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Mrks, War, Prot or mage??

Sagitorus - IllyfueSagitorus - Illyfue Posts: 24 Arc User
edited May 2012 in Class Discussion
Which one should i choose if i want to solo my MOST quests, do events and later on PVP arenas and a few duels

I dont want to die quikly and kill fast enough... Super fast in not necessary
Post edited by Sagitorus - Illyfue on

Comments

  • Unbrokenable - LionheartUnbrokenable - Lionheart Posts: 313 Arc User
    edited April 2012
    Warrior and Mage are going to be the best for PvP. Soloing quests generally isn't an issue no matter what class you are, might be slightly slower killing mobs with a Priest or something but that's about it.
  • alexander12364alexander12364 Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2012
    Whts better for PVE mage or prot i want to do quests alone
    and is the assassin worst in PvE and PvP together
  • Unbrokenable - LionheartUnbrokenable - Lionheart Posts: 313 Arc User
    edited April 2012
    You'll find as you go on that questing alone really doesn't end up mattering that much, most of the PvE you do is in groups. But to answer your question, prot probably a little better at it until your mage is geared enough that it doesn't die whenever a monster farts, at which point it's much better at clearing mobs.

    Assassin is good target DPS in PvE, but lacks any AoE. They are quite strong in PvP.
  • Sgtpwn - LionheartSgtpwn - Lionheart Posts: 4 Arc User
    edited April 2012
    Warrior and Mage are going to be the best for PvP. Soloing quests generally isn't an issue no matter what class you are, might be slightly slower killing mobs with a Priest or something but that's about it.

    Warriors and Mages have their advantages in pvp, but i would go as far as to claim they are the best compared to the other choices given. Having leveled a protector and warrior to about the same level with the same amount of funding with the preferred pvp spec for both (ele/diamond), I would say that a protector is more suitable for any pvp situation whether it be 1v1, 3v3, or mass pvp. I noticed with my warrior, that even though i hit hard, I was miserable to cc, especially being elf, while on my protector I was subject to the same predicaments, but felt more in control. This is due to the ensnare dispel on gale force as well as the 10% removal of a negative effect on mental focus. If those still failed i had badges or rocky. As for mages, i have yet to meet more than 5 decent mages without sufficient funding. Its almost as if this class needs extensive funding to even be effective. Nevertheless, anyone can say a class is good when the individual your facing is packing level 3 wings on them. All depends on your play style, mages are good if you like mass cc and to control the battle pvp wise. Prots are good if you like to take big chunks out of the target without them being able to respond. Warriors are good for explosive damage and decent navigation. MMs are good for large hits and manageable cc.
  • Ghundam - EyrdaGhundam - Eyrda Posts: 321 Arc User
    edited April 2012
    When you put the words cc and mm in the same sentence I get lost. What exactly you mean?
  • blankzo1blankzo1 Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2012
    After the effect of [ Hunter Mark ]
    Soul MM
    - 6 seconds silence from Exorcising Bullet
    - 2 seconds stuns Soul snipe (100% stun with crit)
    - 6 seconds ensnare from Pulse shot + slow effects ( with 80 acc added to skill)

    The three main skills e.e
  • Unbrokenable - LionheartUnbrokenable - Lionheart Posts: 313 Arc User
    edited April 2012
    I noticed with my warrior, that even though i hit hard, I was miserable to cc, especially being elf, while on my protector I was subject to the same predicaments, but felt more in control. This is due to the ensnare dispel on gale force as well as the 10% removal of a negative effect on mental focus. If those still failed i had badges or rocky. As for mages, i have yet to meet more than 5 decent mages without sufficient funding. Its almost as if this class needs extensive funding to even be effective. Nevertheless, anyone can say a class is good when the individual your facing is packing level 3 wings on them. All depends on your play style, mages are good if you like mass cc and to control the battle pvp wise. Prots are good if you like to take big chunks out of the target without them being able to respond. Warriors are good for explosive damage and decent navigation. MMs are good for large hits and manageable cc.

    Warriors are better at resisting CC. First, you can just assault when slowed/snared to close the gap, also your CC gets cleared when you use a stance. Some of the text here might be wrong cause I grabbed it off a random google search, but look:
    Frenzy Stance
    Self blessing
    Increases damage, decreases evasion and defense. Each Stance can be stacked 3 times. Only 1 Stance can be active same time. Stances can be casted while inluenced by controlling effects. Casting Frenzy Stance may remove ensnare and speed reducing effects.
    Casting time: Instant. Cooldown: 15 s + 15 s per stack

    Combat Stance
    Self blessing
    Increases defense, decreases damage. Each Stance can be stacked 3 times. Only 1 Stance can be active same time. Stances can be casted while inluenced by controlling effects. Casting Frenzy Stance may remove silence and disarm effects.
    Casting time: Instant. Cooldown: 15 s + 15 s per stack

    Bloodrage Stance
    Self blessing
    Increases maximum HP, decreases defense. Each Stance can be stacked 3 times. Only 1 Stance can be active same time. Stances can be casted while inluenced by controlling effects. Casting Frenzy Stance may remove stun, sleep and transform effects.

    And of course, part of the problem is you didn't roll a human warrior, there really isn't a compelling reason to use an elf warrior (your mana pool is horrible so your mana drain will also be horrible).

    Rocky does grant CC immunity its cooldown is way too long, so it's only appropriate to use in circumstances where it will give you a huge advantage.

    The mental focus description on prot is completely wrong...I have never seen that thing resist a negative effect. Unless you are referring to the Abominable Will talent, which is actually an active ability on Mental Focus which can't be used while under controlling effects (also it doesn't work on everything, Feast is one of them). Also, only reliable at 10 fury stacks. If you PvP you'll realize that you rarely have 10 fury stacks, so each time you try to break a snare with Mental Focus you better cross your fingers.



    Mages -- Yes you need to be well-geared, cause an ungeared mage will die instantly. But once you get to a certain survivability level, the CC effects you have are basically unrivaled.

    MM -- They can do decent damage, but they have a lot of weaknesses. You'd have to ask someone actually playing an MM for the details, but from what I've seen they generally aren't very successful in PvP anymore.
  • Borsook - EyrdaBorsook - Eyrda Posts: 2,951 Arc User
    edited April 2012
    Mages -- Yes you need to be well-geared, cause an ungeared mage will die instantly. But once you get to a certain survivability level, the CC effects you have are basically unrivaled.
    Oh really? I'd contest water bards have more CC and tons more survivability, damage-wise and anti-CC wise.
  • Unbrokenable - LionheartUnbrokenable - Lionheart Posts: 313 Arc User
    edited April 2012
    Oh really? I'd contest water bards have more CC and tons more survivability, damage-wise and anti-CC wise.

    More CC only on a single target. I didn't say ice mages have inherently good survivability, I just said building it helps a lot.
  • Sgtpwn - LionheartSgtpwn - Lionheart Posts: 4 Arc User
    edited April 2012
    Warriors are better at resisting CC. First, you can just assault when slowed/snared to close the gap, also your CC gets cleared when you use a stance. Some of the text here might be wrong cause I grabbed it off a random google search, but look:



    And of course, part of the problem is you didn't roll a human warrior, there really isn't a compelling reason to use an elf warrior (your mana pool is horrible so your mana drain will also be horrible).

    Rocky does grant CC immunity its cooldown is way too long, so it's only appropriate to use in circumstances where it will give you a huge advantage.

    The mental focus description on prot is completely wrong...I have never seen that thing resist a negative effect. Unless you are referring to the Abominable Will talent, which is actually an active ability on Mental Focus which can't be used while under controlling effects (also it doesn't work on everything, Feast is one of them). Also, only reliable at 10 fury stacks. If you PvP you'll realize that you rarely have 10 fury stacks, so each time you try to break a snare with Mental Focus you better cross your fingers.



    Mages -- Yes you need to be well-geared, cause an ungeared mage will die instantly. But once you get to a certain survivability level, the CC effects you have are basically unrivaled.

    MM -- They can do decent damage, but they have a lot of weaknesses. You'd have to ask someone actually playing an MM for the details, but from what I've seen they generally aren't very successful in PvP anymore.

    Warriors do have assault but that doesn't actually remove an slow/ensnare affect. In the incident of gathering orbs, this can make are break the match since you will still be slowed after the assault/ensnared. Switching stances to remove an effect is partially true, but emphasis on "may." Ive tried switching stances plenty of times to know that its no where near dependable, in fact, its only removed an effect once for me. Prey is a racial skill that if i remember has a 300 sec cd which means its not really a warrior's way to remove cc, i can rocky which also has a 300 sec cd to remove cc. Oh I see, sorry for that misunderstanding, I must have read the talent wrong and yeah i almost never have a 10 lol. The reason I like gale force is that it can be used to gather orbs, if only for a bit, unlike assaulting when you are slowed and still being slowed. A geared mage will die just as fast if they are facing someone of equal skill and gear.
  • im2gr84uim2gr84u Posts: 695 Arc User
    edited April 2012
    Warriors do have assault but that doesn't actually remove an slow/ensnare affect. In the incident of gathering orbs, this can make are break the match since you will still be slowed after the assault/ensnared. Switching stances to remove an effect is partially true, but emphasis on "may." Ive tried switching stances plenty of times to know that its no where near dependable, in fact, its only removed an effect once for me. Prey is a racial skill that if i remember has a 300 sec cd which means its not really a warrior's way to remove cc, i can rocky which also has a 300 sec cd to remove cc. Oh I see, sorry for that misunderstanding, I must have read the talent wrong and yeah i almost never have a 10 lol. The reason I like gale force is that it can be used to gather orbs, if only for a bit, unlike assaulting when you are slowed and still being slowed. A geared mage will die just as fast if they are facing someone of equal skill and gear.

    lol what he meant is that either ensnared slowed or ice arrow freeze you can assault to the target and hit, instead staying cced in the spot, but if target kites youll just have to wait for next assault, as for example when feasted. And yeah each stance removes certain cc, what description says is a fail if it removes when you change to frenzy stance, wrong description, and no warrior would choose to other tree stance for a 25% chance to remove a cc, if they do then they are a fail.

  • Unbrokenable - LionheartUnbrokenable - Lionheart Posts: 313 Arc User
    edited April 2012
    Prey is a racial skill that if i remember has a 300 sec cd which means its not really a warrior's way to remove cc, i can rocky which also has a 300 sec cd to remove cc. Oh I see, sorry for that misunderstanding, I must have read the talent wrong and yeah i almost never have a 10 lol. The reason I like gale force is that it can be used to gather orbs, if only for a bit, unlike assaulting when you are slowed and still being slowed. A geared mage will die just as fast if they are facing someone of equal skill and gear.

    The thing about Pray is it is separated from the warrior's other skills: Blade of Reflection and Divine Uphold. When I use Rocky as a prot, everyone's just like "**** that" and run from me like their life depends on it (which it kinda does). Whereas the warrior can strategically use the 3 deterrent skills. Prot does have ACS which is about equivalent to BoR, but BoR is a lot scarier in my opinion...each time I hit it I'm actually afraid to die, whereas ACS if I'm okay with getting stunned I'll go ahead and hit it anyway.

    I'll agree with you that gale force is really nice for orbing. That's generally how I end up using it, to break out of a snare and quickly gather some nearby orbs.

    Geared mages -- they have a lot of ways to delay their impending doom (e.g. transform, ice block, drake skin, CC). They are usually pretty darn tanky at the same gear level as well, because they don't need to (and probably shouldn't) build for damage, but rather for survive and accuracy.
  • Borsook - EyrdaBorsook - Eyrda Posts: 2,951 Arc User
    edited April 2012
    Geared mages -- they have a lot of ways to delay their impending doom (e.g. transform, ice block, drake skin, CC). They are usually pretty darn tanky at the same gear level as well, because they don't need to (and probably shouldn't) build for damage, but rather for survive and accuracy.
    Transform? I assume you mean 1v1? It heals enemy.

    Ice Block? It's a good way to run out of wrath for sure. Survive, but then face redhanded enemy while you either have to run for orbs instantly as you're out or you're out of wrath already. In fact, 90% of the time you won't even use it for more than 6 seconds, because you'll run out of wrath.

    Drake Skin? Ok, good 1v1, in groups especially arena it's trash for survival. Sure, you survive a killing blow, but it's one of the worst escapes you can have. It doesn't even make you immune to CC, and once you used Drake Skin (obviously, against an enemy with high wrath, else there's no point to use it in the first place) you sign a "out of mana" sentence for yourself within the next 5 seconds.

    Granted, it's like this for all mana shields except wind mages'. Which is why you'll only see mostly wind mages use mana shield more often because it doesn't get drained as fast. (fire mage for example, only use mana shield for Force of Protection even though they will also be drained in 5 seconds like an ice mage).

    And your last comment, survivability and accuracy? Does not compute. No such thing. Arena gear has barely any accuracy, no accuracy set bonus, and no accuracy on IDs. Let us not forget that while almost every other class gets accuracy and evasion bonuses mages get nothing. In fact, we also have the lowest stats. While others get tons of free accuracy off talents, mages have to use gear for it, losing tons of crit dodge, crit defense, and resistances from arena gear.

    If you argue that arena gear and ESPECIALLY the arena set is not THE gear for survivability, then you're playing a different game I'm afraid.
  • Unbrokenable - LionheartUnbrokenable - Lionheart Posts: 313 Arc User
    edited April 2012
    I never once said anything about arena gear. Although it's entirely feasible to use 5 arena pieces then a 3 piece champion set, which will net you decent accuracy and still very high survivability.

    And the skills I mentioned -- everything is situational. Now drake skin is pretty bad to just randomly use, but when someone's gunning at you it could be the difference between them hammering you to an inch of your life and them not being able to do much before you freeze them again.

    I'm referring not to 1v1, and transform is quite good in 3v3 -- since they'll probably get healed anyway, the fact that it heals isn't really important, they will still be prevented from attacking you for a pretty long time. Ice block usually if you know you're about to get focused down or if you're about to die, either way they will either (1) camp next to you, in which case they are losing equal amounts of wrath, or (2) go attack someone else, in which case they will be distanced from you once again, putting you in a much better position.

    Someone playing an MM (also regarded as a "squishy" class) would kill for skills like that, currently they only have 1 panic button (cloud) which doesn't even guarantee their safety. You can complain all you want about them but at least you have the option available to you.
  • Aishleen - EyrdaAishleen - Eyrda Posts: 2,005 Arc User
    edited April 2012
    Ice block usually if you know you're about to get focused down or if you're about to die, either way they will either (1) camp next to you, in which case they are losing equal amounts of wrath, or (2) go attack someone else, in which case they will be distanced from you once again, putting you in a much better position.
    You have no idea how freaking annoying is the ice block for melees but Bors never gets it because he never played one to experience, and only thinks of his downfall of losing wrath but never from enemy's point of view.

    Maybe cuz he's playing fire mage which has almost no CC and thus he has way more difficulties keeping wrath up vs anyone with any decent CC.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Borsook - EyrdaBorsook - Eyrda Posts: 2,951 Arc User
    edited April 2012
    And of course it always goes down to "mages are better than MMs" "MMs would kill for this/that". Like yeah really, that's your point that mages are good, cause they're better than MMs, the worst class in the game. I'm so impressed by this argument.

    Ice block makes enemy lose wrath? And the point of that is? Compare Ice Block which is absolute garbage because, it's like a second Drake Skin (minus mana drain, but with long **** CD). It will rarely be useful for whole 16s duration. Enemy can move away from it of course, to gain orbs. Which makes you able to cancel it right?

    But then wtf is the point of it? Just to survive 1 killing blow? That's a GOOD FIVE MINUTE COOLDOWN SKILL for you?

    Compare with SWIFT EVASION, compare with ROCKY PROTECTION. Compare with DIVINE UPHOLD. You know, actually good 5min cooldown skills.

    Ice Barrier is the worst ever possible, even worst than MM's Weakening Cloud.
  • Unbrokenable - LionheartUnbrokenable - Lionheart Posts: 313 Arc User
    edited April 2012
    Your complaint is you lose wrath while invulnerable. Why don't we just take away your ice block, now you just die instead. Would you rather be alive with no wrath or dead?

    By the way, you get ice block, transform, and mana shield as class abilities (i.e. available without talents). Vampires have dark bond / feast, warriors have divine uphold, prots have rocky, MMs have cloud, bards have sleep, sins have...stealth. Priest shield, bard shield, BoR, ACM, imp form -- are all talented abilities. You have 3 panic buttons, then complain that 1 of them doesn't match up to every other classes'....okay.
  • Borsook - EyrdaBorsook - Eyrda Posts: 2,951 Arc User
    edited April 2012
    Your complaint is you lose wrath while invulnerable. Why don't we just take away your ice block, now you just die instead. Would you rather be alive with no wrath or dead?
    If that removes Rocky, DU and Shadow Protection and priest LoS and other skills from other classes, yeah.
    By the way, you get ice block, transform, and mana shield as class abilities (i.e. available without talents). Vampires have dark bond / feast, warriors have divine uphold, prots have rocky, MMs have cloud, bards have sleep, sins have...stealth. Priest shield, bard shield, BoR, ACM, imp form -- are all talented abilities. You have 3 panic buttons, then complain that 1 of them doesn't match up to every other classes'....okay.
    Transform has 2s cast. Warriors don't even NEED a panic button, hello? They are tanky as all hell. Oh wait, their panic button doubles their critrate as well, iceblock is definitely up to par. Rocky Protection? This is most obvious, it's EVERYTHING Ice Barrier offers, but with ability to attack and move. etc etc.

    In all games, every game, mages who have lowest survivability stats must always balance that out with overpowered skills. Here it seems it's 2 in 1, **** stats and underpowered survival skills compared to other classes. Great balance.
  • Sgtpwn - LionheartSgtpwn - Lionheart Posts: 4 Arc User
    edited April 2012
    The thing about Pray is it is separated from the warrior's other skills: Blade of Reflection and Divine Uphold. When I use Rocky as a prot, everyone's just like "**** that" and run from me like their life depends on it (which it kinda does). Whereas the warrior can strategically use the 3 deterrent skills. Prot does have ACS which is about equivalent to BoR, but BoR is a lot scarier in my opinion...each time I hit it I'm actually afraid to die, whereas ACS if I'm okay with getting stunned I'll go ahead and hit it anyway.

    I'll agree with you that gale force is really nice for orbing. That's generally how I end up using it, to break out of a snare and quickly gather some nearby orbs.

    Geared mages -- they have a lot of ways to delay their impending doom (e.g. transform, ice block, drake skin, CC). They are usually pretty darn tanky at the same gear level as well, because they don't need to (and probably shouldn't) build for damage, but rather for survive and accuracy.

    Even though warriors do have these three skills at their disposal, they are not as effective as you may think. Pray would have to be the most effective of them all since it removes and grants immunity to most cc. Next up would be BoR, but as you explained with rocky, things go pretty much the same with BoR, except the enemy has more options. With rocky the only choice is too run where as with BoR the opponent can choose to transform, bond, sleep, etc. Sometimes you can get away with even attacking during it with out any major effect. ACM is nice because its basically a heal, hence why there is a stun. Whether the opponent continues to attack and stun themselves is even more of a benefit. ACM allows the prot to reestablish their position in a fight where as with BoR if you are already close to dieing the opponent will continue to attack you without any retaliation from you. Yeah gale force does have plenty of perks to it, I pretty much use it the same way, or to rid myself of that annoying elf mana drain >.>. It depends on the mage, but either way prots are going to struggle with water classes; every class needs a counter. I am aware how powerful a mage can be with sufficient gear, but I am not geared enough to see how I would fare against a mage with high funding, for now all I can do is attempt.
  • Sgtpwn - LionheartSgtpwn - Lionheart Posts: 4 Arc User
    edited April 2012
    Forgot to include my take on DU, which increases your defense by 2000 I think. As good as this sounds its actually quite misconceived. Defense is a stat the directly reduces the intake of the opponents base attack so for classes that do not depend too much on base attack they will still hit decent damage. My Force of Fury hits about the same with DU up and seeing how most warriors use it when they are almost dead, I take them down then and there. DU might be less dependable than the MMs Cloud...which is saying a lot if you have ever casted that skill.
  • im2gr84uim2gr84u Posts: 695 Arc User
    edited April 2012
    DU is only noticeable used by an Aegis with a decent tree build. As for me, blood warrior, I use it as an offensive skill, when I want to crit.

  • Borsook - EyrdaBorsook - Eyrda Posts: 2,951 Arc User
    edited April 2012
    What do you exactly mean by good geared mage?

    A mage will never attain decent survivability unless he has at least a couple arena pieces (not set) or 12/12 them. In which case, a warrior for example can go full arena set, get way more perks and stats (including the OP crit dodge from the set) while not even needing accuracy because hey, he can debuff evasion by 90.

    It's not just about HP. A tanky mage won't hit even half-assed evasion builds. Simply put mages are absolute garbage in stats, even if they go the survival route their accuracy will be hellishly low. And they need to balance it with skills but at the moment, their skills aren't remarkable to begin with compared to other classes.
    Forgot to include my take on DU, which increases your defense by 2000 I think. As good as this sounds its actually quite misconceived. Defense is a stat the directly reduces the intake of the opponents base attack so for classes that do not depend too much on base attack they will still hit decent damage. My Force of Fury hits about the same with DU up and seeing how most warriors use it when they are almost dead, I take them down then and there. DU might be less dependable than the MMs Cloud...which is saying a lot if you have ever casted that skill.
    That's false. Defense simply subtracts damage. The reason your FoF goes through DU so to speak is because it just hits insanely hard for ONE hit.

    Multi-hit skills are garbage against DU. They will most likely hit '1' everytime, because for example 2000 damage each hit 6 times will result in 2000-2000 = 1 (capped at 1) 6 times, = 6 total damage.

    Whereas, a 5k hit will be 5000-2000 = 3000 damage.

    Even though without DU, 2000 six times would hit 12k (which is way more).
  • xxialenxxialen Posts: 4 Arc User
    edited April 2012
    What do you exactly mean by good geared mage?

    A mage will never attain decent survivability unless he has at least a couple arena pieces (not set) or 12/12 them. In which case, a warrior for example can go full arena set, get way more perks and stats (including the OP crit dodge from the set) while not even needing accuracy because hey, he can debuff evasion by 90.

    Well first off, the comparison to warriors is wrong in my opinion. Warriors need accuracy because their base acc is low to begin with AND they get no acc buffs in any tree. If warriors go fulll 70 arena gear with let's say, level III eagle-eyes they'll have less than 400 accuracy. That's not enough to hit any true eva stacker at 70+ The eva debuff is only for the elemental tree and people usually only put one point in to threatening roar to get assassins out of stealth. Level 1 threatining roar reduces eva by 20, which isn't going to make a dramatic difference if you've built full arena gear against and eva stacker. A vampire for example will just debuff your accuracy and make threatening roar useless.

    I'd say a mage with around 30k health would survive easily in your everyday arena matches considering all the CC they have. Mages can put off death in a few ways, while warriors cannot. Divine Uphold is pretty much useless in 90% of situations. Reflect is only for one tree and you still get hurt during reflect. Not to mention you have to have a pretty high base attack and a good amount of wrath for it to do anything.
  • Aishleen - EyrdaAishleen - Eyrda Posts: 2,005 Arc User
    edited April 2012
    xxialen wrote: »
    Divine Uphold is pretty much useless in 90% of situations.
    It doubles crit chance, how is that bad? Most warriors use it for that not defense boost.

    And 1/4 threatening roar, who's fault is that? lol
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Borsook - EyrdaBorsook - Eyrda Posts: 2,951 Arc User
    edited April 2012
    xxialen wrote: »
    Well first off, the comparison to warriors is wrong in my opinion. Warriors need accuracy because their base acc is low to begin with AND they get no acc buffs in any tree. If warriors go fulll 70 arena gear with let's say, level III eagle-eyes they'll have less than 400 accuracy. That's not enough to hit any true eva stacker at 70+ The eva debuff is only for the elemental tree and people usually only put one point in to threatening roar to get assassins out of stealth. Level 1 threatining roar reduces eva by 20, which isn't going to make a dramatic difference if you've built full arena gear against and eva stacker. A vampire for example will just debuff your accuracy and make threatening roar useless.

    I'd say a mage with around 30k health would survive easily in your everyday arena matches considering all the CC they have. Mages can put off death in a few ways, while warriors cannot. Divine Uphold is pretty much useless in 90% of situations. Reflect is only for one tree and you still get hurt during reflect. Not to mention you have to have a pretty high base attack and a good amount of wrath for it to do anything.
    I love how you talk about Threatening Roar and Blade of Reflection being in only one tree, and then talking about how many CCs mages have. Which is actually low, unless you are ice, which is surprise surprise, only one tree.

    So your point was? That (ice) mages have tons of CC? Why argue about non-elemental warriors when I bring that point up?

    Thing is, it's your fault for not 4/4 Threatening Roar. And Warriors can't put off death are you serious? Do you know how devastating a crit stun can be?

    And also WTF twisted logic do you use? "A vampire for example will just debuff your accuracy and make threatening roar useless." are you kidding? WTF?

    You realize a vampire can debuff a mage as well, and instead of hitting 5% he will hit 1%... where the warrior at least will cancel it out with threatening roar. (in fact, -90 evasion is ALOT more than Dark Curse, it's around double its effect)

    You have to have a pretty high base attack for BoR? Oh wow, you have to have a pretty high end gear / refinement as a mage also to reach 30k HP. 30k HP is alot of HP for a mage, unless you're one of those uber OP like me (for example, with 50k+). Most average mages have around 30k HP and they're squishy as hell. And you say BoR needs gear? Really?
  • Unbrokenable - LionheartUnbrokenable - Lionheart Posts: 313 Arc User
    edited April 2012
    I'd say a mage with gear level of about lv1 wings and ToK blue gear can hit 30k without much difficulty. I don't think that's asking for too much.

    At this point I think we're assuming everyone is PvP-specced, so the CC argument on mage is valid. As a prot, no one can keep me off of them longer than an ice mage, with the possible exception of a water bard, but I never expect to beat a water bard.

    Vamp debuffs 60-odd accuracy, at least for dark. And keep in mind that evasion is more "effective" than accuracy, as in you need about 1.5 accuracy to counter 1 evasion.
  • rayminhrayminh Posts: 3 Arc User
    edited April 2012
    glacial priest, solo-aoe-heal
    rebel priest, solo-dps-heal
    vamp, solo-dps-some heal
    none of MM, war, prot or mage can self heal as good as 3 choices above
  • Borsook - EyrdaBorsook - Eyrda Posts: 2,951 Arc User
    edited May 2012
    I'd say a mage with gear level of about lv1 wings and ToK blue gear can hit 30k without much difficulty. I don't think that's asking for too much.

    At this point I think we're assuming everyone is PvP-specced, so the CC argument on mage is valid. As a prot, no one can keep me off of them longer than an ice mage, with the possible exception of a water bard, but I never expect to beat a water bard.
    Even a Glacial Priest can keep you off better than an Ice Mage, if human that is. Since elf focuses on stun instead of ensnare (I assume that's what you mean by "keeping off" right?).

    Don't forget the **** cooldowns on Frost Realm and Ice Edge ON TOP of them going off after 2 hits, which makes mages have really only one spammable ensnare, and guess what, it has a 10 second limitation, NO other class does. As in, even if you have 1 million mages Ice Arrow on same target in a chain, that target can only get ensnared once every 10 seconds.

    I don't know how the hell you reach 30k HP with lv1 wings and no purple gear. By lv1 wings I assume no item is 12/12 right... because 12/12 isn't exactly average, let's say 9/12 is average.

    With 9/12 gear and lv2 wings I had 28k HP, and I had arena blue boots. With five Bloodstone IVs.

    Did you know that mage arena boots are incredibly overpowered compared to other classes' arena boots? Did you know that normal mage boots are so **** that they felt the need to make this for arena gear to balance out this gimped class stat-wise?
    Vamp debuffs 60-odd accuracy, at least for dark. And keep in mind that evasion is more "effective" than accuracy, as in you need about 1.5 accuracy to counter 1 evasion.
    Exactly my point?

    -90 evasion from an elemental warrior is equivalent to +135 accuracy. How does -60 acc from dark vamp "counter" this? Not to mention that a dark vamp can debuff a mage too, to make him not able to hit literally anything if he had trouble to begin with.
  • Nyos - NyosNyos - Nyos Posts: 422 Arc User
    edited May 2012
    lol this is like someone wanna say how Op is mage and another How not OP is mage. I wont talk about Prot here coz ppl usually ingore them in fight coz of their blablabla someone else can talk about this.

    But mage and War. Can say they r deffrent type of class not only on melee and ranged.

    If mage, they can improve themself with more offensive stat and more defensive stat. but at certain point they hit their dead end that they cant improve more or it cost too much to improve, There is noway to improve their CC abiltie with stat. There is no Ice rate and Ice dodg, so there is no counter to their CC skill(exept evasion) making most of us feel helpless against them.

    If Warrior, they can improve themself with more offensive stat, defensive stat and CC stat like Cirt rate, coz of that their cc can become really low when ppl add cirtdodg making them have almost no cc.

    Conclusion
    all mage got same amount of CC, which is good for nub and bad for OP, coz their Op CC is equal as nub cc. and OFC Nub feel Pro coz they got same cc as Pro mage :)

    For War their their CC increase as they get better, so nub stay nub, and Pro get more Pro, if there is anypro war that is.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Unbrokenable - LionheartUnbrokenable - Lionheart Posts: 313 Arc User
    edited May 2012
    Even a Glacial Priest can keep you off better than an Ice Mage, if human that is. Since elf focuses on stun instead of ensnare (I assume that's what you mean by "keeping off" right?).

    I haven't ever had nearly as much trouble with a glacial as an ice mage. Glacial is something that screws you over if you leave it alone because of the constant draining, but once I'm on them I actually have an advantage. Glacials are basically helpless once you're in their face, they have no priest bubble and drop pretty fast, and if they're healing themselves they aren't attacking.

    There is a way to deal with glacial priests. I can at least negate the majority of the problem when I'm facing them. When I'm against an ice mage I'm more or less at the mercy of the ice mage; the mage has to fail in some manner when dealing with me in order for me to do any significant damage.

    Exactly my point?

    -90 evasion from an elemental warrior is equivalent to +135 accuracy. How does -60 acc from dark vamp "counter" this? Not to mention that a dark vamp can debuff a mage too, to make him not able to hit literally anything if he had trouble to begin with.

    That was in no way directed to argue with you, I was just clarifying what it does.
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