through the data (row 7)?
Thanks
@treesclimber Marks were pretty interesting to test. @rjc9000 got the idea to test if the War Boar stacked with other marks and I was surprised it didn't. Frostburn has been reworked several times. I think that now (in pve) it has only a slow/disable effect. When I checked it against mobs, the debuff didn't increase my effectiveness. Anyway I only gave a quick look at it.
@silence1x Done!
1: you debuff the mob your first hit is 8% addition to 108%.
2: your next hit show n/a on act. you are saying that is increasment to your ri.
3: exiting the vanguard area and entering again i saw banner red letters to appear and then the act were showing : 92% efffectiveness my next attacks. THE area debuffed me when i gone out and entered again.
BASED ON THOSE 3 facts i think happens this: BOTH mob and player get debuff. YOUR first hit you are not debuffed. THEN the debuff triggers on you and equalises damage debuff 8% -8% damage resist debuff=0. SO for the next hit you hit with 100%. IF you exit the banner and enter again you get the debuff only you monster doesnt get it because it seems to dissapear if you exit the banner. AND you go 92% .
WHatever happens that artifact is better to not use it.
http://prnt.sc/dlghnx here is an example my ri is 75% =for sure 100% effectiveness from ri part.
This debuffs the TEAM's damage resistance?
Uh, well... gotta watch where I step when I'm on my GF.
The guide from @thefabricant said:
"Mitigated 3 Times: Maximum magnitude*(1-Defender DR+Attacker RI)*(1-Defender DR)*0.75"
Multiplier (1-Defender DR+Attacker RI) confuses me. This means that if I have low RI, these debuffs are for me weaker?
Now I found the answer to my question on another site. Do not have more questions.
If your Resistance Ignored is less than Enemy Resistance needed to do full damage, mitigated debuffs versus your attacks are weaker in making your attacks do damage.
Example.I have 30% RI. Mob 73lvl have 60% DR.
I use 28% DR debuffs and Plague Fire.
Then Effectiveness will (1-DR+RI+ƩDRdebuffs)*(1+PlagueFire*(1-DR+RI)*(1-DR)*0.75) ?
or (1-DR+RI+ƩDRdebuffs)*(1+PlagueFire*(1-DR)*0.75) ?
Now I found the answer to my question on another site. Do not have more questions.
@chemodan007 I’ll explain that part anyway, since probably other people have the same doubt. Let’s take for example the Sellsword (10% debuff). If you have a mob with 30% DR, 0% RI and no other debuff, Sellsword is (1-0,3)*0,10 = 7%. If then you cap your RI it is (1-0,3+0,3)*0,10 = 10%. That’s why Kaelac and other said that it is mitigated. Although the math is correct, I find the explanation inaccurate. Sellsword in fact, like all uncapped debuffs, is just multiplicative with the “base effectiveness” given by DR, RI and capped debuffs.
First of all, you can reach 100% effectiveness just with capped debuffs and 0% RI, and in this case Sellsword is still 10%. So you don't need RI to overcome the mitigation. Furthermore, when the base effectiveness > 100% (and this basically happens in every party contents), Sellsword’s effectiveness is more than 10%, since as I said it is multiplicative. In fact, if you have 200% effectiveness, Sellsword is 20%. So if someone says those debuffs are mitigated, it just makes them appear weak, while they are actually the strongest debuffs in game.
Also note that in the example where the Sellsword provides 7% effectiveness, the damage increase is still 10%, since 7% is 10% of 70%.
Then there are debuffs that are actually mitigated: the High Prophet set explained by Kaelac and the ones that Sharp calls triple mitigated debuffs. This is the (less simplified) formula that includes them:
When enemy's level < 73:
When enemy's level = 73:
Where Ʃ is a symbol that means "sum of".
An example of "capped mitigated" is Terror, an example of "uncapped mitigated" is Plague Fire.
So at the end it will be:
Where I[something] is an Indicator of something and equal 1 when something = true, and equal 0 when something = false.
Skillmodifier is the at-will / encounter / dailiy modifier and it's rank
(I don't remember the main Ability for all classes, so STR is for example)
The list leaves only one type of question regarding debuffs unanswered: which ones stack with the same one used by another player on the same target. f.e. If both players use trans dread: is the target debuffed for 8 or 16?
Also, I´ve read somewhere that the debuffs from 2 dancing shields won´t stack, but the debuffs from 2 sellswords will...is that true?
I can confirm that multiple Dancing Shields DO NOT stack.
Multiple Sellswords/Con Artists stack.