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  • ILikeBigGu - IllyfueILikeBigGu - Illyfue Posts: 1,066 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    I don't mind him not having that skill, for the reason I prefer him not having it. Ha!
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Credits to BerenOneHand for the awesome sig

    New arena video (2015/05/01):
    youtube.com/watch?v=o3_ds-W-Hpo
  • Drachus - EyrdaDrachus - Eyrda Posts: 1,532 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    Mene! -astonished turnip- Long time no see.

    They need turnips on here...


    @cureaustria: -nvm. pointless to debate with you, and just plain silly to apologize.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • cureaustriacureaustria Posts: 497 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    menengroth wrote: »
    You're sacrificing too much for the 8s of no cc on a long cooldown, I assume you at least have Abandonment @ 2/2, but what else are you giving up? Light Protection? (more dmg/HE from mastery), Godly Might? (-eva -crit from Damnation) Judgement?

    And there's no need for the few seconds of no cc when you have 8s of complete damage immunity + a speed buff from Wind of Blessings as rebel o.O

    And if we're talking in terms of arena, a whole team missing ALL of their attack buffs, compared to just 8 seconds of not being cc'd every 220s?

    I have my own eva rebel, SwiftPain, trust me xd


    PS: Fruity! *licking turnip*

    in arena its in round 1 and 3, and this removal of controll effects goes on whole group

    the whole group is 5sec immun, bard sleep wich could kill the heal priest, or bound from priest that he can heal,. warriors are not slowed by mages or bards andandand

    marksmen press one button and acc buff is on all back, warrior press one key and same (1sec)

    all three buffs from priest are defense one, not removed
    -buffpets are buffing automaticly
    8sZUl3Ixj5sQ.jpg

    sorry but after one round the MM knows to press this 1sec button and warrior to counter
    the super ordanary "punishment removal"

    and all others klick on pet with acc and atk buff

    done.

    no anti cc - no immunity for group
    is that clever?

    amazing why im answering and dont give a ****
  • cureaustriacureaustria Posts: 497 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    Mene! -astonished turnip- Long time no see.

    They need turnips on here...


    @cureaustria: Apologies for being rude. I just find it strange that you belittle punishing removal .. and rebel priest itself.. so much (while simultaneously being arrogant..). I too have had an eva rebel priest, and that skill has helped me incredibly. I also did not feel gimp as you describe. I had to unfortunately change my eva rebel divine/arena gear to help guildies, but I enjoyed the class so much that I made a new priest recently to play it again. I spec'd into punishing removal as soon as I hit 75. I've also seen a couple of rebels who can absolutely destroy face, so I am wondering what you are doing wrong to essentially describe the class as if it is useless. Not having punishing removal and sacrificing so much for glacial long cd anti cc are two things hurting you I think.

    sorry but this is rude again and dont apologize again in same post beeing rude again.
    and talk to this "rebels" and how they are doing against
    -mage with high acc (mage that hit nearly evrything)
    -against apearing redhand sins
    -warriors with high acc, maybe reflect on (and nope you wont survive it, 18sec redhand bumping is too much)
    -me (if they can kill me because of this punish. removal)

    and im always saying "rebell need anti cc" because when im surrounded by people
    THIS is the skill to kill the healpri

    ask your spoken rebels how they kill the healpri when 2 warriors for example are on them
    (warriors because they always stun)

    dont tell that me is arrogant when its not the same opinion of you
    that only makes a bad mood for nothing

    im not actualizing this thread, i dont want to argument with likebigguns and evryone which offended me for reason zero.
  • menengrothmenengroth Posts: 55 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    in arena its in round 1 and 3, and this removal of controll effects goes on whole group

    the whole group is 5sec immun, bard sleep wich could kill the heal priest, or bound from priest that he can heal,. warriors are not slowed by mages or bards andandand

    marksmen press one button and acc buff is on all back, warrior press one key and same (1sec)

    all three buffs from priest are defense one, not removed


    sorry but after one round the MM knows to press this 1sec button and warrior to counter
    the super ordanary "punishment removal"

    and all others klick on pet with acc and atk buff

    done.

    no anti cc - no immunity for group
    is that clever?

    amazing why im answering and dont give a ****

    60s cd, use at start of the round, thats all 3 rounds in arena. vs good teams anyway, not people that die in 20s.

    Pets rebuffing automatically? Sure, the _1_ pet people have out, how about the 4-5 still in their bag?

    Never said it removed pet acc buffs.

    Furthermore, perhaps you should test it before coming back here and telling me whats what? Punishing Removal takes off priest's Blessing of Fortunes buff. Which is the acc/eva just like i said. Also removes the crit def. And why? Because the buff gives mastery.

    And its not often people stop to rebuff dragon power/warcry in the middle of a fight. Only person i've seen rebuff is toLLL with Accuracy Guidance.

    Perhaps you should climb back down off that high horse and do some research before you try to tell other people what it can and cannot do.
  • Drachus - EyrdaDrachus - Eyrda Posts: 1,532 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    sorry but this is rude again and dont apologize again in same post beeing rude again.
    and talk to this "rebels" and how they are doing against
    -mage with high acc (mage that hit nearly evrything)
    -against apearing redhand sins
    -warriors with high acc, maybe reflect on (and nope you wont survive it, 18sec redhand bumping is too much)
    -me (if they can kill me because of this punish. removal)

    and im always saying "rebell need anti cc" because when im surrounded by people
    THIS is the skill to kill the healpri

    ask your spoken rebels how they kill the healpri when 2 warriors for example are on them
    (warriors because they always stun)

    dont tell that me is arrogant when its not the same opinion of you
    that only makes a bad mood for nothing

    im not actualizing this thread, i dont want to argument with likebigguns and evryone which offended me for reason zero.

    I said I have and play a rebel priest of my own, and I find your assertions about the class and skills incorrect. I do not have to talk to another rebel, as I have experienced it myself. If you're getting killed so much and find certain skills useless, you're doing something wrong.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • ILikeBigGu - IllyfueILikeBigGu - Illyfue Posts: 1,066 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    I believe he "QQ" more about the lack of anti cc as elf priest in general, than the rebel talents. Just my translation of him talking about it though, and well, that is true. They have none but badge, at least you have immortality as rebel.
    Anyway to answer the question don't think alot of people can kill priest while having two wars on them, following cure's example.. However just stay alive at those moments, let someone else kill priest. Also you are evasion, so still very nice survivability compared to us non-evasion.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Credits to BerenOneHand for the awesome sig

    New arena video (2015/05/01):
    youtube.com/watch?v=o3_ds-W-Hpo
  • mggwmggw Posts: 138 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    Just get holy shield true rune, problem solved.




    Jk... I believe it's slightly difficult to succeed as a crit build priest simply out of survivability issues so I guess eva's the way to go. Even as an eva rebel, you would still have to stack crit def preferrably in the neck, offhand, and rings (all w/ bonus) as well as resistances. Endgame, you would need around 500+ eva. Either that or stack crit def w/ arena and/or prec/crystal gear. Rebels have insane mana drain and the three seconds in which a target cannot be healed is an incredible skill. As useless as people make punishing removal out to be, it is still very effective when timed appropriately and used in the right situations.
  • cureaustriacureaustria Posts: 497 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    I said I have and play a rebel priest of my own, and I find your assertions about the class and skills incorrect. I do not have to talk to another rebel, as I have experienced it myself. If you're getting killed so much and find certain skills useless, you're doing something wrong.

    i never told that im gonna be killed a lot,because of 3 points more spent in water tree
    i can tell you in detail the killratio because im writting it in excel to have an overview
    in which direction i have to do something
    AND its not adding punishment removal :D

    last week
    monday
    FF 35/0, daily
    arena 14 win, 0 loose all 6v6
    tuesday
    FF 28/0 daily
    FF 37/0
    FF 33/2 (Scarlet_ and once gangbanged)
    wednesday
    FF 45/0,daily
    arena 3v3, 7 win 3 loose
    arena 6v6 5 win, 5 loose (yeah was not going good)
    thursday
    FF 18/0, daily
    Friday
    FF 12/0 daily
    FF 39/3 (damn you Scarlet_, 1x gangbanged)
    arena 6v6 3 wins, glooms finsihed -no further arena)
    saturday
    FF 28/2 (2x gangbanged)
    guild wars 71/0
    sunday
    FF 58/0
    FF 54/1 (dont know who, maybe gangbanged)
    FF 32/5 (mindwrack, gangbanged)
    NoMansLand 2x times killed by Megamage -then killed him and he went off and me too

    sums up to 554 according official killlist
    (btw here you can see alangos that he is well doing /was added last days to MM list,
    Xarta has 355 kills as light bard?! amazing^^
    and Rocksana should have taken place in mage list, one of the most dangerous firemage)
    7a131083bda56fad94bab04c774dd9e91392042845.png
  • DoomRaven - Storm LegionDoomRaven - Storm Legion Posts: 829 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    Mene! -astonished turnip- Long time no see.

    They need turnips on here...


    @cureaustria: -nvm. pointless to debate with you, and just plain silly to apologize.

    You know you wanna be like him T;Sly
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    tinyurl.com/AegisPvPVideos
  • RaizensFur - NyosRaizensFur - Nyos Posts: 220 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    curendaro, while you have a good grasp of the game and its mechanics you are also completely oblivious to other aspects of the game. No matter what someone tells you, you always have some sort of explanation or excuse to wave off their comments/opinions.

    The only reason youre doing so well is this: You have good evasion, res and mastery. Your 'power' comes from the fact that a lot of players(80-90% im guessing) dont have decent lightres meaning you hit them much harder than most would expect.

    Your playstyle ill describe as cautious(dont want to sound too bitter here) since you almost always blindside someone or run from the main pvp pack then come back to finish off whats left(this is based on YOUR FF recordings). You will only get into the thick of things of the opponents cant, or have a hard time hitting you. Thats not bad, but dont come here and pretend your gods gift to fw because quite frankly youre not. As i said before you have a good working knowledge of things but you think you know everything and come off extremely arrogant.

    We dont care about your spreadsheets with frags because this isnt a first person shooter game. I'll be willing to bet you only count the FF's where you do well and not the ones where you get trashed( theres a screeny where someones ALT has more kills and a better k/d ratio than you).
    So in short: be constructive or please keep your stats, spreadsheets and other babbel to yourself....
  • DoomRaven - Storm LegionDoomRaven - Storm Legion Posts: 829 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    In other words, any evasion is good at killing PVE/ no res / acc people T;Moustache
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    tinyurl.com/AegisPvPVideos
  • Drachus - EyrdaDrachus - Eyrda Posts: 1,532 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    Wew. Little overly defensive of your epeen, cureaustria. All I said was you make it sound as though you are weak and dying often ... mostly when someone criticizes you.

    lol @ showing tons of FF k/d as if that means something...
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • CountVonCo - IllyfueCountVonCo - Illyfue Posts: 668 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    Careful guys, he will just go back and delete all his posts.

    Again.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    <Forever with Vepigi> | Lv90 PvE Dark Vamp

    youtube.com/user/TheAdonisTUBE
  • Sephmeister - EyrdaSephmeister - Eyrda Posts: 1,249 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    Careful guys, he will just go back and delete all his posts.

    Again.

    I like your signature. It is epic! T;Applauding
    Back on topic.. wait.. we talking about nutella.. right? T;Puzzling
    | ★ <Total Darkness> ★ | ★ <Twin Emperor's Bane> ★ | ★ <Balerion Slayer> ★ |

    "Tell me what you cherish most. Give me the pleasure of taking it away."
  • senrinsenrin Posts: 824 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    From top pvp players to rebel priest's talents and playstyle...
    Smth is wrong...
    Let's go back to the original topic!
  • cureaustriacureaustria Posts: 497 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    its not an easy topic,

    there are people which dont want to get called, because they dont want to stay in same list -they think on list are bobs and interesst reduces for that reason to get in this list

    about 3v3 , 6v6 top team, i think that makes no sense, there will be always a counter team

    and then 10 players are too much for some, 3 are too less,
    its not easy^^

    CountVonCo - Illyfue, Drachus - Eyrda, RaizensFur - Nyos, DoomRaven - Storm Legion
    are only here to make bad mood (btw the last one is not even from EU)

    and thats how its going

    the sidetopic startet with rebel priests because 2 offended for reason 0
    -me never startet this sidetopic, only was answering, from start till end

    btt, sevrine and rocksana should get an place in list, who should leave for this OPness^^
    who has new opinions or to that special case of this 2
  • farm00rfarm00r Posts: 6 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    Sooo in the end of the day we got a more or less good list of good played (and CSed) Toons on EU Servers.
    But let's be honest: We can theorycraft as much as we want, in the end what do you use it for if you get 1shotted by someone.
    Every Class is OP in someway (tho i gotta admit i never thought that MMs can hit that hard e.e), and in Forsaken World the word "skill" is somehow strange. Because in the end the more you CS, the higher are your chances of actually winning a lot, even if you can't play at all. Let's take an example: If a sin is CSed af, and he has throat seal on the key 1, he can just stealth, press 1 a few times (or just once) and win.
    Greets
  • ninle1ninle1 Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    btt, sevrine and rocksana should get an place in list, who should leave for this OPness^^
    who has new opinions or to that special case of this 2


    I would remove MonteChristo or Zuccini from list for Sevrine.
    Sevrine hits really hard and got a great survivability cause of his high eva.
  • cureaustriacureaustria Posts: 497 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    in earlier days, vamps sins made huge damage,
    it was disbalanced in a few ways -oneshooted by sin? yes probably happened

    the creators fixed it, without picking spezialy the vamp or sin,
    they implemented an "self working" tool

    the gloomery and bookskills^^

    they know, everytime someone is complaining about an other class, he will pimp
    his book for this case

    for example, you got killed a lot by sins -you skill your book physical

    they didnt screwed the sins "directly" but indirectly^
    95% of players nowadays have physiscal resistance +168

    with no possibility of +168 for this sins

    when i had to choose between water and light mastery, i didnt choosed light
    because its somehow "better" , simply its not

    but evry pvp char has incredible water resistance, and lowest light
    that gives me an advantage of 30% upwards on evrything what damage belongs

    when i hear someone, you only win because of your eva and light mastery,
    then i think - its not my fault that you dont have light resistcance -thats your own fault

    its not my fault why your running with pve crit and crit power instead of pvp accuracy ability

    sure evasion and high accuracy doesnt make sense in pve matters, thats the same
    with crit and crit power in pvp

    special cases - marksmen with his huntersmark -he will hit while using high crit rate/power
    AND sins - but for the mass its not preverable

    its easy to say -this cure only press random keys and onyl because his evasion light mastery he can kill, but in truth the arroganc level is near 0 of me and
    only facing people with things they dont want to hear

    pushed crit power crit rate, high attack over motnhs years -
    then meets cure and got simply knocked out with not a lame chance

    sure this cure must be arrogant^^ only way to not facing the truth and play further
    with crit/crit power high attack for the next years

    yesterday 1v1 water priest with higher mastery -more cashed -high accuracy
    he should win, because he is counter with this setting for rebell / stuns +mana leach
    slow and whatever, what an rebel cant provide

    then the holy cow the damn 3 points in water tree changed it, i was able to move
    i was able to get orbs, i was able to kill him further and he retreated and ran away

    thats because of random pressing keys^^ evasion? sure he hitted evrything but it was evasion why i got the kills^^ ah wait light reisstance :D ah damn this one was higher cashed and had light res ENOUGH

    i know its not easy to see that theres no arroganc, but its not my part to change
    peoples view

    btt at poster, one year ago i would have sayd -yes your true
    but nowadays time has changed and its not that way anymore
    (crit def got more focused by players too in this time)
  • Drachus - EyrdaDrachus - Eyrda Posts: 1,532 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    cureaustria: Asks that the thread be on topic -> Everyone stops posting about him, so he posts a wall of text about himself that is off topic again.

    ^That is one example of how people know you're arrogant.

    pst. An eva rebel should kill a glacial. I won't say why that is, since you should know the answer yourself.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • cureaustriacureaustria Posts: 497 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    when you read last posts, me was the only one which was asking something to topic and nothing was answered

    and your "helpfull" i dont know whats going on in your brain, but - your answer is offtopic (as always, realy always^^)

    iv seen your name a lot in forum and you started a lot troubles, always offtopic

    whats your mission drachus, is this somehow to let steam out?
  • Drachus - EyrdaDrachus - Eyrda Posts: 1,532 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    Yup my last post is off topic, but I was just too amused. You essentially asked people to back off of you, so they stopped posting.. then you brought it back up yourself without provocation. The two posts after your request and before your new wall-o-text about yourself had nothing to do with you o:

    Most of my posts (as well as the other players you called off topic) before the past two actually are relevant, tbh! Ever since the start of this thread, people have been calling out others, criticizing playstyles, etc. Then when your playstyle is questioned, you QQ and say it is off topic. Aw, poor you :(

    pst: I have no goals on the forums other than for amusement and information. Pretty easy to figure out which situation this falls into.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • cureaustriacureaustria Posts: 497 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    Yup my last post is off topic, but I was just too amused. You essentially asked people to back off of you, so they stopped posting.. then you brought it back up yourself without provocation. The two posts after your request and before your new wall-o-text about yourself had nothing to do with you o:

    Most of my posts (as well as the other players you called off topic) before the past two actually are relevant, tbh! Ever since the start of this thread, people have been calling out others, criticizing playstyles, etc. Then when your playstyle is questioned, you QQ and say it is off topic. Aw, poor you :(

    pst: I have no goals on the forums other than for amusement and information. Pretty easy to figure out which situation this falls into.

    its easy to say to an video - god damn bad!
    its easy to say that on simply evrything

    i would love to see more ingame videos how others are doing,
    or other information than "this is bad!"

    im not sure if we ever met ingame, and when i cant remember

    fill the thread with stuff^^ and not with "this is bad!" sentences
  • ILikeBigGu - IllyfueILikeBigGu - Illyfue Posts: 1,066 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    its easy to say to an video - god damn bad!
    its easy to say that on simply evrything

    i would love to see more ingame videos how others are doing,
    or other information than "this is bad!"

    im not sure if we ever met ingame, and when i cant remember

    fill the thread with stuff^^ and not with "this is bad!" sentences

    He play in eyrda as his name sais, so probably haven't met ingame. Unless he got some alt for EU server
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Credits to BerenOneHand for the awesome sig

    New arena video (2015/05/01):
    youtube.com/watch?v=o3_ds-W-Hpo
  • Drachus - EyrdaDrachus - Eyrda Posts: 1,532 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    The thing is... what was said wasn't simply "this is bad." It was "This is bad because xyz," which is a criticism with an explanation. Only since it was about you, you took it to heart.

    Learn not to take criticism so much to heart and get so defensive over it, even from me. If I did the same, I'd have a 500 page doctoral thesis trying to defend myself... and when you defend yourself so heavily, it comes off as being too much.

    Simplifying the scenario that happened->
    Person A: You don't have punishing removal?
    Person B: Punishing removal is good because -insert argument here-.
    Person C: Wow you don't have punishing removal lol...
    You: No, I don't have punishing removal, but -insert argument about your glacial points here-. Nevermind all of that, I'm OP and can still kill massive amounts of people in FF. Here's a massive list of my k/d over the past week compared to other people.

    ^You kinda went too far there, which is why you seem arrogant - you had to somehow "prove" to your detractors that you are strong. You should have left it at "No I don't have punishing removal, but I like my build without it better." <-that shows you have more confidence in yourself and don't have to prove anything to anyone.


    I personally am not fond of you and find you amusing due to arguments in other threads, but my comments here have never been only malicious. I admit I was rude on occasion, but like I said, I'm here for amusement.


    EDIT: I haven't played EU x-server no, but I have played EU servers under different names :)
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • cureaustriacureaustria Posts: 497 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    The thing is... what was said wasn't simply "this is bad." It was "This is bad because xyz," which is a criticism with an explanation. Only since it was about you, you took it to heart.

    Learn not to take criticism so much to heart and get so defensive over it, even from me. If I did the same, I'd have a 500 page doctoral thesis trying to defend myself... and when you defend yourself so heavily, it comes off as being too much.

    Simplifying the scenario that happened->
    Person A: You don't have punishing removal?
    Person B: Punishing removal is good because -insert argument here-.
    Person C: Wow you don't have punishing removal lol...
    You: No, I don't have punishing removal, but -insert argument about your glacial points here-. Nevermind all of that, I'm OP and can still kill massive amounts of people in FF. Here's a massive list of my k/d over the past week compared to other people.

    ^You kinda went too far there, which is why you seem arrogant - you had to somehow "prove" to your detractors that you are strong. You should have left it at "No I don't have punishing removal, but I like my build without it better." <-that shows you have more confidence in yourself and don't have to prove anything to anyone.


    I personally am not fond of you and find you amusing due to arguments in other threads, but my comments here have never been only malicious. I admit I was rude on occasion, but like I said, I'm here for amusement.


    EDIT: I haven't played EU x-server no, but I have played EU servers under different names :)

    öhm it was no polite question which started this it was more like this,
    wow you dont even have punsihment removal? your not even a real rebel

    and i always told that evryone should play as he likes, and if he wants this skill he should skill it

    but it always stays the same, biggest dissadvantage is the "no anti cc life"

    2 both geared priest, one light the other water -when both can hit - the water priest wins

    he can delete sleep, stun and after 30sec the opponent is under 50% mana and blue rune energy skill take effect, or even faster and
    rebel gets cct till end

    the anti cc for the rebell, is the ability of evasion usage, an hit that miss is an "not taken cc" -> same useage of an anticc , result is always same -no cc

    a water priest with high accuracy is counter for the rebell, if you believe me or not
    he is xD

    this one would kill me with punishment removal skilled, and loose when i spent points for anti cc too
    (only bad are the warrior buffs on me to compare and i dont tell who this is^^)

    wSPfrT9r6j2i.jpg


    and dont tell again that this is arrogant when im showing an example,
    showing you an picture that you can better imagine and telling only facts xD
    thats not arrogant xD
  • Drachus - EyrdaDrachus - Eyrda Posts: 1,532 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    You're still trying too hard :|
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • DoomRaven - Storm LegionDoomRaven - Storm Legion Posts: 829 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    T;Applauding
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    tinyurl.com/AegisPvPVideos
  • ToLLL - ShyliaToLLL - Shylia Posts: 200 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    öhm it was no polite question which started this it was more like this,
    wow you dont even have punsihment removal? your not even a real rebel

    and i always told that evryone should play as he likes, and if he wants this skill he should skill it

    but it always stays the same, biggest dissadvantage is the "no anti cc life"

    2 both geared priest, one light the other water -when both can hit - the water priest wins

    he can delete sleep, stun and after 30sec the opponent is under 50% mana and blue rune energy skill take effect, or even faster and
    rebel gets cct till end

    the anti cc for the rebell, is the ability of evasion usage, an hit that miss is an "not taken cc" -> same useage of an anticc , result is always same -no cc

    a water priest with high accuracy is counter for the rebell, if you believe me or not
    he is xD

    this one would kill me with punishment removal skilled, and loose when i spent points for anti cc too
    (only bad are the warrior buffs on me to compare and i dont tell who this is^^)

    wSPfrT9r6j2i.jpg


    and dont tell again that this is arrogant when im showing an example,
    showing you an picture that you can better imagine and telling only facts xD
    thats not arrogant xD

    If you consider Elyase as a Priest with high accu, it's must be a joke ^^ (415 acc selbuffed ^^)
    My youtube : Youtube.com/Tolgrang
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