test content
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc

AS vs ToK gear

Crum - EyrdaCrum - Eyrda Posts: 506 Arc User
edited May 2012 in Marksman Discussion
Which set do you guys think is better? Purely from a pvp perspective mind you. I'm currently using the AS set and the zodiac wep which puts me at 550 acc selfbuffed which is enough to hit evasion stackers without marking them. I rarely hunter mark anything unless i get hit with dark curse and facing a light bard who managed to buff their eva and lower my acc.

Switching to ToK I'd lose 50 accuracy and 12% crit dmg but get more attack and hp. And hp is yummy thanks to our new shield.

I also pondered non-set tok gear but I feel the set bonuses outweigh any sort of precise/mighty stout gear. Deadly stout would be a different can of worms but yeah, that wont happen lmao.

Thoughts? :x
Post edited by Crum - Eyrda on

Comments

  • dr4koedr4koe Posts: 38 Arc User
    edited April 2012
    How are your talents placed?... Was it soul/burst hybrid? I remember reading it a while back, but can't find the post. Can't really discuss the dif armours without knowing that.
  • Crum - EyrdaCrum - Eyrda Posts: 506 Arc User
    edited April 2012
    Current pve/arena pvp build

    6 shot and spammable RoF every 60 secs is major win for small scale pvp imho <3

    Planned endgame pvp build

    Biggest reason being the 5k reflect on bor warriors my guild is facing in mass pvp renders RoF completely useless :/ Pair it up with reflection aura on a 50k hp prot and I can one shot myself from a single aoe >_>

    On a side note here, doesn't CN version have a MUCH smaller reflect % on bor?

    But yeah, I did some math which turned this into a no brainer for me xD. I completely ingored the bonuses from refines when I originally posted the thread - ended up switching to the ToK set minus the weapon for base stats. I went from 29 to 32k hp and got an extra 200-300ish attack putting me at 4.3k attack (+12 boots and +9 everything else, plan on getting +12 wep and shoulders as my next priority). I figured since most of our skills have pathetic bonus damage apart from mfb and exo bullet but relatively high base (120/130/145% on mfb, ss and sd respectively) I'd get a lot more from having higher base attack than a lil bit crit damge.

    Now I DID lose quite a bit of accuracy so I'll have to test how that goes in pvp, but I have to say I'm in love with the higher numbers already xD

    Still interested in hearing opinions though, mm section has been deadish lately. Dunno why, the new shield alone makes us completely awesome sauce, and I used to be one of the biggest QQers regarding our (lack of) survivability prior to this patch.

    Midget powah! :D
  • dr4koedr4koe Posts: 38 Arc User
    edited April 2012
    Thanks for posting the end game build - right now I'm assuming you're 'pvp' is more for Rift than for 3v3 (or 6v6/dueling). Note --> for my actual suggestion, just read the last paragraph, I wonder a lot in the middle :cool:

    In terms of accuracy - if you have enough acc to hit anyone on your server without hunter marking, then a decrease in acc won't matter if you just hunter mark. I'm a little surprised that you hardly use it, in pvp I always make sure hunter mark stays on. It decreases resistances - but more importantly, gives you cc ability. 50% chance to stun is still 50%. That, and it's your longest range ability. But seeing as you've switched already, with the stats being:
    I went from 29 to 32k hp and got an extra 200-300ish attack putting me at 4.3k attack (+12 boots and +9 everything else, plan on getting +12 wep and shoulders as my next priority).

    BTW, which weap is zodiac? Is that the lev 75 AS weap or the EB weap? Just doesn't ring a bell with me.

    Looking at this, I'd ask what your crit def is like. On my server, even lev 1 wings can easily hit into 20-30k if you don't have much. I've also been having problems with the shield - it appears that it can get interrupted in that 1 sec cast time. I've often popped it while stunned, thought it cast, and went back to dpsing, only to die in another 2 hits because it didn't work (so much for our cc-useable ability).

    Essentially you using TOK set sort of puts a limit on your HP, but I don't know if that's relatively high on your server. What do you find that kills you in pvp?

    I guess I'll talk about it relative to my planned equips. I've stayed away from AS and TOK because I didn't think they gave enough survivability. Even with our new shield, what really gets through is crit dgm. I'm therefore established a fairly strong crit-def focus. I'm planning to use 3 pieces of the new 75 pvp armour (hopefully eventually switch it for 3 pieces of epic pvp), along with epic pieces. However, a huge loss is on the atk side. I plan to make up for the crit dgm through IDs (pvp equips are relatively 'free', so should be able to just buy and id until I get crit).


    In terms of your equips, I would give a major consideration to using only 6 pieces of the TOK set. Either remove your boots for an epic/high forged pair (5000 base hp), OR an epic pair of shoulders (300 base atk, 2000 hp), in exchange of the 15% crit dgm (If you find an epic piece with 6-7% crit dgm, then u really only lose 8-9%). If you're focusing on atk, and don't have high crit chance (I'm assuming 2 gs3s, maybe deadiliness 2, putting you at 20% most other pvpers would have 7-12% dodge), it probably be better.
  • Crum - EyrdaCrum - Eyrda Posts: 506 Arc User
    edited April 2012
    dr4koe wrote: »
    Thanks for posting the end game build - right now I'm assuming you're 'pvp' is more for Rift than for 3v3 (or 6v6/dueling). Note --> for my actual suggestion, just read the last paragraph, I wonder a lot in the middle :cool:

    I actually find my hybrid build to be better suited for arena than rift. I usually open with mark/bor for some easy orbs then pop quick reloading and spam rof if i dont get some major cc on me. Wipes the area clean pretty quick if I live.

    The problem with mass pvp (rift and WBs/zodiacs where we get 100 ppl from 3 guilds) are effin elemental warriors (and prots with ret aura don't help xD). It wasn't as bad in the past when people didn't have this high of an attack, but nowadays my guild is facing warriors whose bor reflects 5k a hit. Put just 3 of those into a group of 50 people and you two shot yourself in 2 secs without even being hit (and being an mm you're a prime target to begin with lol).
    In terms of accuracy - if you have enough acc to hit anyone on your server without hunter marking, then a decrease in acc won't matter if you just hunter mark. I'm a little surprised that you hardly use it, in pvp I always make sure hunter mark stays on. It decreases resistances - but more importantly, gives you cc ability. 50% chance to stun is still 50%. That, and it's your longest range ability.

    What usually happens is one guild farms rh off eachother then rushes into the kos guild with rh in order to kill them (they also have rh ofc). Now if I aoe, I'm usually dead coz of reflect + a sin or whatever. So what I do is just select prime targets (their top mages/sins/mms/bards/priests probably in that order) and nuke the **** out of them with mfb/6shot/whatever is not in cd. Hunters mark is a waste of time in those situations unless its a really super high evasion person since both sides have red hand.

    Like I said though, I usually open with mark + bor in 3v3/6v6. 27m mark, bor, run back and get orbs before i even get hit (ideally, doesn't always work of course). Sometimes i gotta RoF whatever i can reach to unstealth a sin before he jumps me, depends on the situation. I don't find the -34 res to be a factor, but like you said, the 50% stun is still a 50% stun.
    BTW, which weap is zodiac? Is that the lev 75 AS weap or the EB weap? Just doesn't ring a bell with me.

    The 75 purple EB wep. Tuesdays is EB/vexxers, Wednesdays are Zodiac bosses (same event technically i know, just the server terminology differs I guess).
    Looking at this, I'd ask what your crit def is like. On my server, even lev 1 wings can easily hit into 20-30k if you don't have much. I've also been having problems with the shield - it appears that it can get interrupted in that 1 sec cast time. I've often popped it while stunned, thought it cast, and went back to dpsing, only to die in another 2 hits because it didn't work (so much for our cc-useable ability).

    My crit def is nonexistant :/ I still have 4 completely useless mistshrouds from my early evasion days; I will eventually switch those with crystallines, I just don't have the money to do everything right away xD
    Essentially you using TOK set sort of puts a limit on your HP, but I don't know if that's relatively high on your server. What do you find that kills you in pvp?

    Less than a dozen mms with 30k hp - most I see are around 23k. There's one mm that I know of with 40k but thats with purple arena boots at +12 and lvl4 bloods. I don't have a single lvl4 gem personally.

    As for what kills me 90% of the time... sins, sin+war ganks or rh mages D:
    But I'm not complaining. Pre-nightfall a single sin could drop me before I could blink. Thanks to the new shield I think I finally have enough survivability to survive that initial spike dmg and give the priest a chance to heal me. Of course, I'm talking about people in the same gear range not lvl3 winged folks with 80+ mastery. In those cases im dead meat xD
    I guess I'll talk about it relative to my planned equips. I've stayed away from AS and TOK because I didn't think they gave enough survivability. Even with our new shield, what really gets through is crit dgm. I'm therefore established a fairly strong crit-def focus. I'm planning to use 3 pieces of the new 75 pvp armour (hopefully eventually switch it for 3 pieces of epic pvp), along with epic pieces. However, a huge loss is on the atk side. I plan to make up for the crit dgm through IDs (pvp equips are relatively 'free', so should be able to just buy and id until I get crit).

    You mean the new arena set? Blue is kinda bad imo, purple is super awesome but have fun getting 2.7 lol. I won't even try for that since I can't put up a fight vs heavy csers who already have what I hope to have in a year.
    In terms of your equips, I would give a major consideration to using only 6 pieces of the TOK set. Either remove your boots for an epic/high forged pair (5000 base hp), OR an epic pair of shoulders (300 base atk, 2000 hp), in exchange of the 15% crit dgm (If you find an epic piece with 6-7% crit dgm, then u really only lose 8-9%). If you're focusing on atk, and don't have high crit chance (I'm assuming 2 gs3s, maybe deadiliness 2, putting you at 20% most other pvpers would have 7-12% dodge), it probably be better.

    Oh I agree, but that's gonna take weeks if not months. I would give a piece of my **** for the new boots from the flying boss (they're like the zodiac wep - INSANE base and 2 gold IDs). As of right now though, ToK set is comparable to purple lvl70 arena in stats (less crit/resistance of course) so for the few frags it took me to transfer im not gonna complain about it not being "the best" xD
  • dr4koedr4koe Posts: 38 Arc User
    edited April 2012
    What usually happens is one guild farms rh off eachother then rushes into the kos guild with rh in order to kill them (they also have rh ofc). Now if I aoe, I'm usually dead coz of reflect + a sin or whatever. So what I do is just select prime targets (their top mages/sins/mms/bards/priests probably in that order) and nuke the **** out of them with mfb/6shot/whatever is not in cd. Hunters mark is a waste of time in those situations unless its a really super high evasion person since both sides have red hand.

    It seems rift is a lot more evenly matched for you. On storm there's almost always a de-facto winner, rarely a 'fair' fight. It also seems like your battles have a lot more people involved. I'm rarely involved in any more than 2 teams of 6 (on either side), and tbh, I'm always using hunter cause of its range... Whether to get the stun on, or even ensare to get the mage off his horse and unable to get into aoe range of the rest of my group... Preventing sins from re-stealthing. Now I havn't quite tested this, but silence only works so far as I know when disarm does. And disarm only works against marked - therefore silence only works against marked.

    The only time I can see you not using mark is if you can kill using BoR, MFB, and SD, without anything else. In that case, yeah, no need for mark. Otherwise, that 1 second cast time is made up for in benefits.
    My crit def is nonexistant :/ I still have 4 completely useless mistshrouds from my early evasion days; I will eventually switch those with crystallines, I just don't have the money to do everything right away xD

    This is why I'm focusing on some pvp equps (should have specified I only getting 3), for the crit def... I have enough where the lev 3 cs sins can't just 1-2 hit me know, and priest can actually heal. My equips are going to be very shiftable.. I have a couple pices with +2% crit chance, and waiting on my reptuation levels to increase enough I can get certain epics. I'll probably use waist/shoulder/chest of pvp until I can find better. If I find a good shoulder, I'll switch that out for pvp pants, for example. My primary focus is crit dgm, crit def, atk, crit chance (in that order). I'm sort of in transition right now... Crit dgm focus works AWESOME with prec in pvp (huge bonus dgm, and double shot gives the crit chance), but right now my soul build has like no atk power... Needs epic hands, and more 9/12ed gear (so I can embed my rage 3s)...
    Oh I agree, but that's gonna take weeks if not months. I would give a piece of my **** for the new boots from the flying boss (they're like the zodiac wep - INSANE base and 2 gold IDs). As of right now though, ToK set is comparable to purple lvl70 arena in stats (less crit/resistance of course) so for the few frags it took me to transfer im not gonna complain about it not being "the best" xD

    I do like the set-up you've got now. The 4% loss in crit chance is a shame, but an EB weap (yeah, diferent terminology) makes up for it for sure... I would wait until a spectacular boot or shoulder comes along (don't go out of your way looking for one)... It took like 4 months for me to find an epic boots with 5325 base health (would add almost 2.5k health over your 4.4k set boots), though I don't know how expensive it would be to switch. Might be chaper to just 12/12 shoulders in stead. But those new legendary boots --> I'd def aim for those xD... Those bosses are just a mess on our server, and now spawn prevented :(.
  • plusonecharismaplusonecharisma Posts: 46 Arc User
    edited April 2012
    Which set do you guys think is better? Purely from a pvp perspective mind you. I'm currently using the AS set and the zodiac wep which puts me at 550 acc selfbuffed which is enough to hit evasion stackers without marking them. I rarely hunter mark anything unless i get hit with dark curse and facing a light bard who managed to buff their eva and lower my acc.

    Switching to ToK I'd lose 50 accuracy and 12% crit dmg but get more attack and hp. And hp is yummy thanks to our new shield.

    I also pondered non-set tok gear but I feel the set bonuses outweigh any sort of precise/mighty stout gear. Deadly stout would be a different can of worms but yeah, that wont happen lmao.

    Thoughts? :x

    Switching from the AS to the ToK gear would still be a better move for you, if you are set on blue sets.

    You can reforge the ToK gear for some serious upgrades in attack and HP(shield bonus too) and then re-id to make up the crit damage and accuracy versus your current gear.


    Now that being said, I have chosen to stick with the GoS sets I am wearing since I dont see any significant gains going to any of the new sets except the arena purple and Im never gonna reach those scores to obtain it.


    OliverNorth
  • Ginius - IllyfueGinius - Illyfue Posts: 2,509 Arc User
    edited April 2012
    Just a quick note, I don't understand why anyone would go for a gear set with the zodiac weapon?

    Basically for me, what make a gear set worth it are usually the 3 last bonuses, and especially the 8th one (which happen to be %crit chance most of the time).

    Without this last bonus I wouldn"t even consider going for a gear set, and I would more likely tend to some purple pieces and maybe 2 pieces of the arena set for HP.

    On topic, I wouldn't stay with the AS for sure due to the lower base stats.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Signature by Baby.
    Level 90 since august 2014

    - Elemental Warrior 90
    - Ice Mage 90
    - Blood Raider 87
    - Divine Priest 85
    - Water Bard 83
    - Precision MM 80
    - Demon? I hope soon xD
  • Crum - EyrdaCrum - Eyrda Posts: 506 Arc User
    edited April 2012
    Just a quick note, I don't understand why anyone would go for a gear set with the zodiac weapon?

    Basically for me, what make a gear set worth it are usually the 3 last bonuses, and especially the 8th one (which happen to be %crit chance most of the time).

    80 accuracy, 400ish attack, 30% crit damage, and 1.4k hp from the AS set were a good enough reason for me at the time it came out.
    Without this last bonus I wouldn"t even consider going for a gear set, and I would more likely tend to some purple pieces and maybe 2 pieces of the arena set for HP.

    On topic, I wouldn't stay with the AS for sure due to the lower base stats.

    It's a week old thread, I switched to ToK day after I started this thread since I originally only compared base stats while ignoring the bonuses from refines. I have my blonde moments too D:

    ToK pieces are as good, if not better than pre-Nightfall purples, including Koubo drops, since old purples can't be reforged (apart from the zodiac wep).

    4% crit chance is nice, granted, but imo not worth the further attack/hp/accuracy loss that the zodiac gives me (and my build/gemming focuses on).

    Like it's been mentioned, the new boots from the flying boss are the only piece I'd like to switch to, but that's a big when/if.
  • willemholwillemhol Posts: 20 Arc User
    edited May 2012
    Goin for a full set or not, it always gives extra attributes.. which regular gears dont give, so its always a plus to go for a set, even if u dont go for a full set..
  • ILikeBigGu - IllyfueILikeBigGu - Illyfue Posts: 1,066 Arc User
    edited May 2012
    never mind to much text.. xD
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Credits to BerenOneHand for the awesome sig

    New arena video (2015/05/01):
    youtube.com/watch?v=o3_ds-W-Hpo
Sign In or Register to comment.