test content
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc

Are bards overpowered?

2

Comments

  • Borsook - EyrdaBorsook - Eyrda Posts: 2,951 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    The shield only has a 15 second cooldown at 4/4 where you have to be 76+ and full water, otherwise it will have a 20/25 second cooldown where it only lasts about 18 seconds, that 5 seconds with the shield off and still on cooldown.
    You don't have to be full water. You just have to be lv75 to get it to 4/4 from 3/4. Your character, that is.

    If you retalent at lv75, you can instantly make it 4/4 with only 14 points in water.
  • Mhertin - Storm LegionMhertin - Storm Legion Posts: 65 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    I read in a protector's skill description that stacks of fury can grant immunity to slow effects, and elemental warriors with soul devour can become immune, using frenzy stance to escape it.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Value the ones near.
  • p0l3r1p0l3r1 Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    Soul Devour sucks because it only works when you use it and it ends after a succesful attack. If it was a active buff for 10 seconds and stays after hitting someone I would say yes.
  • Unbrokenable - LionheartUnbrokenable - Lionheart Posts: 313 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    I read in a protector's skill description that stacks of fury can grant immunity to slow effects, and elemental warriors with soul devour can become immune, using frenzy stance to escape it.

    This is for Diamond Protector, and the skill as read is 10% chance to dispel per fury stack at rank 2. However, anyone who's actually tried Diamond in PvP knows that you basically never have fury stacks cause Force of Fury consumes them all.

    It's possible to just not cast FoF and build up 10 fury stacks, but then you aren't doing your job as a stunner. Meanwhile you still lose all your mana.
  • Reori - NyosReori - Nyos Posts: 107 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    The only class (to my knowledge) trully invulnerable to slow effect is DARK Vampire, (YES ONLY DARK) with their immunity to slow effects from talent whnever they turn toform. That can happen often or few depending on range to enemy, availability of non target skills (heal, explosion etc) and chance to proc (did they add blood demon or not).
    Inferno Vampire Guide: fw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=298851
  • BringerOfLight - NyosBringerOfLight - Nyos Posts: 394 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    *delete*
  • Aishleen - EyrdaAishleen - Eyrda Posts: 2,005 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    This is for Diamond Protector, and the skill as read is 10% chance to dispel per fury stack at rank 2. However, anyone who's actually tried Diamond in PvP knows that you basically never have fury stacks cause Force of Fury consumes them all.

    It's possible to just not cast FoF and build up 10 fury stacks, but then you aren't doing your job as a stunner. Meanwhile you still lose all your mana.
    Why would you try to stun a water bard who is immune to stun to begin with?
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Claryta - EyrdaClaryta - Eyrda Posts: 119 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    The only class (to my knowledge) trully invulnerable to slow effect is DARK Vampire, (YES ONLY DARK) with their immunity to slow effects from talent whnever they turn toform. That can happen often or few depending on range to enemy, availability of non target skills (heal, explosion etc) and chance to proc (did they add blood demon or not).

    warriors can break slow with frenzy too which is much better than trying to get vampire form out of nothing..
    yeah and marksman too i think altho im not sure yet
  • Aishleen - EyrdaAishleen - Eyrda Posts: 2,005 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    warriors can break slow with frenzy too which is much better than trying to get vampire form out of nothing..
    Yeah only that it's a removal once every 45s, and once you get out of slow they slow you again, making it only good for you to reach them for one more hit and it's done.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Unbrokenable - LionheartUnbrokenable - Lionheart Posts: 313 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Why would you try to stun a water bard who is immune to stun to begin with?

    You don't, you attack someone else. A protector has basically no chance to break the shield so there's no point in trying.

    It's kind of like when I see another protector in arena, trying to fight him is usually not worth it, easier to kill the rest of the team and clean him up at the end.

    Having to choose between slow resistance and stunning is tough though, since a prot's best abilities are his stuns, and is otherwise a mediocre damage dealer.
  • Borsook - EyrdaBorsook - Eyrda Posts: 2,951 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    You don't have to break the shield. You can kill them with the shield on.
  • XDeadly - EyrdaXDeadly - Eyrda Posts: 667 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Or reroll to a bard if you're think its so OP.
    You may not upload animated images.

    da fuq?
  • Aishleen - EyrdaAishleen - Eyrda Posts: 2,005 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    You don't, you attack someone else. A protector has basically no chance to break the shield so there's no point in trying.

    It's kind of like when I see another protector in arena, trying to fight him is usually not worth it, easier to kill the rest of the team and clean him up at the end.

    Having to choose between slow resistance and stunning is tough though, since a prot's best abilities are his stuns, and is otherwise a mediocre damage dealer.
    True but I'd pick being able to DD A bit, and AoE stun with Earth Rift, over that single target stun of Force of Fury but not landing any more hits after a few seconds... and running out of wrath too...
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Kherahoney - EyrdaKherahoney - Eyrda Posts: 4 Arc User
    edited February 2012

    Also the shield isn't immune to everything, Vampire's "Dark Bonds" will make them unable to move or attack,

    dark bonds don't work on water bard who has a shield up, just letting u know
  • iwoaxoniwoaxon Posts: 79 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Really? Can anyone confirm this? I'll have to log in to my water bard just to test this out.
  • Jigglypuff - EyrdaJigglypuff - Eyrda Posts: 605 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    water bards are annoying for melees very much true so. But since when does this game revolve around a 1v1? I mean idk about you guys but i havnt seen 1v1arena yet. If you go into arena 3v3 with 2melees and a priest and you meet a water bard youll prob lose. because water bards kill melees, its just about teamcomp and communication.

    I myself am a wind bard and played all three the trees and several hybrids, as a wind bard i kill water bards, in arena my team knows when i put up my speedbuff its time to get rh and kill that water bard (immunity to slows and ensnares) the only water bards that are troublesome are eva ones but then again i know my acc isnt as high. But just ask borsook what he does with high eva builds.....thats right **** them and how did he get there? Hard work.

    yes there will be water bards who will make you go "wtf how op" but thats not every water bard.
  • Hitoriki - EyrdaHitoriki - Eyrda Posts: 239 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    hmm...
    Fury of Ice is a 6-hit skill with a 2 sec cast.
    FoI > Skill 1 > Skill 2 > Skill 3 > dead water bard.

    :D
    Xiryn: Human Fire Mage
    Hitoriki: Elf Light Bard
    Endurance is one of the most difficult disciplines, but it to the one who endures that the final victory comes.
  • Innos - DyosInnos - Dyos Posts: 30 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    hmm...
    Fury of Ice is a 6-hit skill with a 2 sec cast.
    FoI > Skill 1 > Skill 2 > Skill 3 > dead water bard.

    :D

    I only count 4 hits.

    And even then, as someone has already stated: PvP in this game doesn't revolve around 1v1.
    That is, the bard will probably have a priest.

    => Bubble gone? So what, he'll get healed and recast the bubble in no time.

    A water bard with high resis and +12 equip is nearly indestructible with his bubble.
    Heck it's even hard to kill them with their bubble gone for some classes, because you are permanently slowed, out of mana, sleeped or out of wrath. Also they can heal themselves, while you are cct to a brick.

    It's a real pain against water bards, especially against lvl 80 bards with another super annoying sleep -.-.

    They are like MC hammer!
    Face it.

    Anyone who says else, either plays a bard or has never fought against a good water bard in high-end PvP.

    Btw, I wouldn't go too far to calling them really op..., they might have experienced a bit more love from the devs, just like vamp did (and unlike mm ^_~)

    but on the other hand... what class isn't op with:

    - Red Hand
    - 1k+ masteries
    - +12 full arena epic equip

    At present the game is totally unbalanced in high PvP.
    Too much DMG and way too much CC.

    And I fear it's going to get worse with the upcoming patch, unless they nerf some classes.
  • TrueNoir - EyrdaTrueNoir - Eyrda Posts: 439 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    hmm...
    Fury of Ice is a 6-hit skill with a 2 sec cast.
    FoI > Skill 1 > Skill 2 > Skill 3 > dead water bard.

    :D

    4-hit skill :p but yes, mages destroy bards.
  • Claryta - EyrdaClaryta - Eyrda Posts: 119 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Dark bonds not working on water bard-confirmed
    I can beat bards in my sin tho if they dont kite too much..
    But hey who is nooby enough these days to not kite
  • Borsook - EyrdaBorsook - Eyrda Posts: 2,951 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    I only count 4 hits.

    And even then, as someone has already stated: PvP in this game doesn't revolve around 1v1.
    That is, the bard will probably have a priest.

    => Bubble gone? So what, he'll get healed and recast the bubble in no time.

    A water bard with high resis and +12 equip is nearly indestructible with his bubble.
    Heck it's even hard to kill them with their bubble gone for some classes, because you are permanently slowed, out of mana, sleeped or out of wrath. Also they can heal themselves, while you are cct to a brick.
    Why do people QQ when facing better geared opponents about class balance?

    Do you realize how squishy those bards are if they face similarly geared opponent? I beat lv3 winged water bard with more than half HP left, granted used human racial for sleep but that's about it. (I'm fire mage also, and water bards aren't immune to ice mage CC).
  • Kherahoney - EyrdaKherahoney - Eyrda Posts: 4 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Dark bonds not working on water bard-confirmed
    I can beat bards in my sin tho if they dont kite too much..
    But hey who is nooby enough these days to not kite

    OK i can understand water bards can't be stunned or silenced as their skill description says but, why do they have immunity to ensnare, or some types of sleep.I'm only asking will they fix the description of that skill or adjust their shield?
  • Hitoriki - EyrdaHitoriki - Eyrda Posts: 239 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    4-hit skill :p but yes, mages destroy bards.

    meep, sorry
    Obviously haven't played my mage in a while <_< was thinking of purgatory.
    But still o.o mages (especially human mages) kill water bards reaaally easily. Try taking a wind mage or ice mage with you next time ^^
    Xiryn: Human Fire Mage
    Hitoriki: Elf Light Bard
    Endurance is one of the most difficult disciplines, but it to the one who endures that the final victory comes.
  • Innos - DyosInnos - Dyos Posts: 30 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Why do people QQ when facing better geared opponents about class balance?

    Do you realize how squishy those bards are if they face similarly geared opponent? I beat lv3 winged water bard with more than half HP left, granted used human racial for sleep but that's about it. (I'm fire mage also, and water bards aren't immune to ice mage CC).

    Oi oi, I am just trying to be objective here =).

    Personally I find water bards to be no problem at all (3v3), especially because there are not that many well geared high water bards on our server.
    I do find them really annoying though.

    In 6v6 on the other hand they are a real problem, why?
    The enemy is not that stupid, their team will focus me and other CC in my team -
    and moving around while being CCT all the time is a pain in the ****. Because you can't do anything against it.*

    In the end its either red hand and instant win or no wrath at all.

    And to prove it to you, how sturdy they can be: http://www.anxmusik.de/fwcalc/index.php?|800|700|5000|1400|80|1000|500|80|1|4|682|280|120|40|0|

    Numbers don't lie.
    Now also add the heal they get when the shield is active (30k mp = 1.8k hp healed per hit)

    With FoI that's 7.2k healed, virtually halving the damage inflicted.

    That's 8.6k with red hand, while the bubble is active.
    Without the bubble the same attack would deal 3-times the damage!


    Other classes, especially melee classes will have an even harder time, due to the slow and kiting ability of the bard and obviously the immunity to stun and silence.


    By NO means I would suggest taking the bubble away from the bard... it's the signature skill of a water bard.
    But I would suggest taking away the health recovery or maybe reduce the reduction a bit.

    The gap between the classes is just too big.
    Any other class is easily one or two-hit with red-hand.



    * I don't know how your 6v6 matches look like, but on Dyos it's one huge CC fest.
  • iwoaxoniwoaxon Posts: 79 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    And what were your teammates doing?

    Water Bards are only capable of single target CCing, leaving 5 other people to gather orbs. In my 6v6 matches, the bards are instantly ganked and they're down in 20 seconds flat.

    Also, why are you using FoL as a comparison? The bubble's damage reduction is per hit, not per skill. Of course multi-hit skills will have their damage effectively halved. In exchange, a few multi-hit skills and there goes the bubble, regardless of damage. Try your single hit skills and you'll see you can one or two shot them through their shield with RH.

    Edit: btw, I love your calculator.
  • Innos - DyosInnos - Dyos Posts: 30 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Ice Spike: http://www.anxmusik.de/fwcalc/index.php?|800|700|5000|1400|80|1000|500|80|1|4|682|280|120|40|0|
    Same stats - even less damage :P.

    FoI is the ice mages strongest skill, that's why I chose it.
    Also lots of classes have multi-hit skills.


    And yes, you're right, when the bard is ganked the bubble will be gone in no time.
    But as I said it's not really that easy on our server.
    Typical teams consist of:

    2x Ice Mage
    1x Priest
    1x Bard
    1x Vamp (maybe 2 Vamps)
    1x Protector


    Now try to gank a bard with a priest behind him and your team under constant CC and damage pressure.

    Even harder when its 5vs6 because the arena won't match you any oppenents without a twink ^_~.


    Btw, we don't have that many people with level 2 or level 3 wings on our server, feels like your PvP is a bit different than ours.

    A water bard with low equip obviously stands no chance, even with his bubble up.
  • Borsook - EyrdaBorsook - Eyrda Posts: 2,951 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Ah yes, I see what you're saying. I thought you were talking more 1v1 instead, because that's where people complain of water bards.

    To be honest though, I don't find them such a pain in 6v6. Yes, they are very sturdy, but I never go for water bard first in a 6v6, because they can only single target CC anyway. You can transform him or sleep him or otherwise CC him (darkbonds don't work though) to be free.

    In my server most 6v6 are a CC fest from diamond protectors because we have so few high level ice mages left. Sins are annoying as well.

    Most teams have a couple super geared wind mages or fire mages (mostly me) that do alot of AoE damage (wind mages that can do ~30k at initial wrath tempested purgatory). And for a wind mage or wind+ice mage, the bard shield goes down in no time and they also get cubed at the same time.

    I'm scared of blood vamp's feast though, since with the update and sage/demon thing they can effectively do double damage. 8k / sec at initial wrath is scary.

    Somehow I don't think going for water bard is a good idea, it is obvious they have alot of survivability AND anti-CC, unless you're ice mage CCing. Not to mention, you get slowed just by hitting them.

    Most times in 3v3 I just transform the bard, as a fire mage, I can get 15s CD on transform + bury it with 1/3 magic dispel (so priest can't purify it). But I have to wait for ~20s if I want full duration second time >.>
  • Yarilo - EyrdaYarilo - Eyrda Posts: 244 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    OK i can understand water bards can't be stunned or silenced as their skill description says but, why do they have immunity to ensnare, or some types of sleep.I'm only asking will they fix the description of that skill or adjust their shield?

    Please tell me what kinds of sleep and ensnare (that isn't an outright stun) that water bards have immunity to :P
  • Faust - EyrdaFaust - Eyrda Posts: 922 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    yes, yarilo is overpowered.
    Trash will always be trash, no matter how well it dresses.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Kherahoney - EyrdaKherahoney - Eyrda Posts: 4 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Please tell me what kinds of sleep and ensnare (that isn't an outright stun) that water bards have immunity to :P

    since when stuns and ensnares are the same thing?
2
Sign In or Register to comment.