You may as well remove Demogorgon now.

ogarious

I am pissed. Either remove the penalty for leaving Demogorgon or dont allow people to leave the match at all til it's done. 3 people left because the other 7 quit and we still got f@#$ing penalties. That is just HAMSTER. This is some of the worst design ideas I have ever thought of in a MMO.

Honestly, if you really want penalties in this game so damn badly. Why dont you put penalties in the beginning of the matches for Throne of the Dwarven Gods and the Prophecy of Madness, for the people that queue up, wait for it to pop, get in the match, then quit right away.

I hate this content. And yet the devs are busy making more of it.

What a failure. This makes me want to punch a puppy in the face.

urabask

defiantone99 said:

Not allowing people to leave would just create teams of AFKers, like we already have. The penalty needs to be removed, it is a PVP penalty and not good for PVE.

IMO the penalty isn't harsh enough. 25 minutes is low enough that people are willing to leave if anything goes wrong.

If AFKing is a problem they can just add a penalty for staying in the spawn area for a certain amount of time.

ogarious said:

I am pissed. Either remove the penalty for leaving Demogorgon or dont allow people to leave the match at all til it's done. 3 people left because the other 7 quit and we still got f@#$ing penalties. That is just HAMSTER. This is some of the worst design ideas I have ever thought of in a MMO.

Honestly, if you really want penalties in this game so damn badly. Why dont you put penalties in the beginning of the matches for Throne of the Dwarven Gods and the Prophecy of Madness, for the people that queue up, wait for it to pop, get in the match, then quit right away.

I hate this content. And yet the devs are busy making more of it.

What a failure. This makes me want to punch a puppy in the face.

Throne isn't worth getting mad over. Just leave if it begins with the phase that's impossible to get gold in. That's what everyone else is doing. Just because you're fine wasting 15+ minutes to get silver doesn't mean everyone else has to be.

rayrdan

the point is that the penalty is limited to the character you were playing...
another point is that there is at least a way to leave demogorgon without penalty. I dont know how much this way is known but still

zibadawa

ogarious said:

I am pissed. Either remove the penalty for leaving Demogorgon or dont allow people to leave the match at all til it's done. 3 people left because the other 7 quit and we still got f@#$ing penalties. That is just HAMSTER. This is some of the worst design ideas I have ever thought of in a MMO.

Honestly, if you really want penalties in this game so damn badly. Why dont you put penalties in the beginning of the matches for Throne of the Dwarven Gods and the Prophecy of Madness, for the people that queue up, wait for it to pop, get in the match, then quit right away.

I hate this content. And yet the devs are busy making more of it.

What a failure. This makes me want to punch a puppy in the face.

Switching to another character works, which is what a lot of people do. Just play another toon until the instance expires. There's another extremely obvious solution when you notice it, but let's continue to habit of refusing to state it lest the devs remove one of the few ways we have to mitigate their bad design.

For those wanting to make the queue ban account wide, that's a dumb idea. As soon as you get disconnected mid-instance you'll be super pissed that now you've been effectively banned from playing most of the game. With DDoS attacks and general server instabilities, as well as random outages of your own service, this is a pretty common problem.

As for PoM and Throne, don't hate the player, hate the game. One instance of throne is bugged and is impossible to get gold on. Which means you run a significant risk of not getting the extra ring from completion. Losing out on 3k or more rAD is NOT worth that. Ditch the non-bubble version like everyone else. And while you can get a final rank of gold in PoM (unlike demogorgon you don't need gold on every stage--close to gold on the first two stages and gold on the balor suffices), most people find one of the instances more annoying and less likely to succeed than any other. Plus it seems unusually likely that a party ends up with, say, 3+ tanks and healers, which is pretty much guaranteed non-gold if they aren't high-ilvl dps types. The "protect the prophecy" version can get annoying because of the madness and the random and unpredictable sanity wells meaning you could end up spending most of a phase with nothing but your at-wills, so some people like to ditch that even though it's the easiest one to get gold in all stages for. On the other hand, "demonic incursion" is rather difficult to get gold on all stages for, especially the first one, so some people like to ditch that one since it can take most of the first stage to figure out if the group can do well enough to get to a final rank of gold.

So, yeah, don't blame the players. Cryptic screwed up the content, not us. They're the ones who made their "replayable" content gimmick into a "repeatedly ditch the buggy, unenjoyable HAMSTER so you can get to the one version that isn't a frustrating waste of your time" gimmick.

thefabricant

There is a rather obvious solution, which is to stop random queueing and start forming parties, believe it or not, edemo is rather easy and quite enjoyable in premade groups, with a good enough group you can 5 man it quite comfortably.

plasticbat

You probably want to form 2 parties of 5 before entering. It appears there are "dedicated" people going in to shoot into black for "fun". In this case, hate the player.

oldbaldyone

How about making a way to come back from a bad phase (be able to get a bonus in phase 2 to overcome a failed phase 1 for example)? How about giving people some reason to stay till the end of a bad run, like a consolation prize that adds up after 3 fails or something....

I think this largely goes away in mod 9 with formed raids.

flyingleon

I do think it is not only a design problem. There are bronze, silver and gold levels for rewards. I would fight even if we can only get a bronze, but so many people just give up even we still can get silver.

ogarious

urabask said:

defiantone99 said:

Not allowing people to leave would just create teams of AFKers, like we already have. The penalty needs to be removed, it is a PVP penalty and not good for PVE.

IMO the penalty isn't harsh enough. 25 minutes is low enough that people are willing to leave if anything goes wrong.

If AFKing is a problem they can just add a penalty for staying in the spawn area for a certain amount of time.

ogarious said:

I am pissed. Either remove the penalty for leaving Demogorgon or dont allow people to leave the match at all til it's done. 3 people left because the other 7 quit and we still got f@#$ing penalties. That is just HAMSTER. This is some of the worst design ideas I have ever thought of in a MMO.

Honestly, if you really want penalties in this game so damn badly. Why dont you put penalties in the beginning of the matches for Throne of the Dwarven Gods and the Prophecy of Madness, for the people that queue up, wait for it to pop, get in the match, then quit right away.

I hate this content. And yet the devs are busy making more of it.

What a failure. This makes me want to punch a puppy in the face.

Throne isn't worth getting mad over. Just leave if it begins with the phase that's impossible to get gold in. That's what everyone else is doing. Just because you're fine wasting 15+ minutes to get silver doesn't mean everyone else has to be.

And this right here is the problem. Not the fact that it's not worth getting mad over. Because your right about that. The just leave part. It's silly to think it's ok just to quit out if a gold reward isn't reachable. That's one of the biggest problems with this community. THAT"s why this game and these encounters are failing. Too many people with this attitude.

Which is why the penalty should either be removed altogether or made much stricter. Tell me your just going to leave if the ban becomes 24 hours.

And yeah, I get the part about Cryptic HAMSTER the pooch and some of the encounters are just not gold achievable. But lets be honest here. The programmers of this game have been HAMSTER the pooch since day one. You know it, and I know it. Some of us lived through it with Caturday. But what happens most often is unless your one of the haves, and have busted your way through these encounters on day one. Your never going to get them. You have a growing divide between the players who are high end and those that just cannot compete.

Try and get your elemental fire weapons right now.... The water ones are still achievable. Unless your a member of the 3000IS channel your not going to do a successful Tiamat raid. I haven't heard one of those succeeding in a long time.

ogarious

The point I am trying to make here is that even if the end reward isn't a Gold. It's still something. And it's something that those that are not 3k IS people can use. All these quitters are just HAMSTER over those that are trying to work their way up the gear ladder. So either don't queue for the matches if your just going to quit at the get go, or give it a go even if things are not "perfect". It's ok not to get gold every time.

And you don't have to use those keys if you don't like the reward either.

mrgiggles651

zibadawa said:

One instance of throne is bugged and is impossible to get gold on.

It's not bugged, it's just most people don't know what to do because it's not obvious and you're not actually told what to do ingame. The players are pointed to which gates they need to direct the hulks to, in which order, in order to get gold.

asterotg

ogarious said:

The point I am trying to make here is that even if the end reward isn't a Gold. It's still something. And it's something that those that are not 3k IS people can use. All these quitters are just HAMSTER over those that are trying to work their way up the gear ladder. So either don't queue for the matches if your just going to quit at the get go, or give it a go even if things are not "perfect". It's ok not to get gold every time.

And you don't have to use those keys if you don't like the reward either.

Yea, those 3k IL ppl are chasing gold an leaving, if they cant get it. What a load of bias. 'These' 3k+ ppl can clear the dungeon with 5 ppl, if they know how to play. You dont even need 3k ppl.

As many ppl said before, a decent group with a decent composition can get triple gold without a problem, if the rest of the group does not screw up to badly.

The problem here is neither leavers or IL, but the ltp issue in this game. Ppl opening green portals and saying 'I am an indivdualist, I play how I want'. GFs doing no significant dmg (outdpsed by a DC) refusing to tank or to buff, bc they are 'Dmg GF'. GWFs or tanks keeping Demo on the other side of the map, tanking in the well etc. I could go on and on.

I just hope, that with the new raid system, the leader will be allowed to kick everyone as he sees fit. If the leader abuses it, he wont find others to run with in a short time, but if you que for a raid, done in 7-8 minutes, and you go AFK, you open green portals, you insult other players, you will get kicked. It worked in every other MMPRPG I played. It worked in most premade CN or DK farmruns. Furthermore no one can complain about a kick mode in a premade, bc no one is forced to run full premade and due to personal loot there is no reason for greedy ppl to kick partymembers for their own gain anymore.

urabask

ogarious said:

urabask said:

defiantone99 said:

Not allowing people to leave would just create teams of AFKers, like we already have. The penalty needs to be removed, it is a PVP penalty and not good for PVE.

IMO the penalty isn't harsh enough. 25 minutes is low enough that people are willing to leave if anything goes wrong.

If AFKing is a problem they can just add a penalty for staying in the spawn area for a certain amount of time.

ogarious said:

I am pissed. Either remove the penalty for leaving Demogorgon or dont allow people to leave the match at all til it's done. 3 people left because the other 7 quit and we still got f@#$ing penalties. That is just HAMSTER. This is some of the worst design ideas I have ever thought of in a MMO.

Honestly, if you really want penalties in this game so damn badly. Why dont you put penalties in the beginning of the matches for Throne of the Dwarven Gods and the Prophecy of Madness, for the people that queue up, wait for it to pop, get in the match, then quit right away.

I hate this content. And yet the devs are busy making more of it.

What a failure. This makes me want to punch a puppy in the face.

Throne isn't worth getting mad over. Just leave if it begins with the phase that's impossible to get gold in. That's what everyone else is doing. Just because you're fine wasting 15+ minutes to get silver doesn't mean everyone else has to be.

And this right here is the problem. Not the fact that it's not worth getting mad over. Because your right about that. The just leave part. It's silly to think it's ok just to quit out if a gold reward isn't reachable. That's one of the biggest problems with this community. THAT"s why this game and these encounters are failing. Too many people with this attitude.

Which is why the penalty should either be removed altogether or made much stricter. Tell me your just going to leave if the ban becomes 24 hours.

And yeah, I get the part about Cryptic HAMSTER the pooch and some of the encounters are just not gold achievable. But lets be honest here. The programmers of this game have been HAMSTER the pooch since day one. You know it, and I know it. Some of us lived through it with Caturday. But what happens most often is unless your one of the haves, and have busted your way through these encounters on day one. Your never going to get them. You have a growing divide between the players who are high end and those that just cannot compete.

Try and get your elemental fire weapons right now.... The water ones are still achievable. Unless your a member of the 3000IS channel your not going to do a successful Tiamat raid. I haven't heard one of those succeeding in a long time.

If you're OK with getting silver in a skirmish that's only worth running for the salvage at the end you can just go run HEs in WoD with the zerg. You'll get better rewards and faster.

People leaving throne can see if they got the bad first phase before the skirmish even starts. You just look through the door and if there isn't a purple shield on the throne you leave.

IMO demo is a little different because people quit when there's a few minutes left to finish the thing just because someone hit a black portal in the second phase or some such.

mrgiggles651 said:

zibadawa said:

One instance of throne is bugged and is impossible to get gold on.

It's not bugged, it's just most people don't know what to do because it's not obvious and you're not actually told what to do ingame. The players are pointed to which gates they need to direct the hulks to, in which order, in order to get gold.

Even if you know what you're doing it's still difficult to the point that it's not worth trying to complete that version.

And for a pug it might as well be impossible.

zibadawa

mrgiggles651 said:

It's not bugged, it's just most people don't know what to do because it's not obvious and you're not actually told what to do ingame. The players are pointed to which gates they need to direct the hulks to, in which order, in order to get gold.

Okay, enlighten me as to what I missed, preferably with photos/videos of these subtle instructions as well as a video of people implementing it and getting gold, as I have never seen ANYTHING that suggests there's a precise order to do things in (which is kind of dumb from an implementation standpoint, anyway, but up Cryptic's alley).

mamalion1234

urabask said:

defiantone99 said:

Not allowing people to leave would just create teams of AFKers, like we already have. The penalty needs to be removed, it is a PVP penalty and not good for PVE.

IMO the penalty isn't harsh enough. 25 minutes is low enough that people are willing to leave if anything goes wrong.

If AFKing is a problem they can just add a penalty for staying in the spawn area for a certain amount of time.

ogarious said:

I am pissed. Either remove the penalty for leaving Demogorgon or dont allow people to leave the match at all til it's done. 3 people left because the other 7 quit and we still got f@#$ing penalties. That is just HAMSTER. This is some of the worst design ideas I have ever thought of in a MMO.

Honestly, if you really want penalties in this game so damn badly. Why dont you put penalties in the beginning of the matches for Throne of the Dwarven Gods and the Prophecy of Madness, for the people that queue up, wait for it to pop, get in the match, then quit right away.

I hate this content. And yet the devs are busy making more of it.

What a failure. This makes me want to punch a puppy in the face.

Throne isn't worth getting mad over. Just leave if it begins with the phase that's impossible to get gold in. That's what everyone else is doing. Just because you're fine wasting 15+ minutes to get silver doesn't mean everyone else has to be.

personal i prefer to get silver than to leave till get the corruption. silver can give legendary ring too.

josephskyrim

zibadawa said:

mrgiggles651 said:

It's not bugged, it's just most people don't know what to do because it's not obvious and you're not actually told what to do ingame. The players are pointed to which gates they need to direct the hulks to, in which order, in order to get gold.

Okay, enlighten me as to what I missed, preferably with photos/videos of these subtle instructions as well as a video of people implementing it and getting gold, as I have never seen ANYTHING that suggests there's a precise order to do things in (which is kind of dumb from an implementation standpoint, anyway, but up Cryptic's alley).

The illithid in the middle of the room supposedly points to what door, in order, you need to destroy. The one he points at is where prisoners will start dying if it isn't opened quick. Of course gung ho people usually aggro and kill said illithid and his cronies and then its up to guess work and luck.

mamalion1234

7/10 demogorgon the leavers are the responible for the failure of first phase(silver i mean failure).
Example: paladin keep demorgon away from members correct. But many paladins spam divine calls for perma daily lead : they get aggro and the rest of us chase monsters. or the other renteless avenger so all we can waste our encounters-dailies-att wills.
OOO silver and the bubble guy leaves angry for the rest.

klangeddin

Yeah, this is the typical short sightedness of developers who use draconian measures that end up punishing the victims more than the offenders, not the first time I see something like this in MMORPGs. (or life in general).
There are other ways to handle this problem without the need for a leaver's penalty, one would be to add a way to obtain gold score even if you don't get gold in the first phase (that's what triggers the quitting wave), for example a possible platinum rank for phase 2 and 3 only.
Second thing that could be done would be to allow reinforcements in at any phase like any dungeon instance
And finally, afkers should get the automatic boot from the dungeon if they stand still 2 minutes in spawn area when the fight has begun.
All of this, combined together, would do a lot more for this issue than any potential leaver penalty.

zibadawa

mamalion1234 said:

personal i prefer to get silver than to leave till get the corruption. silver can give legendary ring too.

The issues with getting silver, as we've said, is that you have a non-zero chance of getting no ring at all. There's always one in the chest, but whether or not you get one on completion is a random chance at silver. Accepting silver means accepting you're going to get 3000-6000 less rAD (and one less shot at that legendary). Which simply isn't worth it, in my opinion. All pre-existing lvl 70 skirmishes guarantee at least one salvageable drop with no need for a key, plus a chance at a salvageable drop from the boss, plus a second salvageable drop and a chance at an artifact and/or companion from a second chest if you have a key for it. These don't. If you want to farm them, you've GOT to get that ring from completion, which means you've GOT to get a final rank of gold.

namelesshero347

The penalty should be one hour, account wide. This should incentive people to stay for silver. And maybe make people play a little smarter (I'm looking at you green-trash openers, GFs who don't tank demo, and OPs who tank everything but end up kiting for their lives)

icyphish

I go to Demo, run around to cheer people up, tell stories and tales until the boss is down, and hoorayyy rewardssssss! :>

thefabricant

The reason that people fail edemo is because they random queue, I have failed to get triple gold a sum total of 3 times, 1 was because I decided to random queue when I was bored, the other 2 were because of bugged phase 2. I have over 300 twisted ichor (not that I need it). Its not because of afkers or anything else, its because you chose to let the fate of your run hang on the queue system.

adinosii

Many of those problems should go away with the introduction of Mod 9 - the new queue system will allow you to make 10 people groups (or 25-man groups for Tiamat), so ou can team up with people you know and/or trust.

melodicah

My problem with this type of content is that (in the case of Tiamat anyway), the requirements to enter are too low. There's no way a bunch of 1700 IL people can do this so you end up with people way undergeared who get creamed and contribute very little. Then there's the fact that a first timer has NO CLUE what to do. My first time I just followed people around and hoped that I was in the right place. Then you get all the jerks calling people names because they did this wrong or didn't do that. Well, what if they had no idea what to do? I've seen people ask for instructions and nobody bothers giving any. Then there's the AFK'ers, etc etc.

The entire system is flawed really. There is very little chance of success, and that's why I don't even bother anymore. It's not worth the frustration.

fantasycharacter

ogarious said:

It's ok not to get gold every time.

Thank you!

If you can't handle the PuG lottery, don't play the PuG lottery.

I play every instance out.

ghoulz66

If the DEVs would fix the rigged 1st phase in throne we wouldn't have people leaving every second. Even with two 4k people you still somehow manage to get bronze on the hulk phase.

wylonus

here other things that we should know and be aware of other players who might not interested for rewards, but "just for thrills of GRIEFING", some just intentally to mess up others or to force failed, and then they zone out laughing.
i really hate that.

same problem with Taimat, let devs to know better next time, no more "BIG EVENTS" with multiple groups, this alway fails, it wasnt designed as they would thought the players would have motivations to win, they wasnt expecting few players who can ruin and waste so many times and amount of time running when honest players going back in hope of winning the right way.

having the fails mean very bitter taste and made the event very unpopular. this is why we need "Guild style" events, everquest 2's raids concept are successful for 12x/24x players format.

dragonflight was the first attempt for guild run events. it is better to have guild run events to redesign tiamat and demogorgons, and if the other guilds are having problems to get it running since some guilds are too small.

my proposal is to have "Alliances" with several smaller guilds to work together and support each other.

just my opinion, just for guild only specific zones without any form of random pick ups and keeping other tiamat and demo zones for open raid and pick ups.

devs, no one likes to toss 10-15 potions to stay alive and went out zone failed and empty handed for nothing for the efforts. no rewards mean lot of angry "f" raised at devs for making this problems, it get expensive.

namelesshero347

ogarious said:

It's ok not to get gold every time.

And you don't have to use those keys if you don't like the reward either.

For a player working on getting twisted weapon as soon as possible, they won't settle for anything less than gold. Each silver reward collected means another day of waiting. Staying would be a waste of time. Rewarding two ichors only on gold creates the incentive to cut losses and bail. If there was a decent random chance to get two ichors on silver, then more people would stay.

zekethesinner

Ppl leave, coz its no point to lose more time than needed on pugs with no aiming skills, no dps, both or just trolls.

I see this that way: if u cant have worthy input, dont join, u r just destroying my experience, tho i do only 5man premades usually, 4 other ppl i can trust do they job, even if next 5 ppl will just be trolls or worthless.

I have other idea, give us 5man edemo, with 10x hp and 10x chance for ring (so 0.1%), we still will do it, and pugs may scream on each other for being weeklings.

So far i saw plenty of pugs entering on 2.5k IL (2.5k il made from literally scraps, just to enter), out of all those, i literally found one worthy player, DC with hp set, actually doing something, tho he changed set to HP after entering and droped under 2.4k IL. rest of those pugs spend more time dead than running, not mentioning attacking. Sorry but no sorry, u enter to leech, u dont deserve my time.

(Sin)cerely
Kain

durugudesu

thefabricant said:

There is a rather obvious solution, which is to stop random queueing and start forming parties, believe it or not, edemo is rather easy and quite enjoyable in premade groups, with a good enough group you can 5 man it quite comfortably.

i don't get it why people solo queue and then rant about it. go form a group and tada, more chances of winning with less chance of getting people who solo queue for reasons of wanting to win without working for it.