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itsphiiitsphii Posts: 494 Arc User
edited May 2012 in Marksman Discussion
Teach me your combos & builds for MM :)

Every tree please, I've seen guides and such but most guides are outdated, and lack reasoning behind each skill.

Does every Mm Talent build Have To Use Mind Fraying + Fire At Will 2 Get Soul Bullets?

Do you all Keep Crack Shot Time Up At All Times?

Why does Fire at will still give +1 soul bullet while crack shot time is active, or unactive (with soul catching). Shouldn't it be -1 then +1 = 0 while crack shot time is up?

Disclaimer: I am not intending to make a MM, just want to learn more about the class
Post edited by itsphii on

Comments

  • asd29asd29 Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2012
    CST is extremely difficult to stay in if you're a tree other than soul. The talent Soul Concentration combined with Soul Discharge and Spare Ammo makes it a LOT easier to have a ready supply of bullets. So no depending on tree/talent FAW+MFB can generate more than 2 bullets

    It's far more complicated than just telling you what rotations are and why. There's a lot of variables. What's your tree, what are the talents you have, what level are you? they all play a part in your rotation. Is it for PVE or PVP? But the gist is this on other player or bosses always open with hunters mark. In a pve setting if you have any skills that debuff eg maxed lava burst talent in burst tree you should use that next. At a minimum that's -80resistance to earth and fire skills. Meaning after these 2 whatever skill you hit the target with they will take approx 8% more damage. You could follow with Rake, soul snipe, FAW, MFB, use FAW again if soul catching availabe otherwise repeat as it's a 10 sec debuff, With Exo bullet/high velocity Shot/Burning Swirl useable on cool down. At this rotation, You are providing DoT damage as well as a debuff ensuring your whole party is causing more damage(Hunters Mark) and maximising the damage of your single target skills. Against multiple mobs penetrating shot then rake and continously spam those 2 that simple.


    I'm pure Soul now and in a PVP sense it's much much more complicated. Some skills and debuffs and negative status effects you can apply just don't work on other classes. You have to take into consideration who your squad mates are. You have to kae into consderaton your target. There is no one size fits all rotation for pvp. But yes I till open with hunter's mark. But for example i wouldn't follow with soul snipe or exo bullet against a water bard as they're immune to stuns/silences while shield is up. There's just way too many variables. And I don't mean to make it sound difficult but really it's trial and error that will help most in a pvp aspect
    As a level 80MM my advice for anyone wanting to be a MM - fun class to play. But it's not a button mash class. Be prepared for some frustration
  • itsphiiitsphii Posts: 494 Arc User
    edited May 2012
    asd29 wrote: »
    CST is extremely difficult to stay in if you're a tree other than soul. The talent Soul Concentration combined with Soul Discharge and Spare Ammo makes it a LOT easier to have a ready supply of bullets. So no depending on tree/talent FAW+MFB can generate more than 2 bullets

    It's far more complicated than just telling you what rotations are and why. There's a lot of variables. What's your tree, what are the talents you have, what level are you? they all play a part in your rotation. Is it for PVE or PVP? But the gist is this on other player or bosses always open with hunters mark. In a pve setting if you have any skills that debuff eg maxed lava burst talent in burst tree you should use that next. At a minimum that's -80resistance to earth and fire skills. Meaning after these 2 whatever skill you hit the target with they will take approx 8% more damage. You could follow with Rake, soul snipe, FAW, MFB, use FAW again if soul catching availabe otherwise repeat as it's a 10 sec debuff, With Exo bullet/high velocity Shot/Burning Swirl useable on cool down. At this rotation, You are providing DoT damage as well as a debuff ensuring your whole party is causing more damage(Hunters Mark) and maximising the damage of your single target skills. Against multiple mobs penetrating shot then rake and continously spam those 2 that simple.


    I'm pure Soul now and in a PVP sense it's much much more complicated. Some skills and debuffs and negative status effects you can apply just don't work on other classes. You have to take into consideration who your squad mates are. You have to kae into consderaton your target. There is no one size fits all rotation for pvp. But yes I till open with hunter's mark. But for example i wouldn't follow with soul snipe or exo bullet against a water bard as they're immune to stuns/silences while shield is up. There's just way too many variables. And I don't mean to make it sound difficult but really it's trial and error that will help most in a pvp aspect

    Interesting thanks, I think it's like that for nearly every class of what skills to use etc on each class.

    Basically FAW is the skill for soul bullets? The thing I dislike is, it seems you have to use that skill a lot, and it's a earth skill :/ So i'm assuming with high fire mastery you'd be missing a lot of damage
  • asd29asd29 Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2012
    You don't use it a lot unless you are precision. You use it when soul catching mode is available. That is the only time Fire at will can generate a soul bullet. All classes are multi element some are even 3 elements wind water light for bard and fire water wind for mages. It is a trade off hence it important to use your debuff skills to maximise damage. There is also quick reloading (all trees), soul discharge (soul tree only), Spare ammo (soul only) that generate soul bullets.
    As a level 80MM my advice for anyone wanting to be a MM - fun class to play. But it's not a button mash class. Be prepared for some frustration
  • Trogotha - Storm LegionTrogotha - Storm Legion Posts: 662 Arc User
    edited May 2012
    itsphii wrote: »
    Interesting thanks, I think it's like that for nearly every class of what skills to use etc on each class.

    Basically FAW is the skill for soul bullets? The thing I dislike is, it seems you have to use that skill a lot, and it's a earth skill :/ So i'm assuming with high fire mastery you'd be missing a lot of damage

    Er, sort of but as has been pointed out, it depends on what you want to do overall. As a Burst / Prec hybrid that is focused on PvE and has all the DoT skills, I can very quickly run out of bullets since my favorite boss tactic is to activate CST, use Double Shot, and then use Extreme Sniping along with Exo Bullet, Soul Snipe, Aimed Shot, and Rake of Fury. If I'm not being killed slowly by lag, I can easily pull all those off before I run out of time from Double Shot and which means I've used my two highest damage single target skills along with adding 3 DoT effects with one of those effects being double because a soul bullet was spent plus the extra damage granted to both base and bonus from Double Shot and CST respectively. Granted it burns through my clip quickly, but I tend to leave CST off since my regular AoE attacks have such short cds that the extra nudge to bonus damage isn't worth it and lets me save the bullets for boss combat.

    Now keep in mind, the above listed rotation takes nearly 15s to cast together so it isn't really PvP friendly where your target can easily ignore the tank to hunt down your squishy butt and gank you.
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  • itsphiiitsphii Posts: 494 Arc User
    edited May 2012
    asd29 wrote: »
    You don't use it a lot unless you are precision. You use it when soul catching mode is available. That is the only time Fire at will can generate a soul bullet. All classes are multi element some are even 3 elements wind water light for bard and fire water wind for mages. It is a trade off hence it important to use your debuff skills to maximise damage. There is also quick reloading (all trees), soul discharge (soul tree only), Spare ammo (soul only) that generate soul bullets.

    Let's say I was soul for example in the middle of PvP. Since soul catching has a really high % chance to activate, wouldn't I be using FAW a LOT in the middle of the fight. For water bards we only need to use a wind chord every 10 seconds, but FOW has a 3 sec cooldown or so i believe? At the same time, how essential are soul bullets to MM in pvp? Is it a "must"?, it seems a little annoying to have to spam FAW.

    Also does anyone know "Why does FAW still gives +1 soul bullet while crack shot time is active, or unactive (with soul catching). Shouldn't it be -1 then +1 = 0 while crack shot time is up?"
  • asd29asd29 Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2012
    Honestly we can't help you much more unless we know more about what kind of mm you are. You may have to spam FAW or you may not it depends on your tree/build. Also for 2 trees 40% chance to trigger soul catching mode. 40% chance is a fairly low probability. You also seem to keep ignoring quick reloading.
    As a level 80MM my advice for anyone wanting to be a MM - fun class to play. But it's not a button mash class. Be prepared for some frustration
  • itsphiiitsphii Posts: 494 Arc User
    edited May 2012
    asd29 wrote: »
    Honestly we can't help you much more unless we know more about what kind of mm you are. You may have to spam FAW or you may not it depends on your tree/build. Also for 2 trees 40% chance to trigger soul catching mode. 40% chance is a fairly low probability. You also seem to keep ignoring quick reloading.

    I said let's assume i'm soul above :P. I am ignoring quick reloading because it seems a long cd, 60 secs with all the talents, and I don't know if MM's would stop in the middle of a fight to cast it, but I'm sure they would take the time to use the 75 soul skill since that is low cast time fast bullets.
  • Axym - LionheartAxym - Lionheart Posts: 1,484 Arc User
    edited May 2012
    As for 100% burst:

    http://fw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=327391

    Any questions, feel free to post there.

    I don't really use CST because it's not really efficient, I'd rather have the 20 acc, and I use Soul Resolution a bit, so I'd rather have those bullets there when/if I need them. I mostly use QR to generate soul bullets because it's 4, and I'm not using them a lot.

    However, MFB+FaW is still in my single target repertoire because I just don't have the cd or other skills to hit bosses or the last mob with.

    As for combos, the only really set combo I have is for bosses.

    Hunter's Mark > Burning Rage > Extreme Sniping > Exo Bullet > MFB then Soul Snipe, FaW, Penetrating Shot and MFB whenever they are off cd until ES is off cd then rinse and repeat. I will occasionally use Rake of Fury in a boss fight, but only if none of my other skills are off cd (minus Burning Swirl or Velocity Shot).

    For aoe, it's pretty much faceroll my 4 aoe skills :P primary focus on RoF.
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  • Zeryz - LionheartZeryz - Lionheart Posts: 35 Arc User
    edited May 2012
    http://fw.perfectworld.com/talentcalc?cls=marksman&r=dwf&b=t1a12t1a35t1b25t1b45t1c12t1c23t1c34t1d24t1e22t1e32t1g23t1g33t1h22t1i33t1j13t1j22t1k22t1k33t2a35

    Prec...
    Went into soul for the soul catching extension.
    Crack shot time.. I turn it on then drain it then turn it off until I can use double shot again then restart :o

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  • asd29asd29 Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2012
    itsphii wrote: »
    I said let's assume i'm soul above :P. I am ignoring quick reloading because it seems a long cd, 60 secs with all the talents, and I don't know if MM's would stop in the middle of a fight to cast it, but I'm sure they would take the time to use the 75 soul skill since that is low cast time fast bullets.

    You have to manage bullets no matter what tree you are, as soul, cst =+3%crit chance, +9% crit damage, +20% damage. You have to use the damage potential approriately by turning cst on and off. Quick reloading is used, that's when you have to be smart, abuse your range, use the terrain eg obstacles to protect yourself from being assaulted, deadly chaserd etc etc, you use it when your oppent is silenced for 6 secs with your HM+exo bullet talent or when you've ensnared an opponent for 6+ secs using pulse shot. Also you forget that in soul you need to take the following talents Soul Concentration - Every time you generate ONE bullet you have a chance (60%) generate one more eg you use quick reloading you can generate 6-8 bullets not just 4. Soul Discharge - an attack that generates a soul bullet on it's own when cst is off and uses none when it's in cst. Soul concentration stacks with every soul bullet generation skill except spare ammo. EG MFB+FAW, Soul Discharge, Quick reloading all can in theory generate double the soul bullets they can normally generate. Some people take soul rift or stray bullet for additional bullet generation. But i'm pure arena pvp only so fights are over within 2-3 mins and those talents don't really come into play in such short fights. It'd be more useful say at EB world bosses. Also not to be a smartass but you don't walk into a fight with no bullets you always run around with a full clip before running into a fight.
    As a level 80MM my advice for anyone wanting to be a MM - fun class to play. But it's not a button mash class. Be prepared for some frustration
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