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can't say I didn't try...

jonkocajonkoca Posts: 2,515Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
Sad to say but after maining my HR since mod 2, and building him up to within 1 enchant rank of BIS... I just gave up and switched mains to my baby TR.

But when you get your HAMSTER handed to you in a routine fashion by lower IL gwfs and gfs, and can't put a dent in anything with decent survivability despite having the option of 15k+ arpen and/or a truckload of power... it's time to call it quits.

It's not a problem of build, I've tried them all, defensive, offensive, stealthy, archer, combat, trapper, combo... HR damage is just plain uncompetitive, control is only slightly irritating and survivability meagre, hell even our base movement sucks.

Devs, please buff something, anything, I don't mind, right now I'd take a novelty ability to shoot purple flames out of my HRs HAMSTER to boost movement or something.

Out until the buff.

No idea what my toon is now.

Comments

  • glubtalglubtal Posts: 57Member Arc User
    I'm now purely a PvE player. With 3,5 ilvl I'm used to getting outdps'ed by 2,5 gwf's and 3,0 cw/sw. I dont really mind if it wasnt for the fact that people are starting to not include me in runs, simply cuz I'm a HR.
    I guess the main problem is that Trappers are fine enough in PvP?, and due to that archer and melee (both PvP and PvE) and Trapper (PvE) must suffer?
    Since all classes have 3 paths they should make 1 for PvP, 1 for PvE and one for a mix, imo :)
    Btw: With 3 free retraining tokens from winterfestival, I decided to spect to archer just to try it again. Omg the difference, I almost died in a solo Cela run, come on and I now have to consider strategies in IWD and WoD. And the one thing a archer should be better than the trapper at (killing a dragon in a SH run), he fails at also..so...lesson learned, back to trapper....
  • aaramis75aaramis75 Posts: 348Member Arc User
    ^^ Yes, Archer and Melee are decidedly underperforming compared to Trapper. Trapper is the one really viable spec currently, which isn't a huge deal, as there are plenty of other classes where there's only 1 viable tree, yet you don't hear them complaining (*cough* GWF Destroyer *cough*). The issue, of course, is that GWF Destroyer absolutely annihilates competition. HR Trapper does not. And that's our competitive tree. The others are much further behind.

    Anyways, OP, sorry to see you hop over. I'm hoping next mod there'll be a buff to HR, because it really *is* a fun class. It just needs help.
  • hawkendhawkend Posts: 179Member Arc User
    The most funny thing is that when SW getting 15% deflect chance from offhand bonus where HR got 20% deflect chance from same class feauture(i know right that with 5 enemies we getting up to 30% deflect chance). Such balance :dizzy:
  • jhpnwjhpnw Posts: 607Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    I FEEL YOUR PAIN. with a 3.2IL I am geared. I have BIS armor for pvp and pve w/ rank 10s to 12s trans vorpal and trans negation with every feat and boon has been respected for max capabilities. I have spent 100s of hours in preview fine tuning every part of my toon. IN pvp I get smashed by BIS and lower level Toons with the orange rings and ap drains are on every competitor team I face. My guild is not far enough along to get ap wards yet. I still pvp every day for my seals and after getting all my armor for pvp I still have over a 100 seals of triumph. My point is HR is not viable any more. I cant contribute to overall team in PVP and in PVE I get chosen last for all the T2 runs do to HR don't fit any where any more. This because other lower IL classes do more of everything. A 2.4 level CW and GWF out dps and control me, not good for boss fights due to cc wont work for them, cant heal like a DC and well OPS are OPS. So we need a DPS and Survival Buff. as well as dodge and jump distance are pitiful
  • linknigrilinknigri Posts: 97Member Arc User
    Welcome to the team jonkoca. I've gived up HR some time ago too, you will have a lot more fun with the TR. And guys, trapper is not viable on pvp either... HR on pvp is a joke with every tree, it is only viable for pve.
  • ghoulz66ghoulz66 Posts: 3,748Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    I don't care about having my HR become some DPS god, I'm just freakin tired of the class's pile of HAMSTER useless survivability in PVE. My DC is wearing HP with 44k HP and just laughs at how sad my HR has to try to avoid dying. Shouldn't the damned ranger have survival tools on par with the TR? A lot of the utility encounter powers are simply useless.

    I swear, if they don't buff their dodge for the next module I'll swap to my stab out eyes stance.
  • vinceent1vinceent1 Posts: 1,258Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    edited December 2015
    :p agree

    HR is for roleplayers

    for bored veterans looking for a hardmode

    for extremely stubborn players

    i am some kind of mix of both

    sad thing is HR dont look like is on devs target

    whats funny there are still instances where i am only one who has aggro, hunting badly all over the map

  • lirithiellirithiel Posts: 2,482Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    Bunch of quitters more worried about their epeens :p

    HR has never been top dog and that has never bothered me. I play the class because I find it immensely fun. Despite the state of HR I am still enjoying my Archer and Combat HR. SWF if every other class out-damages us? TRs have been there and look at them now. Also, the GWFs time in the sun will come to an end and hopefully we will be the ones to rise (and I don't mean these Druid wannabee Trappers that insist it is the only viable HR path to play).
    Our pain is self chosen.

    The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
  • rayrdanrayrdan Posts: 5,410Member Arc User
    "and I don't mean these Druid wannabee Trappers that insist it is the only viable HR path to play"

    isnt that true?
  • lirithiellirithiel Posts: 2,482Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    rayrdan said:

    "and I don't mean these Druid wannabee Trappers that insist it is the only viable HR path to play"

    isnt that true?

    My Archer disagrees wholeheartedly.
    Our pain is self chosen.

    The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
  • aaramis75aaramis75 Posts: 348Member Arc User
    I think this is where some are going to disagree on the definition of "viable". You can play Archer or Melee spec, sure; just as you can play an Instigator or Sentinel-specced GWF, or a Light-specced protection OP. Are they optimal, though? Far from it.

    That said, there are elements of the HR that I truly enjoy. Life not being an easy cake walk, is one of them - I enjoy the challenge.
    But do you know what else I enjoy? Hopping on my GWF and standing in red and continuing to dps; or having my at-wills do more damage than my HRs encounters; or seeing my biggest HR hit (usually Cordon or a nice crit Seismic) pale in comparison to a fully-buffed IBS or Crescendo.

    So it's disheartening, to say the least, when you compare your HR to any other dps class.
    And when veterans leave the class because their friends or guild are starting to not invite them to group anymore because the HR is seen as a liability? That's even worse. :(
  • jhpnwjhpnw Posts: 607Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    I like Vinceent refuse to quit my HR it is the only toon I play I have spent my whole in game life on him and will end mygame life with him . I am really good @ PVE and surviving but its hard to get invited to the party when your fellow players judge you on class not play skills. I cant tell you how sore my back gets from carrying PUGs thru kessels and they whine over your a HR. on these runs its not un common to look back and see all on other side of barrier and it can take a good 30 minutes of encounters and dodging to solo the final boss. As far as PVP you just have to find the toughest [email protected]@ on the team your on and become his Guardian angel other wise HR is not a stand alone player when you run up against the new rings and drains or a better than average BIS like Sabre or Icy Drake your done.

    jhp
    Note I still will PVP daily till I win a match no matter how bad PVP gets I have just gotten smarter at it by learning how to capitalize on other teams mistakes and picking my fights
  • linknigrilinknigri Posts: 97Member Arc User
    edited December 2015
    It is sad to see that some people accepted the terrible and useless spot HR sits in. For sometime I tought the problem with the nerfs were the newcomers who did not even puted a tenacity set and started to complain the class was overpowered on pvp simply because it could stum them to death and that is kinda anoying, while other classes could simple kill them with one encounter.

    Its really lame to see that my DC with 530 gs, that is right, 530 score bigger hits than the 4k gs HR. Some will doubt, but its the truth, do it and see for yourself, is its dps higher? No, offcorse not, but he does score bigger hits with his encounters, even bigger then HR's cordon, witch means he has burst while we have no sutch a thing. Witch is why we cant win a fight on pvp.

    Some of u might say, eeeewww pvp is broken! just dont play that stuff and you will be good. Well truth is, it is even more broken to the HR, and no, you are not a class on hard mode there, you are a class who can only kill a newbee with no gs. PVE content is easy for every class, its not a challange at the moment.

    So this story where ''HR is a class for who wants the hard mode!'' this is just something that was throwed at you and you swalloed, and accepted, the class is terrible, and with a communit who accepts that it will always be terrible, it is a good thing serious guilds are not recruiting HRs, maybe it will open the eyes of the devs, as the community itselfs refuses to do anymore.

    And no, gwfs wont be out of the sun anytime soon, because they have players and a community who does try to solve the problems when they appear rather then saying, I dont care, it is a underdog, it is suposed to be a terrible class to players who wants a challenge. And just so you guys remember, they were the worst class of the game in the first mod, and then boom got buffed on everything and become a god because of their community. Do I want an HR to be a overpowered god? hell no! Neither did them, but would be nice to see classes who are on pair with each other and are competitive. We are not. So yeah, i'm quitting HR, I ratter acctualy play the game with everyone else and have chances to win based on my skill and the only place where they are actually measured is pvp because on pve u can even play naked and be successfull if u have a party.

    Post edited by linknigri on
  • vinceent1vinceent1 Posts: 1,258Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    edited December 2015
    as stubborn "roleplayer", bored veteran who somehow even likes to be underdog if necessary i dont mind really. play archery at pvp, play iron vanguard (majority play swordmaster) as GF at pvp too. As i play archer at Elder scrolls online, its even harder there.

    sorry to new players, it must be horrible. BTW last time i met Icydrake, we wasnt so hard to troll for a time, but it was before rings.

    PVE group dungeons content - i play only ELOL, luckily its dungeon where HR can be really usefull, if is able to use fox shift properly. against spear, against scorps, against laser. Majority times i pug que, so i dont need to be ashamed of my damage, it still look solid with pug. and its not problem finish dungeon, when i play class which can save many mistakes. sometimes only need one player replace to kill dragon. For kiting scorp, i dont even need dodging, only walk in circle to be safe (if lag free)
  • lirithiellirithiel Posts: 2,482Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    linknigri said:



    And no, gwfs wont be out of the sun anytime soon, because they have players and a community who does try to solve the problems when they appear rather then saying, I dont care, it is a underdog, it is suposed to be a terrible class to players who wants a challenge. And just so you guys remember, they were the worst class of the game in the first mod, and then boom got buffed on everything and become a god because of their community. Do I want an HR to be a overpowered god? hell no! Neither did them, but would be nice to see classes who are on pair with each other and are competitive. We are not. So yeah, i'm quitting HR, I ratter acctualy play the game with everyone else and have chances to win based on my skill and the only place where they are actually measured is pvp because on pve u can even play naked and be successfull if u have a party

    LMMFAO. GWF, along with GW are the whiniest playerbase in the game. They are far from a great community. Also they were HAMSTER in Mods 4 and 5 and only stepped into the limelight in Mod 6.

    And until we get hardcore content that matters in NW, where every bit of dps makes a difference, I will continue to assert that Archers are very much viable in the current situation. I am not very far off from Trappers in damage and on single targets I blow them out of the water.

    If you are struggling to get groups as a HR join NW Legit Community Channel. No elitism there are we take anyone on dungeon/skirmish/demo runs as long as you have the minimum required item level.
    Our pain is self chosen.

    The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
  • statzkamikatzestatzkamikatze Posts: 20Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    Sad that so many hr's quit the game or switch to another class :(
    I still enjoy my HR Trapper a lot (PvE only)
    And the damage of a HR depends on the situation
    Eg. in HE's in WoD i'm close to 3,8+k gs gwf with some guild buffs with my 2800 gs without guild buffs (thanks CA...)
    2 act log's were: 13-12,8 million damage (top GWF - 2nd me) and 17-13 damage (top GWF - 2nd me)
    If i did run a kessell or some epic dungeon against such a gwf i'd be out-dps'ed damn hard - i know that much
    But overall i nearly always find myself within the top dd's and also give the party CA (or cc if i swich to crushing roots) + a free dodge every few seconds with cunning

    The only problem i experience is the defense in some situations
    in Dungeons like etos it's no problem to be a glass cannon if you have a tank/heal and use fox's cunning + shift
    The DoT in Demogorgon hits me for 15k tho, so within several seconds im a goner without a heal around
    Also, since sharandar and ring lag like crazy for me it's hard to play there
    Otherwise solo play for boons/etc. isnt any problem
  • jonkocajonkoca Posts: 2,515Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    Thanks for everyones' comiserations.

    To provide some context I've been playing a lot of dom on my TR for the last couple of days, after giving her a bit of a facelift during double refinement.

    Stats gear.

    HR 24k power average with twisted stacks and brutality hitting sometimes 28k
    TR 20k power flat ensorcelled weapons brutality hitting sometimes 24k
    HR arpen 15k crit about 30%
    TR arpen 3.5k crit automatic
    HR 120k HP and 15-20% LS tenacity 3xlionsmane.
    TR 99k HP and 4.5% LS tenacity 2xelemental.

    Il HR 3.7k TR 2.7k +4 brutality and ambush. 110% mounts. Both have lostmauth set TR purple, HR orange.

    Performance.

    HR kills nubz check. Kills equal gear toons reliably uncheck. Oneshots things uncheck. Survives combat uncheck/meh. Kills 2vs.1 or more uncheck useful on mid uncheck. Kills higher gear toons, so uncheck its not funny. K/D ratio in roughly equal match 1:1 if lucky. Uutility in match winning meh to none.

    TR kills nubz check. Kills equal gear toons reliably check. Oneshots things check and sometimes oneshots 2 toons with one double SE. Survives combat, check. Kills 2vs.1 or more check. Kills higher gear toons, check or severely dents them to the point they have to run. K/D in roughly equal match, depends on enemy classes but between 20/1 or 2 to 5/1 or 2. Utility in matchwinning, high to critical.

    That's at purple everything with one cyan artifact, and a full 1k less gearscore.



    No idea what my toon is now.
  • jonkocajonkoca Posts: 2,515Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    Forgot to add I've spent about 2 years pvp'ing on the HR (trapper since mod6) and about a month or so, including levelling etc. playing the TR (executioner spec mostly).
    No idea what my toon is now.
  • soonergmsoonergm Posts: 503Member Arc User
    edited January 2016
    Hey guys, I'm on XB1, we are still on mod 6 I believe. Is there some big nerf for HR for PVE after mod 6?

    Currently I get smoked by a properly spec'd GWF. It's not even close... to the point that it's not even worth trying lol. Sometimes I find a SW that beats me like a GWF. All other classes I typically beat in DPS. If I don't then it's very close and they have a higher IL. My IL is 2400 and other than my Ioun Stone my companions are crappy. My stone isn't even maxed out.
    Post edited by soonergm on
    My Toons

    SoonerGM - HR Trapper
    Haven - Righteous Cleric
    Ethereal Justice - OP Paladin
  • feanor70118feanor70118 Posts: 1,099Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    You know, after 3 mods of misery Cryptic actually asked the TR community what they could do to improve a woefully neglected class (I played 2 different TRs from mods 2-4), listened and acted accordingly. So, ever since mod 5 TRs have been ridiculously no-skill, faceroll nonsense. They made it so easy to play TR in mod 5 that I simply gave up on mine out of boredom after going 39/0 K/D in a pvp match.

    HR has been neglected ever since mod 4. Our at-wills are pointless except as debuffs. GWF and TR at wills do more damage than our encounters and sometimes our dailies. Roots have almost no effect whatsoever on properly geared players. There may be a few stubborn archers left, but basically no one plays the combat tree and trappers mostly hang on out of stubbornness. It is far past time for Cryptic to actually admit that they have ignored this class for about the last YEAR and start fixing it. I do, of course, not nominate myself as interlocutor since I am not really capable of being polite about it. But the fact is that even though they are plainly terrible at class balancing it is long past time that they give it another try and maybe even learn something in the process.
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