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In praise of this game (and why I left ESO for Neverwinter)
pallmor
Member Posts: 31 Arc User
Okay, so this is going to be a long post, but I just wanted to give the developers some kudos for this great game and explain why I prefer it to so many other MMO's out there, particularly Elder Scrolls Online(ESO)--from whence I came, after having played that game since launch. While I know it's always fashionable to complain and moan about a game on its forums, I wanted to take some time to detail all the things this game does RIGHT. Granted, I've only played this game for a few weeks, but there is still so much I've seen that impresses me compared to ESO and most other MMO's I've played.
Here are the big things this game does RIGHT, and the big reasons I prefer it:
1) As a newb, I don't feel hopelessly behind in this game.
In ESO and most other MMO's, it can take months (or even years) for a casual newb to reach end-game content. And the "grind" to end-level is a NIGHTMARE. I've played ESO since launch and I *STILL* feel hopelessly behind in the game. If you're not playing 10 hours a day and buying every expansion that comes out, you're ALWAYS hopelessly behind. And your guildies treat you like dirt if you don't have the latest expansion pack and the new Super Awesome Helm of Something that you can only get by grinding the new Super Hard Dungeon of Woe about a million times.
In this game, I've never felt that end-game is hopelessly out of reach. Level progression so far has been quite reasonable, even after level 60. Everyone complaining about the 60-70 "grind" in NW has obviously never experienced the grind of doing Vet levels in ESO. Imagine grinding every day for a week and barely seeing your level progression bar move. Now THAT's a grind.
2) The coop and PvP elements of this game are fun, rewarding, and easy to get into.
Let me paint a picture of what coop and PvP is like in ESO. To do a coop dungeon, you wait FOREVER in a queue, then you spend an hour+ (or HOURS if it's a Vet dungeon) going through it, only to reach the final boss and wipe repeatedly, all the while praying that some member of your party doesn't quit in disgust. And all this for some junk gear that you can't use and with no real financial reward. And you can't even sell the junk gear you get unless you happen to be in an exclusive trade guild, because there is no auction house.
And PvP is even WORSE. You're dumped on a huge map alone, with no real goal other than "help your alliance." You may then discover that your "alliance" is either hopelessly outnumbered or in complete control of the map already (leaving you with basically nothing to do either way). And, even if you do manage to find a non-lopsided fight, what is your reward? Some Alliance Points that are basically worthless and no XP. Little wonder why so few players participate.
By contrast, coop and PvP in NW is fun and rewarding. Queue waits are minimal. You get great AD just for participating. And the dungeon runs, skirmishes, and PvP matches are well-balanced and don't take a ridiculous investment in time to do. And "fun" is the key word there. I have *FUN* doing coop and PvP in NW. In ESO coop and PvP are a slog, and usually give you no real rewards.
3) The paywall in this game is reasonable and doesn't feel forced on you.
A lot of people complain about this game being P2W. But you forget that even B2P and subscription MMO's have cash shops now with similar offerings. You also don't appreciate that NW is one of the few games that lets you (legally) exchange in-game currency for cash-shop currency and doesn't require you to pay for expansions. Try playing other MMO's for a while and you'll see some REAL paywalls.
4) The story content is rich and deep, but not overwhelming.
The lore and depth are defintely there in this game and you can go as deep as you like into the Forgotten Realms D&D mythology that goes back decades. But it never gets in the way of play or feels overwhelming, unlike with ESO or many other MMO's.
5) The console community is active and thriving.
This is probably the only MMO I've ever seen with a thriving Xbox community. Most other MMO's are either PC-only (with all the attendent "master race" nonsense) or have relatively weak console communities. If you play ESO or Elite Dangerous on an Xbox or PS4, you're always treated like a second-class citizen. In NW, the console community seems to be much more respected.
6) The auction house makes buying and selling easy.
Other MMO's have auction houses, but many (including ESO) don't. To sell anything in ESO, you have to be a member of a decent trade guild (most of which have very expensive weekly dues). Otherwise, your only choice to sell any gear is to get a pittance for it at a merchant or stand on a street corner hawking it in chat.
So having said all that, there are some things I wish were better. Though they pale in comparison to the "pluses," IMHO:
1) It's not as "open world" as ESO and some other MMO's.
This doesn't bother me so much. The maps in NW are plenty big enough for me, and the "exploration" in most MMO's is overrated anyway. You get bigger maps in open-world games, but they're usually just big empty spaces anyway. There is no real reward in most MMO's for exploration. Elite Dangerous is the perfect example of this. A whole galaxy to explore just to see same few dozen planets and stars over-and-over again.
2) I wish there was a more active online community for the game.
I do wish there were some podcasts, more websites, etc. dedicated to NW. This games deserves much more attention than it gets.
3) There are WAY too may currencies in this game.
Whatever the reasoning, there had to be a better way to do it than this. I feel like I need an encyclodpedia just to keep up with all the different currencies in this game and where to spend them.
Anyway, that's my take on the game so far. Will I still feel the same way a year from now? Don't know. But I'm sure enjoying it right now. And as soon as I get some money coming in, I plan on buying a mount and VIP access just as a way to say thanks to the developers for a fun game.
Here are the big things this game does RIGHT, and the big reasons I prefer it:
1) As a newb, I don't feel hopelessly behind in this game.
In ESO and most other MMO's, it can take months (or even years) for a casual newb to reach end-game content. And the "grind" to end-level is a NIGHTMARE. I've played ESO since launch and I *STILL* feel hopelessly behind in the game. If you're not playing 10 hours a day and buying every expansion that comes out, you're ALWAYS hopelessly behind. And your guildies treat you like dirt if you don't have the latest expansion pack and the new Super Awesome Helm of Something that you can only get by grinding the new Super Hard Dungeon of Woe about a million times.
In this game, I've never felt that end-game is hopelessly out of reach. Level progression so far has been quite reasonable, even after level 60. Everyone complaining about the 60-70 "grind" in NW has obviously never experienced the grind of doing Vet levels in ESO. Imagine grinding every day for a week and barely seeing your level progression bar move. Now THAT's a grind.
2) The coop and PvP elements of this game are fun, rewarding, and easy to get into.
Let me paint a picture of what coop and PvP is like in ESO. To do a coop dungeon, you wait FOREVER in a queue, then you spend an hour+ (or HOURS if it's a Vet dungeon) going through it, only to reach the final boss and wipe repeatedly, all the while praying that some member of your party doesn't quit in disgust. And all this for some junk gear that you can't use and with no real financial reward. And you can't even sell the junk gear you get unless you happen to be in an exclusive trade guild, because there is no auction house.
And PvP is even WORSE. You're dumped on a huge map alone, with no real goal other than "help your alliance." You may then discover that your "alliance" is either hopelessly outnumbered or in complete control of the map already (leaving you with basically nothing to do either way). And, even if you do manage to find a non-lopsided fight, what is your reward? Some Alliance Points that are basically worthless and no XP. Little wonder why so few players participate.
By contrast, coop and PvP in NW is fun and rewarding. Queue waits are minimal. You get great AD just for participating. And the dungeon runs, skirmishes, and PvP matches are well-balanced and don't take a ridiculous investment in time to do. And "fun" is the key word there. I have *FUN* doing coop and PvP in NW. In ESO coop and PvP are a slog, and usually give you no real rewards.
3) The paywall in this game is reasonable and doesn't feel forced on you.
A lot of people complain about this game being P2W. But you forget that even B2P and subscription MMO's have cash shops now with similar offerings. You also don't appreciate that NW is one of the few games that lets you (legally) exchange in-game currency for cash-shop currency and doesn't require you to pay for expansions. Try playing other MMO's for a while and you'll see some REAL paywalls.
4) The story content is rich and deep, but not overwhelming.
The lore and depth are defintely there in this game and you can go as deep as you like into the Forgotten Realms D&D mythology that goes back decades. But it never gets in the way of play or feels overwhelming, unlike with ESO or many other MMO's.
5) The console community is active and thriving.
This is probably the only MMO I've ever seen with a thriving Xbox community. Most other MMO's are either PC-only (with all the attendent "master race" nonsense) or have relatively weak console communities. If you play ESO or Elite Dangerous on an Xbox or PS4, you're always treated like a second-class citizen. In NW, the console community seems to be much more respected.
6) The auction house makes buying and selling easy.
Other MMO's have auction houses, but many (including ESO) don't. To sell anything in ESO, you have to be a member of a decent trade guild (most of which have very expensive weekly dues). Otherwise, your only choice to sell any gear is to get a pittance for it at a merchant or stand on a street corner hawking it in chat.
So having said all that, there are some things I wish were better. Though they pale in comparison to the "pluses," IMHO:
1) It's not as "open world" as ESO and some other MMO's.
This doesn't bother me so much. The maps in NW are plenty big enough for me, and the "exploration" in most MMO's is overrated anyway. You get bigger maps in open-world games, but they're usually just big empty spaces anyway. There is no real reward in most MMO's for exploration. Elite Dangerous is the perfect example of this. A whole galaxy to explore just to see same few dozen planets and stars over-and-over again.
2) I wish there was a more active online community for the game.
I do wish there were some podcasts, more websites, etc. dedicated to NW. This games deserves much more attention than it gets.
3) There are WAY too may currencies in this game.
Whatever the reasoning, there had to be a better way to do it than this. I feel like I need an encyclodpedia just to keep up with all the different currencies in this game and where to spend them.
Anyway, that's my take on the game so far. Will I still feel the same way a year from now? Don't know. But I'm sure enjoying it right now. And as soon as I get some money coming in, I plan on buying a mount and VIP access just as a way to say thanks to the developers for a fun game.
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Comments
Most people that complain are either ex-mod 5 players (like me) who remember the synergy of the old system and compare it to the present, which is just, well, cheaper - or are overly competitive pubescents who resent someone else getting a higher paingiver score than them and want everyone nerfed except for their class.
On the whole it's a good game. The one thing I would want Cryptic to do is engage more fully in two-way discussions with the community, it's the one thing they have always been truly bad at.
Xael De Armadeon: DC
Xane De Armadeon: CW
Zen De Armadeon: OP
Zohar De Armadeon: TR
Chrion De Armadeon: SW
Gosti Big Belly: GWF
Barney McRustbucket: GF
Lt. Thackeray: HR
Lucius De Armadeon: BD
Member of Casual Dailies - XBox
However people seem to love to cry that it's hard getting past 2500-2800, yet fail to commit to their character, don't have the boons and are utter failures in edemo / tiamat. Getting to 3k and beyond requires commitment, hence the 3k+ groups, the high level content requires smart play by players that understand their characters and their roles and the situation they are in.
I made 70 in a few weeks, and went from 1.7 to 2.5 in about 2 months. I've spent the past month or two building my companion set and finally getting the epic mount I've been after. Consequently my IL has barely risen, (in fact at one point it dropped as I swapped some stuff out for gear that gave my powers and boons more pazaz.)
In that time I've also finished many of the campaigns and built boons so while my IL hasn't changed greatly, my TR now hits far harder, and stays alive far longer.
I *could* have dumped a bunch of cash and bought the mount, and companions in one day and ground out for tons of refinement. And while I do buy Zen every now and then, its more as a donation to the game than a serious attempt to buy gear.
Like the OP says, NWO is one of the best options for anyone who likes the idea of time rich/cash poor players being just as important to the economy as cash rich/time poor players who throw money into their coffers.
without grinding players farming the AD for the well off to trade, and the items they then buy... NWO would slowly die.
The only way I foresee myself dropping out is when STO comes out in a couple of months.
Like pallmor says, its de rigeur to slag the game on its own forums for every perceived slight, but in my opinion, NWO is one the best games available on XBONE.
ESO has good graphics and nice colors, also its an open world mmo but beside that I could not find any decent reason to play it.
If just one of the better mmos out there make it to console, I dont think the current ones will survive.
I loved Skyrim for 360, and was all ready to buy ESO, but after my Destiny experience decided to look into the real costs.
It did look very expensive, and then someone pointed me to NW. I expected to play for a few weeks then hit the pay wall. But then I realised that I could trade AD for Zen...
The thing is, any games company could run a similar F2P model, but it would need to be a HAMSTER hot game that has a lot of game play and captures the imagination of its player base.
But more importantly, it would need to be understood that most of the player base will be subsidised by a smaller number of players.
I often read on here about how PW are only interested in forcing open everyone's wallet. But I have never felt that. And the fact that the Zen market never dries up is testament to how the system works well.
The only times you need to buy zen are if you either;
a) want something in a hurry
b) don't have the time to grind
c) want to contribute to the game designer.
Any other time you can grind the AD and trade for zen...
I'm in the UK and since starting I've spent hundreds of pounds worth of zen, but bought less than a hundred pounds worth. But the designers' don't mind, because they realise that people like me provide the people actually buying those zen with a reason for buying it.
I've never felt the slightest pressure to pay to play or that PW are trying to raid my wallet.
I even got a nice-looking Shadow Wolf out of the CTA. And I would have gotten that water horse too if I hadn't came in on the tail-end of the Summer Festival.
Even for an internet forum for a computer game, the rage is quite astonishing.
I think people forget the events are bonus material.
Just check the "grrr where are my double AD???? It's not fair!!!!!!!" threads.
I've decided to ignore the calendar, and if a useful double event happens, so much the better.
It might mean slower progress, but it looks like the alternative runs the risk of needing prescription beta blockers.
I've played for about 16 months, almost since release on xbox and I've spent maybe $20, all on keys & that was in the 1st couple of weeks.
I actually like the 1-60 levelling content, I've done it 8 times now. 60-70 is easier now we don't have to repeat vigilance tasks, just run the 8x3 and move on. getting to 2.6k is very easy now I understand what I'm doing and have resources that I can transfer over - getting from there to 3k requires a 2x RP and enough AD + refinement which means taking a bit of time (depending on how long you have to wait & how much AD you can generate).
But the thing is an mmo is supposed to take months to get properly geared, if you need instant gratification then you should play FPS games.
Xael De Armadeon: DC
Xane De Armadeon: CW
Zen De Armadeon: OP
Zohar De Armadeon: TR
Chrion De Armadeon: SW
Gosti Big Belly: GWF
Barney McRustbucket: GF
Lt. Thackeray: HR
Lucius De Armadeon: BD
Member of Casual Dailies - XBox
I chose to join a low level guild because I'll get more long term gameplay out of helping get to the good stuff. That's my choice, and I could have gone for easier access through a higher guild, but as much as I want to be able to stand my ground on CN, its more important to me that I enjoy the process of getting there.
It seems that a lot of people want to burn through everything quickly, and then complain that there's no more new material, or that then reaching the dizzy heights costs too much cash to continue progressing at the same rate.
Its an unrealistic expectation, and I'll gladly stay a middling 2.5k -2.8k and enjoying the game rather than an angry 3.8k who seems to think the game exists to make them miserable, and that every decision the devs make is some specific attempt to HAMSTER them off.
I played the Paranoia rpg in the 90's... I don't need it for real on an MMO...
Modding NWO is just about a dream ticket for me.
No crying here dude, just stating from my experience. I have a job, a life, a girl. I don't spend 8 hours a day on the game. I'm sure if you did, you would understand where I'm coming from.
If it were easy to move quickly with little play time, then those with lots of available time would still be far ahead of those with little.
The disparity would always exist. It would simply be at a higher level, the end game stuff would be harder, and the players with time/money would get there quicker.
The situation would be the same as it is now, except people would be debating the relative merits of the upcoming L250 armour sets.
MMOs require time investment by their nature. That's not unique to NWO.
If you can't invest either time or money into an MMO you either need to accept that progress will be slow, or find a type of game that better suits your circumstances.
I have a wife, kids, and I'm self employed... 8 hours a WEEK is often the best I can manage, and the fact I have kids limits how much money I have to throw at cartoon horses and magic keys. But I don't expect PW to change their business model to suit my circumstances. I understand the limitations my life imposes on a video game.
Si Vis Pacem 2.5 DC, Jade Shadowbain 2.4 CW, Para Bellum 1.5 GWF, President Not Sure lvl 69 OP
Faith Shadowbain lvl 69 DC, Toof Fairy lvl 68 GWF, Arnie Shadowbain lvl 63 GF
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Neverwinter itself is a fine game but i'm about to take a few weeks to hop into ESO as I've accomplished everything that there is to do as a f2p on neverwinter. The main thing OP has missed in his comparisons is experience in NWs endgame. You will quickly find that all there is to do is statistically improve your character. Theres no epic quest chain that takes weeks to unlock some amazing item, no mounts to grind because they have a tiny drop chance. Just get better stats or cosmetics. Once you've had your fill on both you'll see the content is a bit more shallow than ESO.
Indy - XB1 & PS4 - GF
xeV Indy - PS4 - TR
Nde - XB1 - HR
GT: its indy time
PSN: itsindytime
Twitch: indygoinlive
The Kanye West of Neverwinter
Unfortunately, (and, it seems, especially in internetland) that's simply not the case.
Opinions often stem from preconceived misconceptions, and ill informed partisan stances.
Opinions can, in fact, be utter nonsense whether the person voicing them has a right to state them or not.
One of the most popular online opinions is that one person's dissatisfaction with something is the inevitable outcome for everyone who experiences that thing... and that by voicing their "opinion" to that end makes it a fact.
The idea that one persons bad experience will inevitably be shared by everyone else... that's as close to nonsense as it gets.. cos it makes no sense.
Xael De Armadeon: DC
Xane De Armadeon: CW
Zen De Armadeon: OP
Zohar De Armadeon: TR
Chrion De Armadeon: SW
Gosti Big Belly: GWF
Barney McRustbucket: GF
Lt. Thackeray: HR
Lucius De Armadeon: BD
Member of Casual Dailies - XBox
Alts :
Storm (SW70), Edge (TR70), AD Farm (CW70), Grunt (GF70), Rosa (DC70), AD AD AD (GWF70), Your Mum (OP70)
Member of Q-Snipe
If you are queuing for something that needs X tanks and healers then yeah, more dungeons would probably mean longer queues. But dungeons designed for primary DPS might possibly get more people queuing.
I read the other day that the Foundry idea may have been shelved, but if it ever does come to XBONE I'll show you what I mean.
If the STO Foundry is coming as part of the XB package, I can only hope that people use it and PW see how having User Created Material can help bring vitality to a game.