Cruel Recovery don't work? Or does not stack?

arcofortep12

My toon seems unaffected, or it's just 1%? So bad.

chroococci

It doesn´t stack

rayrdan

arcofortep12 said:

chroococci said:

It doesn´t stack

How is it possible to conceive such a Class Feature? I can understand 10% but 1%?

its one of the thing i will never stop to complain about.
HR does not have
1) good survivability
2) good damage

to avoid to deal excessively low damage you have to slot offensive class features, hence survivability goes to 0 (no aspect of the lone wolf).
to avoid to die like a powrie you have to slot defensive class features ( like lone wolf and cruel recovery ) but then damage sucks even harder.

In both cases you gave up on crashing roots...the only reason people bring you in their party.

Even deciding that the second sacrifice is worth it, class feature on the paper excellent like cruel recovery do not stack and are halved in pvp....0.5% temp HP? seriously?

the class really needs hard buffs if not a rework.

PS: please avoid to select some posts as "answer". The order of the posts gets messed hard.

aaramis75

Survivability is good on Combat, due to the boosts to lifesteal and deflect. But for Archery or Trapper, it's rubbish. I'm finding in groups if I draw aggro, I'm in trouble, especially if the mob is immune to control effects - I can't shift far enough to really outrun anything, and my deflect/lifesteal isn't high enough to make a huge difference.

I also find if I need to get somewhere asap, I'm in trouble. On a demo run, for instance, I can easily dodge roll into a sanity well on my TR, but on HR I often can't make it in time and get butchered.

It's sad that we have a dozen or so powers with defensive benefits, but half of them aren't worth having (Boar Hide, Oak Skin, Stag Heart, Battlehoned, Cruel Revovery). Fox is the only one that's half-decent, but then you're slotting a power for ONE dodged attack - which doesn't help you when a Nalfeshnee and 2 Glabrezu are on you.

rayrdan

aaramis75 said:

Survivability is good on Combat, due to the boosts to lifesteal and deflect. But for Archery or Trapper, it's rubbish. I'm finding in groups if I draw aggro, I'm in trouble, especially if the mob is immune to control effects - I can't shift far enough to really outrun anything, and my deflect/lifesteal isn't high enough to make a huge difference.

I also find if I need to get somewhere asap, I'm in trouble. On a demo run, for instance, I can easily dodge roll into a sanity well on my TR, but on HR I often can't make it in time and get butchered.

It's sad that we have a dozen or so powers with defensive benefits, but half of them aren't worth having (Boar Hide, Oak Skin, Stag Heart, Battlehoned, Cruel Revovery). Fox is the only one that's half-decent, but then you're slotting a power for ONE dodged attack - which doesn't help you when a Nalfeshnee and 2 Glabrezu are on you.

This. the only thing worst than hr talking about survivability is hellbringer sw but its already different story if you are soulbinder.

wdj40

I don't get it, my HR on the Xbox has massive amounts of survivability and I can solo most things except the Epic T2 Dungeons, even the 15 man HE's in the SH I can solo fairly easily now. I also generally top the DPS charts in whatever I run (lately Demo) unless a well built GWF and very rarely well built SW are in the group.

Oak Skin is fantastic with the right Build, you can make it a damaging power as well as combat healing + personal DR % increase of around 12%. It also synergises with other classes that buff etc when healing them (like a Pally).

Cruel Recovery Passive is not very good due to that low 1%... But if you take the Off-Hand Weapon Class Feature Cruel Recovery, it does make the Passive a whole lot better. 0.5% healing on every Crit is pretty sweet for high crit builds.

Both Oak Skin and Cruel Recovery Off-Hand synergise well with an Earth Archon Companion.

jaegernl

aaramis75 said:

Survivability is good on Combat, due to the boosts to lifesteal and deflect. But for Archery or Trapper, it's rubbish. I'm finding in groups if I draw aggro, I'm in trouble, especially if the mob is immune to control effects - I can't shift far enough to really outrun anything, and my deflect/lifesteal isn't high enough to make a huge difference.

I also find if I need to get somewhere asap, I'm in trouble. On a demo run, for instance, I can easily dodge roll into a sanity well on my TR, but on HR I often can't make it in time and get butchered.

Right now, my HR is at a point where I'm perfectly comfortable pugging eDemo and surviving nicely, even when I do draw agro. The Psychotic Break - the zone-wide stun - can be an issue if a mob is casting a red zone on the point where you're stunned, but that's out of your hands, and getting killed at that point probably happens for a lot of 'squishy' classes.

Generally, cycling through my encounters as fast as I can (Constricting/Cordon/Hindering) and relying on lifesteal is enough. I do bounce and shift around a lot, making sure I stay just out of mob range. Lifesteal really is key when it comes to survivability, and stacking it on HR isn't really that hard. Forest Ghost will also help.

When it comes to the 'Seek shelter in a sanity well!' moments in Demo: They're on a fixed pattern at the Goristro stage. The first one will happen after the first charge Goristro makes, and then happens roughly on the 3rd, 5th, etc. Saving your Longstriders for that moment works, or you could hover between the closest sanity well and the yellow rune of the wall, in case he does charge you. If you're Pathfinder, applying Slasher's Mark and a DoT will give you a bunch of stamina for nigh-endless dodges. The Forest Ghost + Longstriders combination is the bigger speed boost, though.

aaramis75 said:

Fox is the only one that's half-decent, but then you're slotting a power for ONE dodged attack - which doesn't help you when a Nalfeshnee and 2 Glabrezu are on you.

arcofortep12 said:

As you said one attack dodged will not change anything, that Power is a waste.

The classification of 'useless' when it comes to Fox is way off. It's been a valuable tool in the HR's arsenal for many mods now. A friend and ally. Sure, Fox's Cunning - the dodge - has it's flaws (just *one* dodge) but it is an excellent defensive tool for slow, hard hitting mobs when you know their rotation, and have a solid rotation yourself. It's a great asset when you're face-tanking Lostmauth and other dragons, or ELOL's Scorpions.

It's melee side - Fox Shift - is an even bigger asset. It's damage is alright, but the value of it lies in it's immunity frames. Triggering it will make you immune to incoming damage and any added CC effect while you're slashing through mobs. It's duration is short, sure, and it's not always without risk (I've up outside of the map or in a wall a few times), but it's basicly another, slightly longer lasting dodge. It will not - however - save you from the 'Seek shelter' damage, as that ignores the immunity frames, last I checked. Same thing goes for the ghetto dodge Cunning provides. Maddening Aura - the couple of k damage every so many seconds in Demo - will eat up the Cunning charge, but wont provide a 'dodge'.

On a Trapper, you can cycle through your encounters so quickly you can spend a long time in those immunity frames and have the free dodge very often. Added bonus: every ally affected by Fox's Cunning will count as one encounter used - same goes for Oak Skin and Stag Heart - and will reset the cooldowns on the flip side (melee and archery) accordingly. This is pretty nice for trappers who find themselves running out of charges for Cordon of Arrows and Hindering Shot, and struggle to reset the cooldowns on the melee side because of that.

arcofortep12 said:

Trapper should be more difficult in a Demo setting, no Hasty Retreat, mixed Combat-Archery, less time to think at what to do, more direct hits.

A good trapper basicly operates on muscle memory, cycling through as quick as possible. No need for thinking. Also, with the amount of DoT's being applied - Careful Attack (Pathfinder), Plant Growth, Thorned Roots, Death Slaad (not everyone has one, I know) - you'll have a constant stream of lifesteal ticks. During the Goristro and Demo phases, I switch out Cordon of Arrows for Longstriders and use Forest Ghost for massive speed boosts. Not to mention Gushing Wound is one of the single most damaging encounters you can use at that point, and it ticks so quickly you'll get healed a lot.

wdj40

jaegernl said:

aaramis75 said:

Survivability is good on Combat, due to the boosts to lifesteal and deflect. But for Archery or Trapper, it's rubbish. I'm finding in groups if I draw aggro, I'm in trouble, especially if the mob is immune to control effects - I can't shift far enough to really outrun anything, and my deflect/lifesteal isn't high enough to make a huge difference.

I also find if I need to get somewhere asap, I'm in trouble. On a demo run, for instance, I can easily dodge roll into a sanity well on my TR, but on HR I often can't make it in time and get butchered.

Right now, my HR is at a point where I'm perfectly comfortable pugging eDemo and surviving nicely, even when I do draw agro. The Psychotic Break - the zone-wide stun - can be an issue if a mob is casting a red zone on the point where you're stunned, but that's out of your hands, and getting killed at that point probably happens for a lot of 'squishy' classes.

Generally, cycling through my encounters as fast as I can (Constricting/Cordon/Hindering) and relying on lifesteal is enough. I do bounce and shift around a lot, making sure I stay just out of mob range. Lifesteal really is key when it comes to survivability, and stacking it on HR isn't really that hard. Forest Ghost will also help.

When it comes to the 'Seek shelter in a sanity well!' moments in Demo: They're on a fixed pattern at the Goristro stage. The first one will happen after the first charge Goristro makes, and then happens roughly on the 3rd, 5th, etc. Saving your Longstriders for that moment works, or you could hover between the closest sanity well and the yellow rune of the wall, in case he does charge you. If you're Pathfinder, applying Slasher's Mark and a DoT will give you a bunch of stamina for nigh-endless dodges. The Forest Ghost + Longstriders combination is the bigger speed boost, though.

aaramis75 said:

Fox is the only one that's half-decent, but then you're slotting a power for ONE dodged attack - which doesn't help you when a Nalfeshnee and 2 Glabrezu are on you.

arcofortep12 said:

As you said one attack dodged will not change anything, that Power is a waste.

The classification of 'useless' when it comes to Fox is way off. It's been a valuable tool in the HR's arsenal for many mods now. A friend and ally. Sure, Fox's Cunning - the dodge - has it's flaws (just *one* dodge) but it is an excellent defensive tool for slow, hard hitting mobs when you know their rotation, and have a solid rotation yourself. It's a great asset when you're face-tanking Lostmauth and other dragons, or ELOL's Scorpions.

It's melee side - Fox Shift - is an even bigger asset. It's damage is alright, but the value of it lies in it's immunity frames. Triggering it will make you immune to incoming damage and any added CC effect while you're slashing through mobs. It's duration is short, sure, and it's not always without risk (I've up outside of the map or in a wall a few times), but it's basicly another, slightly longer lasting dodge. It will not - however - save you from the 'Seek shelter' damage, as that ignores the immunity frames, last I checked. Same thing goes for the ghetto dodge Cunning provides. Maddening Aura - the couple of k damage every so many seconds in Demo - will eat up the Cunning charge, but wont provide a 'dodge'.

On a Trapper, you can cycle through your encounters so quickly you can spend a long time in those immunity frames and have the free dodge very often. Added bonus: every ally affected by Fox's Cunning will count as one encounter used - same goes for Oak Skin and Stag Heart - and will reset the cooldowns on the flip side (melee and archery) accordingly. This is pretty nice for trappers who find themselves running out of charges for Cordon of Arrows and Hindering Shot, and struggle to reset the cooldowns on the melee side because of that.

arcofortep12 said:

Trapper should be more difficult in a Demo setting, no Hasty Retreat, mixed Combat-Archery, less time to think at what to do, more direct hits.

A good trapper basicly operates on muscle memory, cycling through as quick as possible. No need for thinking. Also, with the amount of DoT's being applied - Careful Attack (Pathfinder), Plant Growth, Thorned Roots, Death Slaad (not everyone has one, I know) - you'll have a constant stream of lifesteal ticks. During the Goristro and Demo phases, I switch out Cordon of Arrows for Longstriders and use Forest Ghost for massive speed boosts. Not to mention Gushing Wound is one of the single most damaging encounters you can use at that point, and it ticks so quickly you'll get healed a lot.

Have to say that was a fantastic post

I have spent almost 1600hrs with my HR on the Xbox (nothing compared to some PC players I know), I feel I know the class and nearly every power inside out but I am still learning every day I find lol. Anyway you have to have spent a lot of time and re-speccing to write that post.

I have got to the stage where I can do all the content without Fox's Cunning/Shift and Oak Skin etc. But Fox's is one of the best skills easily for survivability and it actually does some nice damage, Seekers Passive also increases its damage as 1 hit from Fox's Shift per enemy is a strike from behind. Anyhoo Cunning can be massively useful when timed right during boss fights etc, its just a shame the Pally Bubble has made it completely useless when they are around

jonkoca

HRs, fine in PVE, suck huge amounts of balls in pvp. If you're failing mightily to stay alive solo in anything less than the beholders HE in SH or epic dungeons, you're doing it wrong, past 2.5k anyway.

rayrdan

wdj40 said:

I don't get it, my HR on the Xbox has massive amounts of survivability and I can solo most things except the Epic T2 Dungeons, even the 15 man HE's in the SH I can solo fairly easily now. I also generally top the DPS charts in whatever I run (lately Demo) unless a well built GWF and very rarely well built SW are in the group.

Oak Skin is fantastic with the right Build, you can make it a damaging power as well as combat healing + personal DR % increase of around 12%. It also synergises with other classes that buff etc when healing them (like a Pally).

Cruel Recovery Passive is not very good due to that low 1%... But if you take the Off-Hand Weapon Class Feature Cruel Recovery, it does make the Passive a whole lot better. 0.5% healing on every Crit is pretty sweet for high crit builds.

Both Oak Skin and Cruel Recovery Off-Hand synergise well with an Earth Archon Companion.

PVE damage as trapper is not bad. Survivability in common pve situations is not bad since stuffs is either controlled or my lifesteal brings me full hp in seconds. But most european players have a ping over 250ms. With that ping i effettively dodge no red areas.

Burst damage is pretty much zero for this class. This combined with an unfriendly dodge and burst from other classes means you either die in a couple hits or you succeed to fight back for a while but enemy dont drop below 80 HP.
So pretty much everyone in pvp have better resistance than you, more burst and more mobility.
With 150k HP healing ticks for 500 HP are really nothing.
The only thing we have nice is thorned roots: in mod 8 they will fix elven battle, this means you roots will last approx 0.3 seconds leaving the time for thorned root to tick once and stop.

malabogpigfeeder

arcofortep12 said:

chroococci said:

It doesn´t stack

How is it possible to conceive such a Class Feature? I can understand 10% but 1%?

hahahaha, no words this coment is a jewel, im saving this in my memory, that was exactly what i tought when i first used it.

gabrieldourden

arcofortep12 said:

jonkoca said:

HRs, fine in PVE, suck huge amounts of balls in pvp. If you're failing mightily to stay alive solo in anything less than the beholders HE in SH or epic dungeons, you're doing it wrong, past 2.5k anyway.

I'm 2.3k, nearly 9k of Power, but I never had a single problem of survivability in Sharandar or Dread Ring.
For example I've died some times in the Quickling Den long algo with my wizard but never with my Ranger. And I don't slot defensive powers.
Obviously the situation can get difficult in a very crowded situation, only few toons are able to to resist that, the SW Soulbinder, the GF and maybe the TR and DC. In a very crowded situation my ranger can have some problems (>8 mobs?), but only there.

Actually with more lifesteal it's easier to deal with large groups of mobs than with smaller ones. Soloing Valindra's final stage is a breeze if you have more than 20% lifesteal.
A bit off-topic: jaegernl mentioned the Death Slaad. Is it good for a trapper? I plan to move from augment to Blink Dog soon and that will free a slot so I'm looking for my 5th companion.

jaegernl

gabrieldourden said:

arcofortep12 said:

jonkoca said:

HRs, fine in PVE, suck huge amounts of balls in pvp. If you're failing mightily to stay alive solo in anything less than the beholders HE in SH or epic dungeons, you're doing it wrong, past 2.5k anyway.

I'm 2.3k, nearly 9k of Power, but I never had a single problem of survivability in Sharandar or Dread Ring.
For example I've died some times in the Quickling Den long algo with my wizard but never with my Ranger. And I don't slot defensive powers.
Obviously the situation can get difficult in a very crowded situation, only few toons are able to to resist that, the SW Soulbinder, the GF and maybe the TR and DC. In a very crowded situation my ranger can have some problems (>8 mobs?), but only there.

Actually with more lifesteal it's easier to deal with large groups of mobs than with smaller ones. Soloing Valindra's final stage is a breeze if you have more than 20% lifesteal.
A bit off-topic: jaegernl mentioned the Death Slaad. Is it good for a trapper? I plan to move from augment to Blink Dog soon and that will free a slot so I'm looking for my 5th companion.

It's been a while since I parsed my HR in eDemo/Dungeons, but I'll run a few and get back to you on that. Since the last 2x RP my HR has had some substantial upgrades, so the percentage of damage from the Death Slaad should've dropped.

From a lifesteal perspective, however, DoT's are really nice. Sure, getting a big 500k heal from Cordon of Arrows + Endless Consumption is fun, but you just overheal. I prefer smaller heals with a higher frequency so my HP doesn't yo-yo as much.

durugudesu

aaramis75 said:

Survivability is good on Combat, due to the boosts to lifesteal and deflect. But for Archery or Trapper, it's rubbish. I'm finding in groups if I draw aggro, I'm in trouble, especially if the mob is immune to control effects - I can't shift far enough to really outrun anything, and my deflect/lifesteal isn't high enough to make a huge difference.

I also find if I need to get somewhere asap, I'm in trouble. On a demo run, for instance, I can easily dodge roll into a sanity well on my TR, but on HR I often can't make it in time and get butchered.

It's sad that we have a dozen or so powers with defensive benefits, but half of them aren't worth having (Boar Hide, Oak Skin, Stag Heart, Battlehoned, Cruel Revovery). Fox is the only one that's half-decent, but then you're slotting a power for ONE dodged attack - which doesn't help you when a Nalfeshnee and 2 Glabrezu are on you.

rethink on classigying stag heart as useless. the range power of it has very high debuff, short lived, but one of the best encounters to use.