Killer PVE SW HR

kievitz

Sume's killer PVE SW HR at work

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cn3ratFQAT8

jonkoca

Thanx sume for posting this, and I can vouch for sume's build and playstyle, I went on a cn run with him and 3 other HRs, he came top in the paingiver, I came second, but more importantly... He did DOUBLE the damage I did.

In the last "party buffer" role it's longshot, binding and hawkeye..? Two melee party buffs for cd reductions right..?

marnival

First what pets and augments was used ? As we all know by now leg companion + bounding 12-11-10 can Easley count for 50+ % of the damage. Then we have the SH boons they stand for 22 rank 12 enchants or 16k stats. Its kind of hard to judge the damage between Hr;s without simular set ups are used.

jonkoca

There's not much diff. Between me and sume, he's SW, I'm PF, I use leg. shadow demon with 10,11,12 bondings, he uses a bard I think, his crit is better, my pow is better. Both full trapper. SH boons I use 7k pow and LS. Trans dread.

It is his playstyle that makes the difference.

jaegernl

Excellent video. My thanks. While I consider myself an above average HR, I often struggle at explaining proper rotation and use of the feats when people ask me for pointers. This video shows the versatility and power of the HR nicely.

With Sume's permission of course, I'd suggest this video be used in builds or guides for Trapper HR's, as - past a certain gear threshold - rotation becomes everything. I pug a lot, and often run into Trapper HRs that struggle on the damage front. Lately I've even run into people who call the HR a useless class. They've obviously never seen a good HR in action.

durugudesu

jaegernl said:

Excellent video. My thanks. While I consider myself an above average HR, I often struggle at explaining proper rotation and use of the feats when people ask me for pointers. This video shows the versatility and power of the HR nicely.

With Sume's permission of course, I'd suggest this video be used in builds or guides for Trapper HR's, as - past a certain gear threshold - rotation becomes everything. I pug a lot, and often run into Trapper HRs that struggle on the damage front. Lately I've even run into people who call the HR a useless class. They've obviously never seen a good HR in action.

I wouldn't call you an above average HR, as you have already grasped what needs to be grasped way way back. XD

All the more reason to play on your HR more! hurray!

durugudesu

jonkoca said:

It is his playstyle that makes the difference.

Still think that same geared other classes are better than HRs?

kievitz

Sume has posted his SW Trapper build in his youtube account videos, check there for more info, he has some good videos about how to utilize HRs full potential.

lirithiel

Awesome video Sume, ty. I am a bit confused though. Watching you play normal Trapper with Constricting, Longstrider's and Cordon, I noticed to you apply two stacks of melee and ranged (I assume you are running with AotS). I was told in another thread that you need to apply 4 stacks of melee/ranged for AotS to be fully buffed. So which is it, or are you somehow applying four stacks and not two?

marnival

Its a very educating video done with with no small amount of step by step concept for easy understanding, well done indeed.

I myself have no SH boons and use a similar set up but am also PF and as I was pvping when i got new artifact i picked water so my power is way behind.

Lets just hope they give us some more base damage without HAMSTER up the class in any changes like they have a habit to do :-)...

Keep up the good work and once again tnx for a truly awesome video....

soonergm

@lirithiel you can only apply up to two stacks. You can see your stacks in the buff bar. Try it out, to build ranged stacks all you'll have to do is swing your blades a few times. To build melee stacks you'll need to fire at a test dummy.

lirithiel

soonergm said:

@lirithiel you can only apply up to two stacks. You can see your stacks in the buff bar. Try it out, to build ranged stacks all you'll have to do is swing your blades a few times. To build melee stacks you'll need to fire at a test dummy.

I'll try to clarify. I see Sume opening with Longstrider -> Constricting (2 ranged stacks) -> Plant Growth -> Steel Breeze (2 melee stacks) -> rinse, repeat. I was told you also need to toss in 2 at-wills after the first 2 stacks, as the first 2 attacks consume them so you need to build up 2 stacks again before switching stances.

My playstyle was the same as Sume's - 2 ranged followed by 2 melee followed by 2 ranged etc etc but was told I was not utilising Aspect of the Serpent to its full capability.

flyingleon

I think to full utilise aspect of the serpent, it is hard to keep up the long strider buff up time. But yes, in my experience, you need 4 attacks to keep up two stacks of aspect of the serpent, because first two attacks only consumes the serpent stacks if you already have 2 stacks from opposite stance.

wdj40

Yeah, Sume's video did point out that "Of course building AtoS stacks matters too. But for the sake of this demonstration I did not stop to fire At Wills or Cordon".

Most of the video is demonstrations of how things work and is an extremely good video

jonkoca

Depends where you start. Let's call range "up" and melee "down".

Say you begin a combat at zero. Longs. + constrict 2up, melee fully buffed. Plant + breeze 2 down. Back to zero. So Sume's rotation fully buffs plantgrowth which is I think our hardest hitter. Adding 4 atwills, which are sucky damage into the rotation to bridge the up/down stacks gap to fully buff the ranged side would, given our high turnover of encounters, probably end up doing less damage than sume's current melee only buff rotation.

reefriednunt

Can anyone post screenshots off his feats and what powers, and what rotation?

flyingleon

I had the time to watch it in details in last few days. I call this is a very original rotation and very helpful for party damage due to longstrider. It is also very strong for personal damage. I am still new to HR, I don't know if other widely used rotations could match this damage wise.

dfnce

reefriednunt#3177 said:

Can anyone post screenshots off his feats and what powers, and what rotation?

Complete build and gear inspection at end of this video.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=pyg7l66lARA

Key element is not rotation, but positioning:

1. Move to 30+ feat distance with clear LoS to enemy target
2. Longstrider Shot => LS buff
3. Plant Growth (with buffs LS/2 melee stacks of Serpent/Deft/Master Trapper)
4. Gushing Wound

Stacks of Serpent, Deft Strike (granted for Plant) and Master Trapper for Plans (granted with Constructing Arrow => roots => Biting Snares => switch stance) add substantial boost value but effectiveness of LS buff beat everything else. LS compensates downtime when you have to move back and forward to target (or group of targets).

My commentary of pve play style in solo with it - it might be clunky with fast melee opponents, dispersion negates effectiveness of aoe effects. But when you have mixed melee and ranger opponents, kit melee from ranger attackers, keep enemy ranger alive at distance to very end, use target for easy LS buff and you don't need to move back-forward much.

wdj40

This is pretty much exactly what I have been doing for a long time on the Xbox now

Two big difference's between me and Sume really is that I use Hindering Shot/Strike in place of CoA/PG. I also am Pathfinder instead of Stormwarden. My passives are AtoS and AotP (buffed with Off-Hand).

I maximise my Hindering Strike in most cases with the Longstrider buff/Deft Strike/Master Trapper etc. In big boss battles though for me Careful Attack is up, so instead of making the most out of Hindering Strike I focus on maximising my Ranged Encounters etc and jump in for quick melee attacks with Slasher's Mark Hindering Strike/Steel Breeze/Gushing Wound and back out to Ranged.

phelpz4

So I finally took the plunge and swapped from PF to SW. Problem im having is after doing the same rotations my encounters are usually on cool down fore 1-3 seconds. Is there a minimum recovery I need to be aiming for? And should I be using any at-wills in between stance swap (tab)? Thanks!

soonergm

you need to be sure that you are hitting enough enemies to reset your cool downs completely. for example, if there are only 2 enemies left, then you run in to the issue of having a few seconds remaining. most of the time i have little to 0 recovery.

phelpz4

Ahh ok thanks for the help! Next question is do you think he has dark enchants in his utilities? I seem to be so much slower running around but I don't want to give up my dragon hoards

durugudesu

yes dark on utility is your best option, it is a little boost of movespeed, but movespeed nonetheless.

aaramis75

1 or 2 dragon hoards in utilities (depending on the rank of them); 1 fey blessing; the rest dark, imo.

Gladiator's Guile mount insignia power helps too (+15%), as does an active mount with +movement (although I prefer +crit, but to each their own).

jonkoca

Actually, call me a heretic, but after using sume's rotation for a couple of weeks...

In Tiamat, cordon, constrict and longstrider, switching out cordon for split the sky on the heads is the best you can do. Same goes for dragonflight.

However, elsewhere, for me and my build at least, foxes, constrict and hindering, with bladestorm and serpents, serpents feated OH, does better in the paingiver race. Why..? You don't have to pop in and out, everything can be fired point blank. The rotation itself revolves much faster, four up, four down - foxes and constrict being hit at 2 stacks of serpents. 2 sets of roots hit more targets, fox buff keeps you alive-ish.

Also, though a bit selfish, you are not buffing your teamates' (competitors) damage, though you do give them free dodges every few seconds which makes up for it, well, maybe.

I dunno, Sume, you wanna go on another run sometime..?

flyingleon

For me, longstrider buff (40%+) is much bigger than aspect of serpent buff. With longstrider, the roots damage from constricting is always buffed. If you are fast enough, melee encouters too. The buff is across whole map around me, which makes me feel even more powerful.

Jumping in and out certainly demands a bit work. I feel the pain some time. But 40%+ buff for all, the additional work pays off.

durugudesu

flyingleon said:

For me, longstrider buff (40%+) is much bigger than aspect of serpent buff. With longstrider, the roots damage from constricting is always buffed. If you are fast enough, melee encouters too. The buff is across whole map around me, which makes me feel even more powerful.



Jumping in and out certainly demands a bit work. I feel the pain some time. But 40%+ buff for all, the additional work pays off.

yes it is worth it, especially if team is lacking damage buffs.

jhpnw

The use of Longstriders is situational there are some rotations that are more reliable buffs and do more dps. A lot depends on the battle. Dragon runs tia and DF can have lag and with lag buff from longstriders is very un reliable. Also party composition plays a lot in use of Longstriders. HR can be great DPS or great buffer it depends on party needs.

lirithiel

I cannot think of another HR buff that provides close to 40% extra damage. Mind filling us in?

soonergm

i would think that longstriders would be even more important and effective in the larger group content, such as dragon heralds, tiamat, and dragon flight, not less. i mean, 40% for 20-40 people? yes please!

jhpnw

To clarify I have not see any Act logs for parties that support 40% damage increase. tho I have not but briefly looked into this . Some other more reliable buffs are fox ,binding and thorn ward. Which Im not sharing ang big secret about. Though you can cancel TW in error.
When you hit a lot of lag especially in Dragon runs the longsriders is so hard to get and your dps drags way down you can bring it back up with lots of quick encounters like constrict cordon sezmic and binding. with binding you keep your ranged encounters ready to go full time. And I don't see much buffs in running act in Our Dragon flight on Longstriders as it is Claimed I can run A dragon flight same group using LongS and run another right behind it with out and I don't see that much damage change. This Friday I will record some Act logs 1 run with LongS constriction cordon and 1 run with out using constricting cordon and Binding see how party dps varies