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help with non pvp mm

re19re19 Posts: 3 Arc User
edited June 2012 in Marksman Discussion
I want to create a mm with no pvp intents, probably precision. What talents are useful and which are useless?

I made my builds, but do not know if they are good.

precision
http://www.aesica.net/fw/?race=0&profession=0&level=80&talent=525534240024030330203302231||

burst
http://www.aesica.net/fw/?race=0&profession=0&level=80&talent=||254352443102034053030302021
Post edited by re19 on

Comments

  • Axym - LionheartAxym - Lionheart Posts: 1,484 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    Burst:
    The 3rd point in Discrete is kinda pointless. It's actually not a great talent, but I do like Flammable so the 2 points can be justified, but the third not so much.

    Also, you have 3 points in soul catch, which you will probably never use, and not have points in BR? You won't be able to use that talent until 70, because that's when you can unlock the Double Shot scroll.

    I personally LOVE burning rage and I use it alot, I mean, it's practically a free CST without losing the soul bullets, not even Double Shot does that!

    Other than that, it's pretty much the same as my build.
    http://www.aesica.net/fw/?race=0&profession=0&level=80&talent=||254252443102034053232002021

    Now if you have no pvp intent... the Speed of Fire skill might not be fore you... after all, you probably won't be using Fast Action unless you're running through an instance where the extra speed and eva won't even matter... I'd personally put those points in Undying Rage and Soul Resistance myself if you aren't pvping.
    http://www.aesica.net/fw/?race=0&profession=0&level=80&talent=||254252403102034053233032021.


    Just my two cents.....


    Going back to soul catch though... I can see the appeal, but I honestly don't use too many soul bullets unless I am using Soul Resolution (sheild) and then a Quick Reloading will just generate those bullets back... so I personally don't see it being a functional 3 points, however, as I said, it does seem appealing and if you want to experiment, I say go ahead.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    As long as I'm captain, the rum shall never be gone.
    tinyurl.com/FWEmotes courtesy of Deltatroopa
  • asd29asd29 Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    Actually Fast Action is a great survival skill in PVE if you have any sort of evasion even around 240-250 at 65+. If your tank loses aggro you just pop cloud+ Fast action and you are unhittable for 10-15 secs. If you are all out evasion spec at 300+eva then you'd only need one of the two. That 10 -15 secs buys you time to get a)healed b)bubble from priest and c) time for your tank to regain control of the situation. And If that not enough you still have soul resolution spare as another survival talent and run around like a headless chicken when you pull aggro.

    Soul resistance however is a very useless skill for a) 45 defense is not going to save you when you get piled by mobs b) neither is 15 resists. Very few mobs attacks have elemental affinity so resists are pointless in pve. There are a few but not enough to overly concern yourself with. Check combat logs for proof. Remember you won't be stealing aggro as burst on single targets you will be stealing aggro on 20-30 mobs and when they all hit you soul res isn't standing up very long

    I will always disagree with the investment of points in Heat Bullet (4%+60 - a net gain of 227 bonus damage on level 10 soul snipe), Soul Burn (well it's just lol DoT) and discrete too many points for the cd reduction), very little net gain in terms of damage or survivability. I would much rather take absorbption or improve hunters mark in precision for raw DPS, weakpoint tag makes all you skills and your parties attack more devastating or going absorbtion makes your biggest single target dps skill even more devastating at 120% of base attack + bonus damage

    With your precision build remove the points in Soulforce return instead place in Amplified Exo bullet. 1)mana regeneration can be obtained easily through food and you will regenrate more that way. 2) Exo bullet is a skill with an additional 5% crit chance so when it crits you want it to be punishing. Exo bullet at level 1 has 3984 bonus damge so per level it's roughly 400 more bonus damage at level 2 it's like 6k bonus damage so it is worth it.

    Dazing shot I'm not sold on but that's a prefference thing
    As a level 80MM my advice for anyone wanting to be a MM - fun class to play. But it's not a button mash class. Be prepared for some frustration
  • plusonecharismaplusonecharisma Posts: 46 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    For a purely PVE Burst Build I would modify your build like this:
    http://fw.perfectworld.com/talentcalc?cls=marksman&r=dwf&b=t1a15t3a14t3a25t3b23t3b45t3c12t3c24t3d14t3d23t3e12t3e32t3f13t3f24t3g45t3h13t3h33t3j31t3k32t3l21

    Drop points in Discrete and Flammable, cooldown is still way to long for the reduction in CD to even matter and flammable only works against mobs, not groups of enemies, the difference being that only specific enemy gathering are mobs and not all groups of enemies are mobs.
    Put 2 points in Zealous Support because a 10s cooldown on a 90s CD skill is huge.

    I raised Heat bullet to 2pts to 4/5 because I needed to spend the points somewhere in the tree so those points are open to reassignment.

    I also reduced Swift Penetration to 3 from the 4pts you specified because a 3s cooldown is all you will ever need for your attack cycle.

    I removed your points from Soul Catch because you wont be spending enough time in Crackshot time for soul bullet generation to ever matter.

    I reduced extending Burning to 1pt since you will never need the additional DOT time extension since you will be cycling Velocity Shot and it it wipes DOTs, plus the reduction in stack damage as stacks are added offsets the longer DOT time.

    All in all, fine tuning your build left me with 5pts left over and although arguements can be made for buffing your Mind Flaying Bullet or reducing cooldown on Art of Reloading, I think the percentage debuff of defense is best and stuck the 5pts there.

    I play a burst hybrid very similar to this build but I PVP also so I need some of the other Tree's talents at the expense of Velocity Shot.


    Finally, if you are going to play a MM Burst then you will have to have hefty defense and health. Warded stout gear is your friend and you should max your defense before geming atk and crit damage. I didnt take my own advise and even at level 80 there are times the mobs eat me without adequate heals


    NOTE: every HP bump makes your shield that much better.


    For Precision, I would recommend this build:
    http://www.aesica.net/fw/?race=0&profession=0&level=80&talent=55553444002000030020330223|051|

    Feel free to ask questions or debate my choices.
  • re19re19 Posts: 3 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    I remade my build without heat bullet, soul burn, discrete and flammable

    http://www.aesica.net/fw/?race=0&profession=0&level=80&talent=||05405044300203405323300002

    For the leftover points, zealous support, soul resistance or both?

    What have more survivability burst or precision?
  • yosiasyosias Posts: 118 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    I remade my build without heat bullet, soul burn, discrete and flammable

    http://www.aesica.net/fw/?race=0&pro...03405323300002

    For the leftover points, zealous support, soul resistance or both?

    What have more survivability burst or precision?
    Today 12:12 PM

    prec is literrally untouchable for one target bcuz knocbacks, burst need heals or a lot os pots to keep whit aggro
    Isock-Soul marksman since 2011
    Tlatsotsonki-light bard
  • Axym - LionheartAxym - Lionheart Posts: 1,484 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    re19 wrote: »
    I remade my build without heat bullet, soul burn, discrete and flammable

    http://www.aesica.net/fw/?race=0&profession=0&level=80&talent=||05405044300203405323300002

    For the leftover points, zealous support, soul resistance or both?

    What have more survivability burst or precision?

    Depends on your build imho.

    If you plant to go eva, I guess even in the slightest, go zealous support... >.> Although I honestly don't see the point, but I don't use FA unless I'm in arena so I guess I'm the wrong person to ask. I went hp/def. I offtank and to me, popping cloud w/ flammable+knockback then sheild keeps me alive no sweat in tight spaces. I have an eva lvl of 209 when self buffed. To me 60 more eva isn't going to be enough (as asd29 said, I'd probably need about 40 more for it to be effective). This is just my playstyle so I would play your mm and get the hang of your skills and playstyle before making any "final" decisions. Fortunately there are plenty of free compasses in case you make a mistake. I wouldn't go both though as imho they are two different build orientation.

    As for survivability, I guess precision because they don't get mob aggro and can usually keep mobs back.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    As long as I'm captain, the rum shall never be gone.
    tinyurl.com/FWEmotes courtesy of Deltatroopa
  • yosiasyosias Posts: 118 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    you can also mix the two, in a pve only hibryd http://fw.perfectworld.com/talentcalc?cls=marksman&r=dwf&b=t1a15t1a32t1b23t1c11t1c23t1c32t1d24t1e22t1e34t3a12t3a24t3b24t3b45t3c12t3c23t3d23t3e32t3f24

    i was using it for a while before finally heading for full burst
    Isock-Soul marksman since 2011
    Tlatsotsonki-light bard
  • asd29asd29 Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    yosias wrote: »
    prec is literrally untouchable for one target bcuz knocbacks, burst need heals or a lot os pots to keep whit aggro

    A lmassive generalisation about the burst tree. You go full warded stout and you will get hit and need a crapload of pots. You go all out evasion, we're talkin 300-330+ eva and you stand there and laugh while mobs try to hit you. For every 20 attacks you'll be luck to see 5 touch you. You will be the least healed in proportion to the number of mobs attacking you. But even as evasion spec you can't neglect hp but 20-25k is very attainable at 70+. As burst you have a massive eva buff if any tree was designed to go all out evasion this is it. and at 90secs cd it is fairly spammable. I got up to 360 eva for arena prior to swtiching to soul (but at 70+ arena eva is pretty pointless). And well it was easy. If you don't get hit, don't need heals. And i barely needed to use cloud. I've been last one standing in a lot of instances AS, GoS, FP AC simply because i never got hit. Evasion is a more expensive route though however in pve I still think it's a better way to go as burst over warded stout. You just need enough hp to not be one shot by bosses. However your priest bards will thank you when you're wiping rooms clear of trash mobs and not being a mana sink.

    Also use knockback sensibly. If a prot can't hit something because you're continously knocking it away, they will have a very difficult time generating aggro and keeping heat off you. Mass taunt is useful but has a hefty cooldown. So most of the time prots are using skills like Earth Rift and Upheaval to generate aggro. These skills need to connect to generate aggro.
    As a level 80MM my advice for anyone wanting to be a MM - fun class to play. But it's not a button mash class. Be prepared for some frustration
  • Axym - LionheartAxym - Lionheart Posts: 1,484 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    I've been tanking mobs since AOS. I have hardly had a problem and especially not recently. I don't see the problem going hp/def. I'm not saying eva isn't good, and I'm not saying it's not viable, but it's just not my playstyle.

    Do I need pots/heals, yes, but since all mobs are on me there's no reason for priest not to heal or even bubble... though I haven't been bubbled in a while either >.>" The prots and wars I run instances with don't even bother trying to take aggro because they know there's no point, and it'd just be better for all mobs to stay on me since I'll just get aggro back. Yes I get it, but I won't die from it, I have enough durability that I can stay standing for a while, to me, eva can go wrong if you get unlucky, and while you might not get unlucky often, that one time might **** you over. As I said, this is just my opinion and my playstyle, eva is perfectly viable and is probably how mm's were designed. I personally don't like it.

    Most bosses, where prots and wars need aggro are cc immune, meaning knockback does nothing, and the knockback isn't that far anyways.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    As long as I'm captain, the rum shall never be gone.
    tinyurl.com/FWEmotes courtesy of Deltatroopa
  • yosiasyosias Posts: 118 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    i am not saying you die if you get aggro, im saying that you get a lot, and tus u need to be healed or poting, so maybe eva is good and we have like 3-4 skills that gives eva, but i cant get more than 240 because i cant get gold/zen to buy star cristals, so unless you get more than 300+ you are going to be hit

    and kockback doesnt affect bosses, but i prefer to be/have a prec mm vs them or in gl xD
    Isock-Soul marksman since 2011
    Tlatsotsonki-light bard
  • asd29asd29 Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    yosias wrote: »
    i am not saying you die if you get aggro, im saying that you get a lot, and tus u need to be healed or poting, so maybe eva is good and we have like 3-4 skills that gives eva, but i cant get more than 240 because i cant get gold/zen to buy star cristals, so unless you get more than 300+ you are going to be hit

    and kockback doesnt affect bosses, but i prefer to be/have a prec mm vs them or in gl xD

    don't need star crystals to improve evasion. Refining improves atk/def/hp/mana, not evasion. You need agile gear with a second (or3rd) evasion id - all you need is Mistshrouds (cost peanut now on most servers) and sapphire scroll/parchments. Remeber you can only slot one type of gem in each piece so you can't slot 3 mists in on piece of armor. Also evasion accesories - ring neck offhand. This is where it gets expensive. Getting the evasion ids and accesories is where you need a bit of cash

    Of course you want a precision mm in gl there are barely any mobs and 1 boss. It's not like you're going to be swarmed by mobs in gl. Things like world bosses and no trash mobs are where precision is preferred. Things like Fort K and most gear instances are where burst mm shine.

    Knock back however does affect trash mobs and mini bosses in fissures. Knockback from what i recall is a pain the rear in cracked fissures as well.
    As a level 80MM my advice for anyone wanting to be a MM - fun class to play. But it's not a button mash class. Be prepared for some frustration
  • re19re19 Posts: 3 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    Which one has higher survivability without cash. Precision dont mob, so less danger, but burst got defensive talents.
    thanks for the help
  • asd29asd29 Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    Well you have to take into account what you plan to be doing more of. As a burst MM you'll be tend to be wanted for more gear runs so you'll have more chances at getting scrolls/gear. 90% of the callls for mm on my server are for burst. As a precision MM you'll be wanted for more World Bosses. It's not so much without cash that's the issue it's speccing for what you want to do more of. A competently made party is your key to survivability no matter what you do. A lazy prot/priest will not keep you alive no matter what you pick. I mean you don't really need cash anymore to be decently IMO you get a whole heap of star crystals/gems/refine transfer gear so having poorly refined gear less than +6 is just fail. Hell if I started again today I'd be +12 boots from day 1.

    Not to say burst is useless at WB's because there are adds and they need to be dealt with. Precision MM are useful in stances because they are extremely good support characters at 55+. It's just what is regularly called for.

    In any case you need HP for everything, Instances will have nasty bosses, most world bosses hit like trucks.
    As a level 80MM my advice for anyone wanting to be a MM - fun class to play. But it's not a button mash class. Be prepared for some frustration
  • plusonecharismaplusonecharisma Posts: 46 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    wrong thread
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