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Abridged description of Marksman trees

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  • nikkirb4nikkirb4 Posts: 2 Arc User
    edited May 2011
    I only do PvE and am trying to build a good MM. What Tree or talents should I focus on? Any ideas or help would be appreciated.
  • Patty_ - EyrdaPatty_ - Eyrda Posts: 757 Arc User
    edited May 2011
    Go burst, it is most wanted MM in groups. Good for pve. More read here, great description with examples: http://fw-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=2074691&postcount=1
  • Tsukiyo - Storm LegionTsukiyo - Storm Legion Posts: 398 Arc User
    edited May 2011
    Hybrid multipurpose MM added

    Burst + precision
  • akihanaakihana Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited May 2011
    At end game (after 50-55) precision is better for party /bosses ,soul is better at 55 and beats burst in all aspects at 60 (soon 60+),also soul the best for pvp so if u want to have a all around char choose soul mm but only after lvl 55:).Burst is great and its the best build till lvl 50-55 after that it becomes obsolete and significantly weaker then the other 2 thou its also true that u can do instances or pvp with all the builds but not with the same result . Btw patty most of the party's want precision mm's not burst type cause of the obvious reasons(and if the party wants aoe they get mage is way better)
  • MicroBlaster - Storm LegionMicroBlaster - Storm Legion Posts: 35 Arc User
    edited May 2011
    akihana wrote: »
    At end game (after 50-55) precision is better for party /bosses ,soul is better at 55 and beats burst in all aspects at 60 (soon 60+),also soul the best for pvp so if u want to have a all around char choose soul mm but only after lvl 55:).Burst is great and its the best build till lvl 50-55 after that it becomes obsolete and significantly weaker then the other 2 thou its also true that u can do instances or pvp with all the builds but not with the same result . Btw patty most of the party's want precision mm's not burst type cause of the obvious reasons(and if the party wants aoe they get mage is way better)

    I have yet to see any squad search for anything but a burst marksman. In all instances, (except perhaps Welkin) burst is superior. While boss DPS is important, AoE DPS is perhaps more important due to the large numbers of lesser monsters present in instances.
  • Kalza - Storm LegionKalza - Storm Legion Posts: 368 Arc User
    edited May 2011
    Precision: This tree is all about (party) DPS, you have a 5 second mind flaying bullet and 2 defense debuffs, and an attack aura to buff the entire party. Later on its economical with MP regeneration and a fire of will which costs nearly nothing during soul catching. This is the earth tree, and sadly to say, majority of MM earth skills are bad or their main use is not damage. This makes earth mastery training have a slight disadvantage compared to fire where all fire skills are used in PvP. In GvG precisions role is mainly picking off specific targets. Their defense debuffs work wonders in making squishies more squishy and they have the highest DPS of MM so they can get what they need killed fastest. This tree is true to the traditional physical ranged class, worst survivability but great at DPS. 5 second mind flaying bullet is beast, i cannot say this enough, swift soul trap is the best talent in the precision tree. You want to spec attack attack attack! Getting hit usually means game over for you anyways so your best defense is to kill people before they get to you. 2nd gem to socket i would say would be evasion (cheaper) or HP.

    Soul: This tree is the suck. Do not use this before 55+, even then i might stress to wait till you have high attack power and crit rate to make maximum use of Soul's tree. This tree is all about crits. Crit stuns, crit damage increased, and crit rate increased, not only that, this tree boasts the greatest survivability of all marksman. A stronger bullet shield at 60, a heavy accuracy drop along with an extended period with weakening cloud, and a longer fast action, which also removes slow and snare. Soul is heavily dependent on high base attack and crits. By high base damage i'm talking about 2500+ base attack. This is the ultimate 1vs1 tree, in GvG it's not bad, it won't kill as fast as Precision unless your soul discharge and soul snipe are dealing damage equivalent to mind flaying bullet (need super high base attack). But you still boast the best weakening cloud for GvG so for 11 seconds they won't be able to hit your team. One thing to note is that soul will surpass Precision in DPS when equally geared with crit gear, Soul's moves do more damage and crits just make that fact amplified with higher crit damage, its just expensive to reach this point which is why precision is considered the DPS tree for now. Soul just boosts crits much more than precision and Also, this is the most MP expensive tree. You'll want to get crit and crit damage gems. after that is attack and HP.

    Burst: This tree is the most useful tree and has the most benefits all around. This has lead about 80% of all MMs to be burst while 19% are precision and 1% are the silly soul who trying to prove something this early in the game. In instances this is the MM people want, in war this is guy with the most kills in the rankings, in 1vs1 this is the MM that cries i'm AoE spec not 1vs1 spec. Also has lead to the common belief MM suck in 1vs1 which is entirely untrue, its just burst does the worst compared to soul and precision. To be effective in this tree, usually you must spec HP and defense to reduce your squishiness to be effective in instances or you just end up dying doing your job. its MP expensive in the beginning but once you hit 54 your MP consumption is moderated, with the use of MP regen food you barely have a need for pots in instances. For gems use HP and attack, HP being first so you can take more hits. Afterwards, you can opt for defense for more bulkiness, evasion for pseudo-bulkiness, or other offensive gems (crit rate/damage gems).


    Cookie cutter builds:

    *A note for all precision builds, please put 3 points into weakpoint then 2 points solid shot then 5 points into swift soul trap*

    PvE Precision

    This build is pure PvE, for those who have no plans to ever PvP. your job is basically to debuff and DD as hard as you can

    Economical Precision

    This build focuses on PvP but saves resources with MP regneration.

    PvP Precision

    As much as MP regeneration is nice, it's not helping pvp wise. This build focuses purely on maximizing any PvP potential in the precision tree.

    Soul

    Soul really doesn't have multiple ways to do, just end game PvP. Burst of rage is a soul bullet killer so you will want to have a good way to make soul bullets with quick reloading. This also assumes building 45+ to put 2 points into soul discharge right away. Last thing to note is the next talent to get in this build is up to up, its either the soul detonation to make crits of soul snipe stun 90% of the time, or crack shot mastery to make crits do more damage.

    Burst

    This build focuses on AoE DPS. It does mean you will have better AoE output in wars too. and with red hand that means faster deaths without the use of back up fire. This is the only way to burst. You can drop burst of rage if you never do 1vs1 and get a 3rd point in efficient penetration. No other talents in burst are useful. Soul burn is negligible and flammable's interrupt does not work in PvP~ :|


    Hybrids:

    I find Hybrid builds just gimping yourself in one way or another. Not only do you miss out on your level talents, you are just two low level talents combined. it can work for PvE, combining single target DPS with AoE DD (won't be DPS without being pure burst) but i guess if you want to have part of both worlds go ahead, and try to make it work. but my advice is to stay true to one tree and get all the benefits of late game talents. AoE isn't good until your level 48, single target DPS can be just done with swift soul trap... but you will miss out on MP reduction/regeneration so its very MP expensive.

    There are some points you can invest into.. Such as, burst may want to invest into art of reloading for faster back up fire. But I will tell you from experience, in mass pvp, 1 minute and 30 seconds is plenty of time for a cooldown to end. Back up fire should wipe the other team, which means they will regroup, which takes at least a minute. Its only 5 points however you will be 5 levels behind on the tree, you may want to think about it 68+ or so when you've reached the bottom row of burst at least.

    Precision may want to get absorption for a stronger MFB, it'll be a great improvement to your DPS.. I'm not too sure about precision's end game talents but you can probably do it at 60+ after you finish the 55 talent row.

    I really think investing into other trees will be beneficial end game but while trying to reach the bottom of the tree, i would stay pure until you've reached the last talent in the tree you are in.

    Hybrid Burst/Precision


    This build focuses on DPS and AoE at the same time. Now you might ask, how does this make your DPS really good? Simple to say that rake of fury is the highest DPS move out of Aim Shot, Soul Discharge, and Rake of Fury for it has a 2 second cooldown, a 1 second cast, the 2nd highest bonus damage out of the 3, and its 2ndary effect is MORE significant damage. To further its DPS potential, fire mastery buffs its damage AND 2ndary effect, and we all know MM have better damaging fire skills than earth.

    Now this build also aoes, but compared to a pure burst? The only thing a pure burst MM gets is less need for MP pots and a stronger penetration shot by (at my current point) 300-400 damage. Now I will say this now, I am willing to trade 300-400 damage on an aoe i don't even like to spam that much for a much better single target DPS to not only kill bosses faster to even 1vs1 pvp better. And now unlike precision who have no survivability buffs, i have speed of fire >:D

    But about about pure precision? Well, pure precision does have more party DPS with a +130-150ish (soul bullets) attack buff and another -100 defense debuff BUT precision does NOT have a good DPS move as aim shot takes too long to cast for the damage it gives, many end up preferring to use SOUL SNIPE. So this is sort of the middle ground for Party DPS and Solo DPS as well as Solo PvE with both good single target and AoE ability!

    What about Precision + Soul? I didn't think about this because i want to AoE, but my first thought is that all of soul's end game talents are what define soul, you can't afford to hybrid with Soul unless you don't mind ending at the +3% crit rate in crack shot time.

    What's the downfall of all this? Lets just say you need to start carrying 1.5x the amount of MP pots as a pure burst MM needs.

    I can also say for further speculation is that extended burning is more pve oriented. While DOT is indeed HANDY TO HAVE! Its handy for killing FAST! not over 10/16 seconds.
    tl%20dr.jpg?__SQUARESPACE_CACHEVERSION=1274214879433
    Soul is pretty scary on CN servers.
    Less Visa, More Skill, EZ
    fw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?p=2778121
  • Kiiyoshi - NyosKiiyoshi - Nyos Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2011
    Thanks alot for this post. I'm only level 16, but it's helped me as I will soon be reaching 20, and I can now plan out which path I will take.

    <3 to all <3
  • SLUrPEE - EyrdaSLUrPEE - Eyrda Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited May 2011
    Precission is best
  • TheSprite - LionheartTheSprite - Lionheart Posts: 203 Arc User
    edited May 2011
    Honestly, there is no "Best" build. I've gone from a purely single target DPS build to a mostly AOE build, and I've quite enjoyed both and find both benefits and disadvantages to both. I also have a friend who plays a pure precision marksman with a spec in Earth Talents, so I would say it just depends on your preference and playstyle. Just choose what works out best for you and play around with it.
  • Wish - Storm LegionWish - Storm Legion Posts: 15 Arc User
    edited May 2011
    Well Tsukiyo got banned so don't expect more.

    Even more so his laptop broke and he can't afford a new one. So guess you guys need a New guild writer.
  • Wish - Storm LegionWish - Storm Legion Posts: 15 Arc User
    edited May 2011
    Justice Bump :|

    stop making nub threads without reading this one -_- is it THAT hard to SCROLL DOWN the first page of a board...?
  • Fletcherrenn - IllyfueFletcherrenn - Illyfue Posts: 17 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    dont know if someone has already mentioned this, but flame profession comes up with 5 points out of a possible of four

    jus wondering if this is just my computer, a glitch or its supposed to go somewhere else??

    Again sorry if its already been mentioned some of the posts are really long and I havent read them all
  • Axym - LionheartAxym - Lionheart Posts: 1,484 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    One bump for Science!!! <33 And mm's too
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    As long as I'm captain, the rum shall never be gone.
    tinyurl.com/FWEmotes courtesy of Deltatroopa
  • Ashaw - EyrdaAshaw - Eyrda Posts: 1,127 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    Justice Bump :|

    stop making nub threads without reading this one -_- is it THAT hard to SCROLL DOWN the first page of a board...?

    http://fw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=188881
    my guide will help anyone that wants to be a MM find it hopefully
    but yeah i think its stupid how some people do that but its life and it will happen
    Class Choosing Guide -
    fw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=188881

    Race Choosing Guide -
    fw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=193701

    They know I'm right -
    fw-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=3587381&postcount=43

    [SIGPIC]http://fc09.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2011/277/1/0/ashaw_siggy_1_by_zerojigoku-d4bsgdu.png[/SIGPIC]
    I dont play Ashaw anymore -_- its a boring class
  • Axym - LionheartAxym - Lionheart Posts: 1,484 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    /bump.... I wish there was a "I want this thread stickied" ticket/pm or whatever....
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    As long as I'm captain, the rum shall never be gone.
    tinyurl.com/FWEmotes courtesy of Deltatroopa
  • Rockbridge - Storm LegionRockbridge - Storm Legion Posts: 502 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    Bump for sticky cause this guide and Tsukiyo are the ****.
    <Honey Badger>
    Cause I don't care.
  • Tsukiyo - Storm LegionTsukiyo - Storm Legion Posts: 398 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    I added an update to the first post with a 60+ analysis i made up in another thread.
  • akrulesakrules Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    can someone explain to me what exactly the "Dwarfs Luck" talent does? the wording confuses me
  • Tsukiyo - Storm LegionTsukiyo - Storm Legion Posts: 398 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    dwarf's luck should... Basically make soul snipe a 60% stun.. 100% crit stun.. Exo bullet is a 60% disarm rate and w/e+10% purge rate...

    I think thats it...

    Somewhat worth it...
  • eggmonjreggmonjr Posts: 5 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    thanks for the wonderful guide, could i ask for the hybrid precision/burst skill tree, till which skill should i develop for precision? should i develop precision tree all the way and put points into ROF?
  • Tsukiyo - Storm LegionTsukiyo - Storm Legion Posts: 398 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    Once you have achieved 10 points in precision and 29 in burst, you have a choice... You either go down precision more (Aim shot means better PvE), Soul (Stronger MFB, and stronger evasion debuff and acc buff [important]), or more down burst (cheaper MP skills, very economical)

    So in a short note:

    Precision = PvE
    Soul = PvP
    Burst = Money saver

    On a side note.. I see burst soul becoming viable end game at late 70s when you can access soul extraction and have a 6 second soul discharge. I'm just so sad you can only get 1 point in soul concentration.. that would be so amazing to have 4 points in that and still be able to aoe every 2 seconds ;_;


    On another side note... I was messing around with a soul/burst build... i abandoned DPS in my mind and just sought out after massive aoe and single target burst... and this was my result:

    http://fw.perfectworld.com/talentcalc?cls=marksman&r=dwf&b=t2a15a25b13c24d23e13e21e33f13f22g23h22t3a25b21b35c24d14d23e22

    What do you think of that 80 build? Of course, will only work at level 80 too.. But it just looks soooooooo sexy!
  • ritehandkidritehandkid Posts: 8 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    Perfectly written, even as a beginner in the "Dwarf-Scene" I understood everything and well the way you have presented the different trees makes sense to me. Well done!
    Simply ritehandman.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • akrulesakrules Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2011
  • Spellweaver - EyrdaSpellweaver - Eyrda Posts: 366 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    bump bump bumpty bump bump :D
  • Axym - LionheartAxym - Lionheart Posts: 1,484 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    bump for the love of science!
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    As long as I'm captain, the rum shall never be gone.
    tinyurl.com/FWEmotes courtesy of Deltatroopa
  • mogrmogr Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    I want soul/burst hybrid and wanna know if flammable is good for arena which im only interested in. Thank-you for reply in advance.
  • Tsukiyo - Storm LegionTsukiyo - Storm Legion Posts: 398 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    flammable is highly situational and usually a 1 time use in arena. Annoying to if you do get interupted but its a 5 minute cooldown :| and you might not interupt someone in the end..

    Its gettable over a 2 second penetrating shot but i hate relying on long cooldown moves
  • Eyrios - LionheartEyrios - Lionheart Posts: 5 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    i have a quick question concerning the talent "Professional Hunter" in the soul tree. is it worth getting the extra 9 range on hunter's mark or should i just opt for the extra accuracy?
  • Tsukiyo - Storm LegionTsukiyo - Storm Legion Posts: 398 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    There is a niche to having a 27 range hunter's mark. At level 55, when extreme sniping's range under crack shot mode reaches 27 range as well, allowing you to do a hunter's mark > extreme snipe combo. Its pretty decent as it allows you to hang out REALLY FAR BACK in group fights, however its only a niche as you have to move up afterwards unless your target walked up towards you into your 22 range. However professional hunter reduces evasion by 5 per talent i believe right? So its essentially the acc buff but better. Hunter's mark should be on whoever you have targeted as is as if acc is making a difference, its in your evasion debuff.
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