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Worried that GWFs are overperforming in PVE.

jonkocajonkoca Posts: 2,515Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
edited November 2016 in PvE Discussion
Strange, seems like whenever I go into a dungeon, or any content really, be it cn, etos, demo, edemo, tiamat etc., 99% of the time, it is a gwf on top of the paingiver. And not just squeaking in by a couple of thousand, or even a million. But sometimes double the amount of the guy in position number two. Double. Anyway. Make your voice heard. We're anonymous btw.

Worried that GWFs are overperforming in PVE. 61 votes

Yes, it is my feeling that gwfs over perform in PVE content.
50% 31 votes
No, I'm just fine with gwf damage, it's totally balanced.
49% 30 votes
No idea what my toon is now.
«1

Comments

  • jonkocajonkoca Posts: 2,515Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    That's okay, at the moment no-one needs to dodge, the bigger mobs are almost immune to control and party utility is taken care of by the D.C. and the GF. So, why should one striker class still trump all the others..?
    No idea what my toon is now.
  • jonkocajonkoca Posts: 2,515Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    It's called Anointed army, anyway, given recent rebalancing of two alternate striker classes, the SW and the HR, it would only seem fair that the gwf class gets a pass too. I would understand your concern if the differences in dps output were small, but, this is not the case, is it..?
    No idea what my toon is now.
  • jonkocajonkoca Posts: 2,515Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    I see no reason for personal attacks.

    I do however see evidence of gwf domination in the paingiver, well, everyday. As does everyone else. Looking for group channels etc.
    No idea what my toon is now.
  • silver11#9318 silver11 Posts: 92Member Arc User
    Theyll be nerfed sooner than later im guessing. The no utility/ dodge argument is outdated. They can add one and reduce dps to a reasonable amount. I expect them to be top dps always, but not to the amount it current is.
  • mightyerikssonmightyeriksson Posts: 749Member Arc User
    edited November 2016
    Well, if you add CC-ability to the equation, of which the GWF has very little, I think it's in a pretty good place.

    I wouldn't mind HR getting Swiftness of the Fox reverted back though...
  • lirithiellirithiel Posts: 2,482Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User

    GWF is fine. We have no dodge, no control and no party utility. ALL we do is damage, we are the frontline troops. We already went through being a useless class from Mods 4-6, and have been nerfed almost every module. Give it a rest already.

    GWF is the new CW. So for 2 Mods GWF was HAMSTER. Cry me a river. That still makes it roughly 5 mods where they were top of the pops. Not quite the run CWs had but close. The only class that could get close in recent times was the Buglock but that's about to end in tears too.
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  • jonkocajonkoca Posts: 2,515Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    edited November 2016

    A nerf him, not me post is all this is. Quit crying, TR and HR do just fine vs. GWF.

    Lol. HRs are in fact, already being balanced, as are SWs. So not a "nerf him not me" thread in your words. And considering the gwf class were among the loudest callers for the current situation, your post adds very little to the discussion.

    I just did 2 runs in cn. Needless to say, the gwf near doubled the damage of the other 2 strikers.
    No idea what my toon is now.
  • jonkocajonkoca Posts: 2,515Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    edited November 2016
    Okay, I'll screenshot the paingiver of every run I go on, and post it here. But really..? This somehow is not common knowledge..?
    No idea what my toon is now.
  • dmcewendmcewen Posts: 279Member Arc User
    After the HR and SW get "fixed", the PVE balance will be out of control again. Right now it's pretty balanced in terms of dps, even when talking about TR's and CW's.

    The GWF will just go back to having the highest surviveability and the highest dps potential for any dps class. Back to the "need GWF for..." Nonsense.
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  • greywyndgreywynd Posts: 3,821Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    Properly employed the Sprint ability is a dodge. Not a "hurry up and get to the next mob faster" option.

    There are several things that are tracked. Why is it Paingiver is the one that people think means the most?
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  • schietindebuxschietindebux Posts: 4,136Member Arc User
    edited November 2016
    I disagree. GWF, CW, Warlock are close together. No big differences running a PVe setup with 3x12 bondings. I admit that Spellstorm CW´s may be a bit stronger than GWF and warlocks at high level gear.
    No clue if Hunter pics the crown in the end, but GWF doesn´t in my book.
    No need for screenshotsm I run enough FBI, CN , edemo etc.
    Maybe your setup is not made for PVE Jokonca, you are PVP skilled right?
    It´s hard to test anyway in 10 second bossfights, FBI is the only plattform to get an impression about performance because the fights last a bit longer.
    TR drops off in those fights with a lot movement is my impression. At the turtle they can do a good job same at Hati, if the player knows his buttons.
  • jonkocajonkoca Posts: 2,515Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    Because it's the most obvious and accessable measuring stick pan-playerbase, and while sure, it doesn't show everything that's going on under the hood, it does, in this case, given the wild disparity between average gwf damage, and the damage output of other striker classes give a reasonable indicator that something is increasingly going out of whack.
    No idea what my toon is now.
  • jonkocajonkoca Posts: 2,515Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User

    Maybe your setup is not made for PVE Jokonca, you are PVP skilled right?

    Atm. I'm combat pvp. But if the rebalance of plantgrowth goes through, it's back to pve trapper stormwarden. However, this isn't me comparing my own fairly mediocre damage output to that of a pve gwf, it's me drawing attention to the fact that your average/bis gwf blows everybody out of the water. SWs are getting a serious fix, that will take them out of the running, the HR heavy hitter plantgrowth is getting apparantly yet another downward adjustment on preview, which will be enough to make them slide down the table too. I've seen specific bis CWs really dishing out the damage, at the cost of survivability.... And even then to be honest, I only know of 2.

    Without some thought being put into rebalancing now, the situation will only get worse.

    No idea what my toon is now.
  • beckylunaticbeckylunatic Posts: 14,231Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    GWFs perform like that, if and only if their player is using the approved build and rotation, reliant on a great deal of self-buffing (made even better via group buffing), and effective even when relatively low-geared. GWF players have the advantage that the approved build and rotation was openly shared with the community in very accessible fashion, allowing anyone who took the trouble to learn it the ability to make use of it. It's neither the button-mashing skill-less play that it gets accused of being, nor is it rocket surgery for anyone who isn't a numbwitted cretin. But if you see anyone trying to get "creative" with their GWF, they're probably only managing to gimp themselves.

    So I'd say it's a delicate matter. There is essentially one thing that works really, very, incredibly well for GWFs, and the CWs and the TRs and the SWs and the HRs (and the DCs and the GFs and the OPs) can all speak from experience that when Cryptic decides to take a look at whatever their metrics tell them is "overperforming", how easily the class can bounce back from the resultant changes depends on how good everything else in your toolbox is.

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  • trivialrage#6656 trivialrage Posts: 67Member Arc User
    Gwf offers no utility other than damage. that is not all that matters in a group makeup, don't be a prick cause you don't get top paingiver. besides that, they aren't always top deeps. I run with a 3100 therm cw that almost always tops charts.
  • ajlir#7970 ajlir Posts: 367Member Arc User
    GWF damage is fine. They are our damage source for prolonged fights. If you burst everything in a dungeon, what good is having a GWF do?
  • flyingleonflyingleon Posts: 451Member Arc User
    edited November 2016
    I am not saying you are wrong, but starting such a poll will not be productive.

    The action of modification of destroyer tree should come after revising/buffing the other two trees of GWF. And, gwf might be the only class can only do dps thesee days.

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  • vida44vida44 Posts: 667Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    Oh so we are having another one of these threads. :clap: :clap:

    GWF's have one and one tree ONLY to turn to. If every GWF that you meet is doing double your DPS it's because we are all going the same path, distributing points in the same feats. We have no options. We are a pure Damage dealer. We don't buff, we don't heal, we can maybe tank...yeah right, not after the temp HP nerf...and on top of all of this our class mechanic called Unstoppable is bugged.

    It's like you are playing a completely different game if you don't know that GWF's are very limited in playstyle. We have 4 encounters to choose from depending on 5 points we can maybe move around (talking PvE here) if we want to be top DPS. Hidden Daggers (first to be nerfed and GWF's already know this), Daring Shout/Battle Fury and IBS. Wow...look at all these options. Now imagine that every GWF in the game is playing the same all thing. Pushing the same buttons and using the same routines. The only difference being gear.

    And I don't know if you notice how "balance" works in this game. It's not balance actually, it's more like "we see you are all using this encounter the most, so we will nerf it, si that you can play this encounter from now on". It's actually forcing you to play as they want the game to be played.

    And have you notice the SW nerf that is happening? Do you want that to happen to every class?

    And also, do you know, that the success of the dungeon is not measured by who has the bigger HAMSTER on the chart but rather by completing a dungeon. Do you maybe don't like that you are finishing a dungeon? Is your ego so hurt if you see someone top on the chart? Do you think I cry myself to bed if I see another class above me on paingiver? HAMSTER no, I'm glad we finished the dungeon to get that Peridot inside the chest.
  • ajlir#7970 ajlir Posts: 367Member Arc User
    vida44 said:

    Oh so we are having another one of these threads. :clap: :clap:

    GWF's have one and one tree ONLY to turn to. If every GWF that you meet is doing double your DPS it's because we are all going the same path, distributing points in the same feats. We have no options. We are a pure Damage dealer. We don't buff, we don't heal, we can maybe tank...yeah right, not after the temp HP nerf...and on top of all of this our class mechanic called Unstoppable is bugged.

    It's like you are playing a completely different game if you don't know that GWF's are very limited in playstyle. We have 4 encounters to choose from depending on 5 points we can maybe move around (talking PvE here) if we want to be top DPS. Hidden Daggers (first to be nerfed and GWF's already know this), Daring Shout/Battle Fury and IBS. Wow...look at all these options. Now imagine that every GWF in the game is playing the same all thing. Pushing the same buttons and using the same routines. The only difference being gear.

    And I don't know if you notice how "balance" works in this game. It's not balance actually, it's more like "we see you are all using this encounter the most, so we will nerf it, si that you can play this encounter from now on". It's actually forcing you to play as they want the game to be played.

    And have you notice the SW nerf that is happening? Do you want that to happen to every class?

    And also, do you know, that the success of the dungeon is not measured by who has the bigger HAMSTER on the chart but rather by completing a dungeon. Do you maybe don't like that you are finishing a dungeon? Is your ego so hurt if you see someone top on the chart? Do you think I cry myself to bed if I see another class above me on paingiver? HAMSTER no, I'm glad we finished the dungeon to get that Peridot inside the chest.

    Then do you know that Plant Growth is nerfed in preview? It's the biggest hit encounter that HR has similar to GWF's IBS and they just nerf it by 50%. You tell me how can I stop the QQs from our fellow rangers. You tell me how.

    No, SW nerf is only a starting point. It's going to happen to every class regardless we want it or not.

  • ajlir#7970 ajlir Posts: 367Member Arc User

    I have no sympathy. They can just adapt like GWF and CW had to in Mod 4. They want GWF nerfed AGAIN, so let em eat cake.

    No. The devs are the ones that needs to take the blame. And yes, we have to expect ninja-nerfs on all classes. This isn't sympathy. This is about a dev sniper with a nerf bullet 360 no-scoping Neverwinter Online's flood gates.
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