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Basic Assassin Guide

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  • Teach - Storm LegionTeach - Storm Legion Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2011
    I have a question about Evasion gems and for you sins out there that have some extensive pvp experience:

    How much evasion do you need to start making opponents have trouble hitting you without stacking their gear with a bunch of Eagle Eye II/III?

    I am thinking about gearing towards pvp now that I am a bit higher level and wondering at what point evasion will make a diference.
  • Abels - LionheartAbels - Lionheart Posts: 427 Arc User
    edited May 2011
    I have a question about Evasion gems and for you sins out there that have some extensive pvp experience:

    How much evasion do you need to start making opponents have trouble hitting you without stacking their gear with a bunch of Eagle Eye II/III?

    I am thinking about gearing towards pvp now that I am a bit higher level and wondering at what point evasion will make a diference.

    At least 200 before that you wont notice much after 200 youll see that people will start missing alot. Any higher than that, I have 248, and they'll end up missing about 50%.
  • gunotmangunotman Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited May 2011
    At least 200 before that you wont notice much after 200 youll see that people will start missing alot. Any higher than that, I have 248, and they'll end up missing about 50%.

    is that 248 with swift evasion?

    if not, what all the gems you are using if you dont mind me asking?
  • Abels - LionheartAbels - Lionheart Posts: 427 Arc User
    edited May 2011
    gunotman wrote: »
    is that 248 with swift evasion?

    if not, what all the gems you are using if you dont mind me asking?

    no im edge build so i dont have swift evasion and i stack lvl III Eva, acc. One lvl III mp, two lvl II goldsparks and a few lvl II ragefires. One lvl II shattershard and a lvl I twilight xD
  • Lol_u_dead - EyrdaLol_u_dead - Eyrda Posts: 24 Arc User
    edited May 2011
    hey abels im a very huge fan of urs and i was wondering ur thoughts on dark sin higher lvls 50-60. im a dark sin and i pvp alot and the skill swift evasion is just awsome. it just really change outcome in pvp. i almost think is broken lol. well how effective will this be in highers lvls. also im kinda confuse about the rapid shadow do i spam throut seal and thrust of pain??? cus man the animation is so long lol. and this contract blood with swift evasion means GF? cant possibly run from a dark sin cant hit the sin or use crowed control wat can u do lol 1v1.well im just want to hear ur opinion or anybody's opinion on dark sins near the end.
  • Abels - LionheartAbels - Lionheart Posts: 427 Arc User
    edited May 2011
    hey abels im a very huge fan of urs and i was wondering ur thoughts on dark sin higher lvls 50-60. im a dark sin and i pvp alot and the skill swift evasion is just awsome. it just really change outcome in pvp. i almost think is broken lol. well how effective will this be in highers lvls. also im kinda confuse about the rapid shadow do i spam throut seal and thrust of pain??? cus man the animation is so long lol. and this contract blood with swift evasion means GF? cant possibly run from a dark sin cant hit the sin or use crowed control wat can u do lol 1v1.well im just want to hear ur opinion or anybody's opinion on dark sins near the end.

    well, I've fought against dark sins lvl 60... even on swift Evasion I'm still hitting them and theyre human sins so they use Pray with Swift Evasion to avoid CC and raise their evasion. But they ended up hitting me just as much due to my evasion as well.

    I'm not a big fan of rapid shadow since all it does is remove the cool down from ToP and TS. But really.. if you do TS, ToP, and assassinate.. you can get a good rotation off of that without having to wait for cooldown timer really.

    I really believe that dark build is a defensive mentality build for sins... you've only really got one CC move and thats with lurking sting + talent when theyre 15+meters away from you and thats not really reliable. And I've always loved Swift Eavsions boost in speed and evasion but hated how long it took for the cd to reset.

    VS a dark sin 1v1 all they have to do is keep you on target and attack til they see you on swift evasion, (little moving foot icon) will pop up on your selfbuffs. Then depending on the class this is how theyre gonna react.

    Warriors - will pop their lvl 55 skill, most are aegis or ele so that means boost in hp by 25% + recovery and prob divine uphold as well for the aegis. Ele will use their little blade of reflection skill that returns 1/2 the dmg you do back to you and if you keep attacking about 1/2 way through that theyll pop Divine Uphold as well.

    Protectors - Earths fury to stun you its 100% even if it misses you still... then theyll try to wack you realize they cant freak out.. and then use Stone Protection to grant them immunity and regen their HP.

    MM-they'll just run they never wanna be close to you in the first place so using that doesn't really matter to them theyll just put a hunting mark on you so you cant go into stealth and then kite you til it comes off and kill you with ranged attacks. Since you have no CC skills, this class will prob be the most difficult for you.

    Mages - will use their ice barrier when they see you go into swift making all dmg to them about 1... so itll burn and waste your swift evasion before they mana burn you afterwards.

    Priest - if they're divine they'll just use their divine shield reducing attack by 80% for 20 seconds... more than long enough to last through your swift evasion. If theyre rebel they'll use their aoe party heal that will shield them as well... and i believe glacial has a shield at lvl 55... so its gonna suck fighting priest with dark build. I guess you're only real shot is if you can silence them with full 5 seconds from DN + orbs... but you've only got TS to get those blast orbs and the 8s cd on DN isn't reliable enough to stop those priest from casting.

    Vamps- 90% of the ones you see will be dark.. so that means massive spamage of debuffs to you from dark flame to dark bonds and feast. Charm strike will stun you as well if it hits you.. and atm I've noticed that when players use charm strike on me it bugs out.. they dont come to me.. they stay where theyre at on the screen but still do dmg and I can't hit them even though I know the skill brings them close to me. Dark bonds will immobilize you making you incapable of moving or casting... and then I'm sure youre aware of feast.. DoT + immobilization... so there goes your swift evasion.. they dont really have to fear your stealth since you cant do much out of it. The reason why so many vamps wnt to pop mana explosion or feast while a sin is in stealth is because of the edge build, the large chance for a crit + stun definetly scares them, most vamps dont have too much hp.. the highest i've seen stacking HP IIIs at 15.3k.

    Bards - you gotta watch it cause they can use their divine comedy on you which just puts you to sleep for 9 secs depending on talents and then heal themselves back up.

    Sins - well, you guys already know about sins xD
  • Lol_u_dead - EyrdaLol_u_dead - Eyrda Posts: 24 Arc User
    edited May 2011
    :( so i guess edge is better in those possible sitiuations? and are u also implying we will be easily countered in the 50-60s.......how u hitting someone with 400+ evasion do the have they passive evasion, evasion gems, speed boost and going into invisable also increase evasion pet skill can give evasion too lol man ur accraccy must be over9000. im beggining to have secound thoughts of darks sins. come on man wat u like about us. atleast wat are the pros i think ur dissing me >.>.(as if edge has no flaws..come on dont be bi-est i really want to hear sometin good.) :) ty oh and im guessin dark sin CC is our speed.
  • Sugarboy - EyrdaSugarboy - Eyrda Posts: 638 Arc User
    edited May 2011
    Sins - well, you guys already know about sins xD

    lol i cant believe you made me read out that entire post and then left out the most important class to me QQ......
    but yeah i have some strategies for beating Dark sins.....havent tried much cuz i havent dueled much of em but the plan atm is to run and gather orbs during the buff whether in stealth or not. My plan basically is not to stand there and tank em cuz i dont got 200+ eva yet so imma get pawned if i try that :P
  • Lol_u_dead - EyrdaLol_u_dead - Eyrda Posts: 24 Arc User
    edited May 2011
    lol i cant believe you made me read out that entire post and then left out the most important class to me QQ......
    but yeah i have some strategies for beating Dark sins.....havent tried much cuz i havent dueled much of em but the plan atm is to run and gather orbs during the buff whether in stealth or not. My plan basically is not to stand there and tank em cuz i dont got 200+ eva yet so imma get pawned if i try that :P

    lol i dun wanna know how to kill them just how to pwn with them...and u cant really run from a dark sin i mean u can but there really fast and im sure when u try to go invisable they will deadly chaser swiftevasion and contract of blood then use kindred race move ur fuccked.....
  • Abels - LionheartAbels - Lionheart Posts: 427 Arc User
    edited May 2011
    :( so i guess edge is better in those possible sitiuations? and are u also implying we will be easily countered in the 50-60s.......how u hitting someone with 400+ evasion do the have they passive evasion, evasion gems, speed boost and going into invisable also increase evasion pet skill can give evasion too lol man ur accraccy must be over9000. im beggining to have secound thoughts of darks sins. come on man wat u like about us. atleast wat are the pros i think ur dissing me >.>.(as if edge has no flaws..come on dont be bi-est i really want to hear sometin good.) :) ty oh and im guessin dark sin CC is our speed.

    Nah my acc is only about 315 but i still hit about 50% of the time when they pop Swift.

    Personally I didn't like the benifits given to me from dark tree. I loved how Assassinate was spamable at 98 mp for a good solid base attack it was great. But the problem was that it didn't generate orbs. I thought about applying points into Venom/Edge to offset and get +30% base atk +30% to gen blast/agony orbs but the amounts of points invested in that would strip me of the 55+ skills in the dark tree.

    The speed for sins is great in dark tree but you need to remember that while fleeing alot of the other classes have CC moves as well. if you're in stealth then they dont know where you are but they can just get on their mount and ride off.. We all have tried to used pitch lol and all have failed with it too when its most needed. As a dark sin you wont have the stuns needed or the DoT that can still dmg and sometimes kill them while theyre running from you. I suppose if you did stack points into persitant chase and then shadow snare that would help with the 2 sec stun at 15m if someones running from you. But you need to keep in mind that melee attack doesn't always initiate in the game due to lag. If youre chasing after someone and attack them they can get several meters away from you while youre still doing your animation.. then youre just kinda SoL.

    Best chance of winning with a shadow sin is to get the opponent drawn into thinking they can win the fight. Make them want to stay and fight you. Then thats when you have your advantage. you can use the DoT from NT on full orbs i ws doing about 789 per tick DoT with hit. Or you can go with the silence effect from DN. Just depends on the situation and what you need to do. You could get away with spamming ToP/TS/Assassinate in the start to build up your orbs then you can pop DN for silence and then repeat. Personally as a Dark sin I would use NT before I used Swift so that it would add into the total dmg output. No point in having them silenced while you got a major boost in your evasion. Remember while you have them silenced they can still move, pot, and normal attack. The only thing they can't do while silenced is use skills and thats only momentarly.

    Weakness of Stealth.... I strongly advise not putting 5 points into your first talent to lower the cd time of stealth.. you dont really need it that low.. at most only put one point into it.. at 30s cd and 30s effect time you can almost always be perma stealth if you wanted to be. Put the points into ghost shadow instead that way it'll work when youre in stealth or shadow pro. Stealth is great but can only be cast when were out of combat which, after the first strike.. isnt going to happen anytime soon. also remember that the cd's on swift evasion, contract of blood, and VK arent fast you have to use them carefully in combination with your other skills so that you arent stuck in a situation where all your moves are waiting on cooldown.

    Just like any other builds and classes a toon is only as good as the player that plays it. I roll edge cause I like the crits and stuns. I have good enough gear to do good damage and high enough evasion that I dont need the swift evasion skill for people to miss on me. I've also had countless duels with all different classes of all different levels. So I've found the strengths and weaknesses of the Edge build and of most sins in general.


    @ Sugarboy

    if you ever have to face off against a dark sin that pops Swift and you wanna get away. Just pop your shadow pro followed by hypno, if you miss hypno its no big deal chances are hell go into stealth too cause no sin ever wants to get hit by another sin out of stealth cause its embarassing >.> but the stealth from shadow pro should give you enough time to get away from him.
  • Lol_u_dead - EyrdaLol_u_dead - Eyrda Posts: 24 Arc User
    edited May 2011
    but in order to stun dont u got to rely on crit with thust of pain and guoge i mean really wat are the chances 15% crit hit with these certain moves at the right time well i forgot gouge crit do increase but still how effective is edge stun lock. so i mean ur pking trying to kill some thats running is the stun really that reliable...?(lol not including stealth crit).
  • Abels - LionheartAbels - Lionheart Posts: 427 Arc User
    edited May 2011
    but in order to stun dont u got to rely on crit with thust of pain and guoge i mean really wat are the chances 15% crit hit with these certain moves at the right time well i forgot gouge crit do increase but still how effective is edge stun lock. so i mean ur pking trying to kill some thats running is the stun really that reliable...?(lol not including stealth crit).

    To stun you need to crit with Gouge or TS.

    15% base crit dmg +3% from pet skill +11%/16% from Gouge gives you a decent amount at about 29%/34% for a crit but you caculate in the dodge rate of opponent avg of 4% and youre sitting at 25%/30%. Still not that bad about one out of 3. Most of the time though I'll crit more an what the numbers show.

    But with edge sin its not even about the stuns as much as the dmg output that you get from it.

    Normally the Cirtical Dmg is enough to kill them vs the Stun/Silence effects.

    When pking youll be in stealth so thats +40% more crit rate as well +increased evasion and attack. my first hits avg 3k-5k on crit and 2k non crit so thats a solid chunk out of someones life with the first move. Redhand I've hit 10.5k cirt off first hit of gouge. Its not too hard to kill ppl when you crit alot.
  • Sugarboy - EyrdaSugarboy - Eyrda Posts: 638 Arc User
    edited May 2011
    my first hits avg 3k-5k on crit and 2k non crit so thats a solid chunk out of someones life with the first move. Redhand I've hit 10.5k cirt off first hit of gouge. Its not too hard to kill ppl when you crit alot.

    lol dude why did you go a pve server again??
  • Abels - LionheartAbels - Lionheart Posts: 427 Arc User
    edited May 2011
    lol dude why did you go a pve server again??

    GF :)

    ( o )( o ) > PvP xD

    started a sin on Eyrda lets see what i can do with him without putting in anything for CS on this one.

    Also today i hit 12.5k of Gouge with RH xD
  • Ashaw - EyrdaAshaw - Eyrda Posts: 1,127 Arc User
    edited May 2011
    You should make a guide like this but for mages :D
    Class Choosing Guide -
    fw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=188881

    Race Choosing Guide -
    fw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=193701

    They know I'm right -
    fw-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=3587381&postcount=43

    [SIGPIC]http://fc09.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2011/277/1/0/ashaw_siggy_1_by_zerojigoku-d4bsgdu.png[/SIGPIC]
    I dont play Ashaw anymore -_- its a boring class
  • Abels - LionheartAbels - Lionheart Posts: 427 Arc User
    edited May 2011
    You should make a guide like this but for mages :D

    I don't have a high level mage so making one would prove worthless. I don't think that someone that hasn't played that toon and tested it out on several other classes, mobs, bosses should really say too much about it since they really dont know what it does in game not just in the descriptions. I've seen that mages have intro to wind mage but not much else besides this build/that build threads. Perhaps you should invest sometime into it and post one up or go and bother a high lvl mage thats tested various builds and get them to make one... like these guys did to me xD
  • Sugarboy - EyrdaSugarboy - Eyrda Posts: 638 Arc User
    edited May 2011
    GF :)

    ( o )( o ) > PvP xD

    started a sin on Eyrda lets see what i can do with him without putting in anything for CS on this one.

    Also today i hit 12.5k of Gouge with RH xD

    no CS will be really hard man.....trust me i'm doing it now but you really hadda work them instances i guess.
    but for now imma jus push my wraith castle and bounty hunter for Friend of the Forest along with dailies til i get to a decent lvl that ppl wud want me for instances to make money....

    wonder how many non-CSer sins out there? What do u guys do to make money in-game??
  • kumagnakalb0kumagnakalb0 Posts: 143 Arc User
    edited May 2011
    no CS will be really hard man.....trust me i'm doing it now but you really hadda work them instances i guess.
    but for now imma jus push my wraith castle and bounty hunter for Friend of the Forest along with dailies til i get to a decent lvl that ppl wud want me for instances to make money....

    wonder how many non-CSer sins out there? What do u guys do to make money in-game??


    I go mostly at CB sugarman ^.~
  • cute16yogurlcute16yogurl Posts: 3 Arc User
    edited May 2011
    i have a question, does the 'physical attack accuracy' talent only apply to attacks that deal physical damage? or to all, and its just hidden?
  • BlackCat - EyrdaBlackCat - Eyrda Posts: 13 Arc User
    edited May 2011
    this is my suggestion here as a dark sin :)


    Nah my acc is only about 315 but i still hit about 50% of the time when they pop Swift.
    you have to test it on same lvl gear sin , not on **** gear sin, with same lvl gear i am grantee that you will miss about 90% of yoru hit.


    The speed for sins is great in dark tree but you need to remember that while fleeing alot of the other classes have CC moves as well.
    sin speed buff give us immunity to root/freeze/slow/ensnare effects which is unique with other classes speed buff. you 14 sec Shadow of gale x 2 times with freedom of wind = 28 sec immunity. anyway range class will run and kite you and if you are not a dark sin you will get root freez ensnare and get **** along with your long shadow protection cooldown

    If youre chasing after someone and attack them they can get several meters away from you while youre still doing your animation.. then youre just kinda SoL.
    dark sin talent has a passive effect on deadly chaser which will stun target for 2 sec.


    Best chance of winning with a shadow sin is to get the opponent drawn into thinking they can win the fight. Make them want to stay and fight you.
    dark sin is not for duel but for pvp and mass pvp. dark sin need to go stealth to get his full potential power from skills and talent.
    eg. 30% skill effect on vicious intention skill and swift evasion, 18 evasion 36 acc boost everytime we stealth or get speed buff, remove all Dots effect when we go stealth etc.


    Weakness of Stealth.... I strongly advise not putting 5 points into your first talent to lower the cd time of stealth.. you dont really need it that low..
    very short cooldown, we can unstealth and stealth whenever we want during pvp. 50% evasion boost in stealth meaning stoneman/mage will miss when they try to unstealth you using their AOE.
    and other advantages


    Just like any other builds and classes a toon is only as good as the player that plays it. I roll edge cause I like the crits and stuns. I have good enough gear to do good damage and high enough evasion that I dont need the swift evasion skill for people to miss on me. I've also had countless duels with all different classes of all different levels. So I've found the strengths and weaknesses of the Edge build and of most sins in general.

    indeed, note that duel and open pvp is totally different


    if you ever have to face off against a dark sin that pops Swift and you wanna get away. Just pop your shadow pro followed by hypno, if you miss hypno.
    a good dark sin will never use SE on early stage and when fighting with a sin, he will use DChaser after he pop SE which you panic and screwed up cause you can't run and can't go stealth
  • Sugarboy - EyrdaSugarboy - Eyrda Posts: 638 Arc User
    edited May 2011
    i have no doubt in my mind that a shadow/dark sin can easily defeat a venom or edge sin easily (equally geared of course) as long as they have that SE buff up.

    i just wish that more Dark n Venom sins would post their pvp experiences or videos VS other classes in the game so we can have a general idea of the pvp capabilities of each tree for assassins and their strategies for defeating w/e class they may face. I believe that all of the trees are designed for pvp whether its for killing quickly, control of the opponent or survivability. Abels is an Edge sin so most of his experiences will be a little biased towards edge's play-style. Not saying that he isnt knowledgeable about the other trees but i'm just saying that more input from high lvl Dark n Venom would be greatly appreciated in this guide.


    PS- thanks for the info BlackCat, now i know that i cant even run away from a good Dark sin :p now my options are even more limited lol
  • kumagnakalb0kumagnakalb0 Posts: 143 Arc User
    edited May 2011
    actually, i am considering shadow build because of GVG combat... On that build, i guess sins have higher chance of surviving when in shadow build... especially in massive battle... well, just my opinion... I am still in the edge build for the meantime and during pvp, i guess i have no problem initiating one...
  • Teach - Storm LegionTeach - Storm Legion Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2011
    I saw someone post a couple sentences about this a while ago in some section of the forum, but cant find it anymore. Is there any tips on how to deal with the Protectors HP regen thing (Rocky Protection i think its called)?

    I was pvping against a lvl 59 protector yesterday and had him almost dead with me about at 40% HP. He just popped his HP thing and bam, full HP. Is there anyway to counter it?
    Maybe silencing him when his HP gets low? What do you guys think?
  • Avici - EyrdaAvici - Eyrda Posts: 71 Arc User
    edited May 2011
    I saw someone post a couple sentences about this a while ago in some section of the forum, but cant find it anymore. Is there any tips on how to deal with the Protectors HP regen thing (Rocky Protection i think its called)?

    I was pvping against a lvl 59 protector yesterday and had him almost dead with me about at 40% HP. He just popped his HP thing and bam, full HP. Is there anyway to counter it?
    Maybe silencing him when his HP gets low? What do you guys think?

    just shadow protection lol
  • BlackCat - EyrdaBlackCat - Eyrda Posts: 13 Arc User
    edited May 2011
    I saw someone post a couple sentences about this a while ago in some section of the forum, but cant find it anymore. Is there any tips on how to deal with the Protectors HP regen thing (Rocky Protection i think its called)?

    I was pvping against a lvl 59 protector yesterday and had him almost dead with me about at 40% HP. He just popped his HP thing and bam, full HP. Is there anyway to counter it?
    Maybe silencing him when his HP gets low? What do you guys think?

    shadow prot yes then sleep , get redhand and **** :cool:
    or
    run away wait for rocky effect ware off , pop swift evas **** for 14 sec
    note that duel and open pvp is different if he use rocky and heal, you can use pots and heal yourself also
    or
    if all are on CDs just run away lol
    PS: i recommend to just stay away from them if they are on rocky mode :P
  • Lol_u_dead - EyrdaLol_u_dead - Eyrda Posts: 24 Arc User
    edited May 2011
    hey blackcat wat are ur experiences with edge build ur lvl.do they pwn u everytime with stun lock or do u defeat edge sins easily with noproblem due to ur evasion or is it completly balance....i really like shadow sins and i dont understand why ppl dont admire our tree talent.
    ive dueled many edge sins and beat them having little to no problem but for somereason im being convinced that i should go edge build. is it for the stunluck.......plz help me come back to the dark side :)
  • Abels - LionheartAbels - Lionheart Posts: 427 Arc User
    edited May 2011
    shadow prot yes then sleep , get redhand and **** :cool:
    or
    run away wait for rocky effect ware off , pop swift evas **** for 14 sec
    note that duel and open pvp is different if he use rocky and heal, you can use pots and heal yourself also
    or
    if all are on CDs just run away lol
    PS: i recommend to just stay away from them if they are on rocky mode :P

    Bored me toying with vamp and prots

    sometimes trying to get full buffs up before attacking just to see dmg.

    boring boring but most of it is vs vamp and prot for you guys.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_mKpi7c9A58
  • Lol_u_dead - EyrdaLol_u_dead - Eyrda Posts: 24 Arc User
    edited May 2011
    well im starting think there only effective only 1v1 and is stun lock still effective after the slight nurf for th edge sins? now yes your are very good in 1v1 now i wanna see some edge in group pvp do u think u got wat it takes XD? well still like the vidoes. darks sins got buffed ftw:).( lol i took 3 ppl on in pk and manage to survive thx to swift evasion)
  • snowboarder0021snowboarder0021 Posts: 2 Arc User
    edited May 2011
    well im starting think there only effective only 1v1 and is stun lock still effective after the slight nurf for th edge sins? now yes your are very good in 1v1 now i wanna see some edge in group pvp do u think u got wat it takes XD? well still like the vidoes. darks sins got buffed ftw:).( lol i took 3 ppl on in pk and manage to survive thx to swift evasion)

    well see after arena i gotta try to fraps to see how that goes. No one will guild war us :( so no gvg fraps from me.
  • milonix187milonix187 Posts: 7 Arc User
    edited May 2011
    So.. i am going with edge sin for now to see how i like it.. i am going with this

    http://fw.perfectworld.com/talentcalc?cls=assassin&r=kin&b=t2a25b13b34c14c24c33d43e12e23f23f33g13g23h12h22h32j13j22t3a25b12

    and my question is when should i start putting point into the dark talent?
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