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Malvanum Grind Excessively Tedious.

So, 4 gears per alert, with 200-300 gear costs for the costume pieces. Am I supposed to be running this long-**** alert 50 times to get one prize?

Makes me want to not bother at all.
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  • themightyzeniththemightyzenith Posts: 4,599 Arc User
    edited August 2018
    You get many more gears from the race. The daily alone is 30 gears IIRC. Much quicker also.
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  • vonqballvonqball Posts: 923 Arc User
    Yeah, guess I should bite the bullet. I was trying to avoid the whole race thing. Literally jumping through hoops for my treats is just a bit too close to the reality. I also feel like it would be a challenge to devise a more pathetic racing mini-game.
  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,450 Arc User
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Posts: 4,915 Arc User
    AHAHAHAAHAAHAHAHAAHA

    This is actually one of the best race-themed minigames I've seen. Also since you seem to be one of those people who has not yet mastered it:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zcDR3glIrws
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  • vonqballvonqball Posts: 923 Arc User
    Wow, you are really easily amused. I bet you've "mastered" watching paint dry as well. The pride you clearly feel is the funniest part to me.

  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,450 Arc User
    vonqball wrote: »
    Wow, you are really easily amused.

    He said, while playing video games...​​
  • chaosdrgnz43chaosdrgnz43 Posts: 1,674 Arc User
    Grinding is in every MMO. You'll get used to it....or burn out. One or the other.
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  • jaazaniah1jaazaniah1 Posts: 5,425 Arc User
    I wouldn't mind the race so much if it actually fit the genre. The tie-in to anything about superheroes is weak. I mean, what do we learn about Malvanum designs on earth, or whatever, after we turn in the trinket? Would be better if it were described as a charity event to raise funds for Mercy Hospital.
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  • flyingfinnflyingfinn Posts: 8,408 Arc User
    But remember also that Forum Malvanum has some kickass Shield drops.
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  • servantrulesservantrules Posts: 312 Arc User
    The race is actually amusing as a change of pace. And it's only a couple of minutes for each round, so it doesn't drag too long as with some other games out there. On the other hand, Forum Malvanum arenas take too long, mostly because of the unskippable monologue.
  • jaazaniah1jaazaniah1 Posts: 5,425 Arc User
    Yet, FM feels more like what superheroes might actually do. CM is just goofy and without much thought put into it to make it feel like part of the genre.
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  • themightyzeniththemightyzenith Posts: 4,599 Arc User
    edited August 2018
    jaazaniah1 wrote: »
    ...... is just goofy and without much thought put into it to make it feel like part of the genre.

    That pretty much sums up how they implemented vehicles in CO, as a whole..... SWTOR vehicle mounts.


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  • ealford1985ealford1985 Posts: 3,582 Arc User
    I’m horrible at the races. Half the time I just click and follow someone who I know is going to finish.

    And even still I run into walls. I have issues with straight line shots. I lose 80% of the time at the last ring or two.

    I don’t like this event at all.
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Posts: 4,915 Arc User
    The original Malvanum event had a story reason for it. Basically, it's Tateklys messing with us. He wanted us to prove we had what it took to fight in his arena by... literally jumping through hoops.
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  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Posts: 4,915 Arc User
    I’m horrible at the races. Half the time I just click and follow someone who I know is going to finish.

    And even still I run into walls. I have issues with straight line shots. I lose 80% of the time at the last ring or two.

    I don’t like this event at all.
    That was kinda why I made this video:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zcDR3glIrws
    so that people who were struggling with it could "git gud" and learn to complete the event on their own.
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  • nbkxsnbkxs Posts: 766 Arc User
    Why didn't you ever hit your boost the whole race?
    [NbK]XStorm
  • morigosamorigosa Posts: 709 Arc User
    Just as a note here, bikes are the worst vehicle to do the race with. They're the fast, sure, so you'll get a high score with one... but score doesn't matter, and you still have to wait for the timer after going through the finish line. What does matter is precision movement; a tank or chariot type vehicle will do better at that.

    But the best option is the jet pack or jet boots flight power at rank three. Fast enough to finish with time to spare, with full maneuverability. (Why those two? Because they're faster than regular flight powers. And jet pack is my go-to flight power anyway; it's theme-neutral and has good in-combat speed.)
  • aesicaaesica Posts: 2,537 Arc User
    I’m horrible at the races. Half the time I just click and follow someone who I know is going to finish.

    And even still I run into walls. I have issues with straight line shots. I lose 80% of the time at the last ring or two.

    I don’t like this event at all.
    You're not alone. I literally ignore this event every time it comes around because "where in the actual **** is the track" isn't really my idea of a well-made race. Maybe one day, our devs will look at STO's various implementations of this race-through-hoops mechanic and give CM a tune-up.
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  • vonqballvonqball Posts: 923 Arc User
    I've run the race before and gotten decent placement... but memorizing a track isn't really enough game for me to sink my teeth into. I mean, grinding even fun content gets old... but this race just seems like it was shoehorned in to sell vehicles. No damaging obstacles, no power-ups, nothing but hoops on a map. They didn't even bother to make an actual track with cheering alien fans... just suck some hoops in the air.

    Glad you guys like it... but I'm just not seeing what it is that you see.
  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,450 Arc User
    edited August 2018
    vonqball wrote: »
    Glad you guys like it... but I'm just not seeing what it is that you see.

    Some people like it, some people don't, just like everything else in the universe. Doesn't mean it needs to change.​​
  • beezeezebeezeeze Posts: 927 Arc User
    I think the Night Hawk event is the worst but This One isn't a lot better. Neither (so far...) have had any rewards that I have been all that crazy about, but maybe someday that will change.

  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Posts: 4,915 Arc User
    nbkxs wrote: »
    Why didn't you ever hit your boost the whole race?
    Well, I tend to go easy on it because a high score is little more than bragging rights. That and the point of the video was showing the course layout, so I wanted to get as clean a run as possible... yes I know I got stuck on things more than once. I made it over a year ago. I usually do boost a bit on the long straights.
    aesica wrote: »
    I’m horrible at the races. Half the time I just click and follow someone who I know is going to finish.

    And even still I run into walls. I have issues with straight line shots. I lose 80% of the time at the last ring or two.

    I don’t like this event at all.
    You're not alone. I literally ignore this event every time it comes around because "where in the actual **** is the track" isn't really my idea of a well-made race. Maybe one day, our devs will look at STO's various implementations of this race-through-hoops mechanic and give CM a tune-up.
    I can think of 5 things you might be talking about... none of which I consider superior.

    1: PvE ice race: memorize the course or you'll fail. The first year I did it I was barely able to finish the race. Now I can practically do it in my sleep.

    2: PvP Ice race, has no checkpoints whatsoever. which turned out to be hilariously exploitable. Also memorize the course or you'll go out of bounds accidentally and get a DQ.

    3: Flying high: no fail mechanic other than "you didn't do it fast enough" which is actually rather generous. doesn't really take any skill since you're literally racing a timer and nothing else. Also you're following a ribbon that marks the course.

    4: surfboard race: this has several annoying wrinkles, most notably the ramps. But also there's the possibility of getting a DQ because you messed up a turn.

    5: biathlon: first part is the same as the surfboard race, second is similar to flying High, except with no ribbon, also the transition from surfing to flying is irritating because you can get a DQ for changing too soon. honestly the flying part is much the same as the red course in CM but the rings are a lot closer together.

    The biggest thing for me is the fail mechanic. In CM you fail if the buff you get for going through a ring expires. Each time you go through a ring it refreshes the buff. In the ice running and surfing it's leaving the course... which is super fickle.
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  • aesicaaesica Posts: 2,537 Arc User
    1: PvE ice race: memorize the course or you'll fail. The first year I did it I was barely able to finish the race. Now I can practically do it in my sleep.

    2: PvP Ice race, has no checkpoints whatsoever. which turned out to be hilariously exploitable. Also memorize the course or you'll go out of bounds accidentally and get a DQ.
    It's less about memorizing the tracks and more about getting used to the low-friction mechanic. If you see a right turn coming up, you learn to take that right turn early. Or exploit the fact that jump/roll brings you to a complete stop if you land without pressing in any direction and have autorun off.

    You see the track, and skill comes from being good at timing your turns early enough to maximize your movement and minimize slip recovery. So yes, both of these are better than CM in that regard. Plus, they're both actual races--granted, you have to really mess up to let the NPC pass you on the PvE track.
    3: Flying high: no fail mechanic other than "you didn't do it fast enough" which is actually rather generous. doesn't really take any skill since you're literally racing a timer and nothing else. Also you're following a ribbon that marks the course.
    A ribbon marking the course is what makes Flying High superior in terms of being a proper racetrack. I mean, most of the time, you're supposed to know where the racetrack is, not guessing if the next hoop is behind some **** building as you squint to find the absurdly faint and sparse dots.

    I won't argue about the fail mechanic because that's just a matter of personal opinion (I find it more relaxing, even if it is boring) however what's nice about it is that you can get right back in and try again if you do fail (probably because you went afk and forgot). In CM, you have to sit and wait if you screw up, which is...irritating, to say the least.
    4: surfboard race: this has several annoying wrinkles, most notably the ramps. But also there's the possibility of getting a DQ because you messed up a turn.
    The ramps actually make it kind of fun. That said, it's easier to DQ by accident in CM than it is in the surfboard race.

    (I won't comment on Biathlon because I've literally never done it. I keep meaning to, but I keep missing the start time and now I have to wait until next year.)
    The biggest thing for me is the fail mechanic. In CM you fail if the buff you get for going through a ring expires. Each time you go through a ring it refreshes the buff. In the ice running and surfing it's leaving the course... which is super fickle.
    Honestly, I never had a problem with leaving the course on those. With ice racing especially, it seems pretty generous actually. I've had several "oh my god oh my god I went out!" moments, only to realize that I haven't been disqualified. Every time I have been disqualified:

    1) It's hard to argue why. I either ran too far up a hill, or hopelessly too far onto the frozen lake.

    2) You can go right back to the NPC and try again without having to sit and stare at an event timer. And that right there is the big one for me.
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  • nbkxsnbkxs Posts: 766 Arc User
    I concur on the timers, even when you're jumping between zones, there's a good 5-6+ minute wait between the races starting that I find pretty irritating. I'm not sure why the reset timer is so long. It could be halved, and it would still probably be too long.
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  • jaazaniah1jaazaniah1 Posts: 5,425 Arc User
    edited August 2018
    I remember that, but it makes no sense. How does racing well in any way suggest a hero can fight well? Poor plot.
    The original Malvanum event had a story reason for it. Basically, it's Tateklys messing with us. He wanted us to prove we had what it took to fight in his arena by... literally jumping through hoops.

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  • darqaura2darqaura2 Posts: 932 Arc User
    Maybe after they are done with the frameworks review, they can do an events review? Some of them do need some touchup.
  • roughbearmattachroughbearmattach Posts: 4,784 Arc User
    Millennium flight, cape glide, and rank 3 teleport are also fast enough to complete the races, though R3 Teleport is just barely fast enough for the red race.
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  • ealford1985ealford1985 Posts: 3,582 Arc User
    ****....cape glide is hard as hell to use.
  • lezard21lezard21 Posts: 1,510 Arc User
    My main issue with the race is how latency can **** you up real good when going through a hoop and CO doesn't exactly have top notch servers.

    IMO, instead of a 10 second buff, the rings should just give a plain stackable buff, and going through the last ring consumes that buff and your score and amount of malvanum gears is determined by amount of time left + number of ring buffs you got.​​
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Posts: 4,915 Arc User
    aesica wrote: »
    4: surfboard race: this has several annoying wrinkles, most notably the ramps. But also there's the possibility of getting a DQ because you messed up a turn.
    The ramps actually make it kind of fun. That said, it's easier to DQ by accident in CM than it is in the surfboard race.
    the ramps are fun... until you try to actually race over them.
    1: the tiki torches at the top have collision. And it's not as simple as "I bumped into it and slowed down", hit it fast enough and at a glancing angle and it can pinball you wildly off-course.
    2: the shape of the ramp is weird. It's not a smooth slope and actually has a sort of hook at the top. so you actually slow down at the top.
    3: some ramp locations are weird. One of them is actually a bit sideways.
    4: hitting multiple ramps in quick succession can launch you high enough that you go outside the part of the map where you're allowed to use the hoverboard.
    The biggest thing for me is the fail mechanic. In CM you fail if the buff you get for going through a ring expires. Each time you go through a ring it refreshes the buff. In the ice running and surfing it's leaving the course... which is super fickle.
    Honestly, I never had a problem with leaving the course on those. With ice racing especially, it seems pretty generous actually. I've had several "oh my god oh my god I went out!" moments, only to realize that I haven't been disqualified. Every time I have been disqualified:

    1) It's hard to argue why. I either ran too far up a hill, or hopelessly too far onto the frozen lake.
    Sounds like you're talking exclusively about the PvE ice race here. The PvP ice race has the infamous "lemming drop" which is something most players who've never done the race before will do by accident, and will DQ you, at least in the current version.
    2) You can go right back to the NPC and try again without having to sit and stare at an event timer. And that right there is the big one for me.
    Only true of the PvE ice race and flying high, the other three are in-game events where if you fail you have to wait for the event to cycle back around... which might be 30+ minutes. Also in the surfing race, almost everyone gets DQed the first time because they haven't figured out how to stop at the goal. I really think that a decorative cargo net would have been a good choice to stop people from careening out of bounds.
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  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Posts: 4,915 Arc User
    Millennium flight, cape glide, and rank 3 teleport are also fast enough to complete the races, though R3 Teleport is just barely fast enough for the red race.
    I think any R3 flight can work. I once did it using standard flight IIRC.
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  • pantagruel01pantagruel01 Posts: 7,091 Arc User
    ]I think any R3 flight can work. I once did it using standard flight IIRC.
    r3 teleport = flight speed 91; the cd on coming in and out of teleport actually reduces it to 80-ish. Rank 3 flight is a non-combat flight speed of 82, so it should be about as hard as teleport. Millennial flight has a fourth gear which makes it faster than other base flight powers, and can probably do it at rank 2, as can jet pack/jet boots. It might be possible with ice slide or swinging, though anyone who manages either of those is hardcore.
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Posts: 4,915 Arc User
    edited August 2018
    I think any R3 flight can work. I once did it using standard flight IIRC.
    r3 teleport = flight speed 91; the cd on coming in and out of teleport actually reduces it to 80-ish. Rank 3 flight is a non-combat flight speed of 82, so it should be about as hard as teleport. Millennial flight has a fourth gear which makes it faster than other base flight powers, and can probably do it at rank 2, as can jet pack/jet boots. It might be possible with ice slide or swinging, though anyone who manages either of those is hardcore.
    Never tried either Ice Slide or Swinging, but mainly because I don't use them.
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  • psychicslugpsychicslug Posts: 722 Arc User
    Grinding is in every MMO. You'll get used to it....or burn out. One or the other.

    i think this is the main cause with them the reason i take long breaks and only play a little and avoid end content. I keep thinking there has to be a better way to make a mmo without falling in to the grind rut like they all do. City of heroes was a grind at times but still managed to keep me coming back and occupied. Maybe a more dynamic set up would work, were the game adjusted per the person in regards to foes and friends. Not sure but do remember foes running from me in coh if i was kicking their buts and having to run them down. or some who tried to pick a fight even if i could squash them. The mayhem missions, the timed bank heist, clue drops "which this has a bit of" hazard zone maps and other such things. Hell they didn't even have lock boxes and costume drops or stuff behind pay walls till the last year it was running. I really miss it as it was the only one to get the game right and its death was far to soon, champions is a pale echo of it.
  • roughbearmattachroughbearmattach Posts: 4,784 Arc User
    If you never "tap the ground", you maintain momentum when coming out of teleport--this means that you barely slow down between 'ports.
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  • vonqballvonqball Posts: 923 Arc User
    lezard21 wrote: »
    My main issue with the race is how latency can **** you up real good when going through a hoop and CO doesn't exactly have top notch servers.

    IMO, instead of a 10 second buff, the rings should just give a plain stackable buff, and going through the last ring consumes that buff and your score and amount of malvanum gears is determined by amount of time left + number of ring buffs you got.​​

    This actually sounds like a decent starting point to me. It would also make incorporating damaging hazards and enemies a bit less punishing.

  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Posts: 4,915 Arc User
    It would be nice if you got more stuff for a higher score.
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  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,450 Arc User
    It would be nice if you got more stuff for a higher score.

    The prototype Hawkwings existing means this can never happen.​​
  • themightyzeniththemightyzenith Posts: 4,599 Arc User
    spinnytop wrote: »
    It would be nice if you got more stuff for a higher score.

    The prototype Hawkwings existing means this can never happen.​​

    Just nerf them.

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  • xacchaeusxacchaeus Posts: 308 Arc User
    spinnytop wrote: »
    It would be nice if you got more stuff for a higher score.

    The prototype Hawkwings existing means this can never happen.​​

    considering the number of those in use, I see no issue with it...
  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,450 Arc User
    edited August 2018
    xacchaeus wrote: »
    considering the number of those in use, I see no issue with it...

    Me either, but that's because I don't do this event so I'm biased.
    Just nerf them.

    I support your call to nerf the Prototype Hawkwings. You should make a poll for it.​​
  • ealford1985ealford1985 Posts: 3,582 Arc User
    ^ i agree.

    I mean everything else does, why not
  • themightyzeniththemightyzenith Posts: 4,599 Arc User
    I don't make polls. They don't mean much here.
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  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,450 Arc User
    That's fine, I'm sure this is getting pushed through. It's a really good idea.​​
  • aesicaaesica Posts: 2,537 Arc User
    ...
    So basically, you're saying that all of the STO races have flaws (and they do) but CM seems like it combines like all of the worst flaws from the various STO races without offering any of the good.

    1. Easy to get disqualified for stupid reasons? Check! (pvp ice race, surfboard race)
    2. Wait to restart? Check! (pvp ice race, surfboard race)
    3. Unclear racetrack? Check! (Unique to CO!)

    As for the surfboard race specifically, how are you bumping into the torches? I've literally never done this. :O

    Honestly, all they really need to do is make the racetrack more visible so it can be an actual race and not a guessing game or scout-the-track-several-times-to-memorize-it game.
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  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Posts: 4,915 Arc User
    1: It's not "easy to get DQed" in CM. Unless you're one of those people who spends half the race wondering where the next ring is.
    2: rezone, they're not synced.
    3: Oh this applies to STO too. You probably haven't had it pop up since you've already memorized all the STO races. Now it is a lesser issue with STO, BUT, since the STO races have less forgiving DQs one slip(literally in the ice race) means you failed and have to restart. Trying to find the rings for the flying part of the Biathlon is actually rather annoying... the first few times, then you've memorized it. And yes the flying part of the Biathlon is EXACTLY like the red course in CM! It even has trees to obscure the next ring.

    Honestly the main thing in CM is that rings are hidden behind buildings and you need to memorize which building. but it DOES give you clues.
    malvanumangles_by_marhawkman-dclat05.png
    Not a map, just a demonstration, but the rings are angled towards the next ring. Thus even the red course points you in the direction of the next target.
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  • jaazaniah1jaazaniah1 Posts: 5,425 Arc User
    While I hate CM (but want some of the goodies) I seldom have the troubles mentioned above. I don't at all care about scores. I just do the easy race and take my time. If I don't get all the tokens I need on the current go round (literally) I just wait for the next one. CM has one of the poorer stores, so not a big deal.

    On another note. Am I the only one who thinks "Circus" Malvanum should have us fighting evil clowns, a circus master, knife thrower, strong man, bearded lady, etc. from a distant part of the galaxy? (Note: I do know what Circus means in this context, I'd just rather fight an Intergalactic Circus of Crime, rather than jump through hoops).
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  • pwestolemynamepwestolemyname Posts: 978 Arc User
    vonqball wrote: »
    So, 4 gears per alert, with 200-300 gear costs for the costume pieces. Am I supposed to be running this long-**** alert 50 times to get one prize?

    Makes me want to not bother at all.

    I just don't bother. If I wanted to play a race game, I'd play a race game, but I want to play a super-hero game. I do enjoy fighting in the Forum, but even I can't run it that many times. So, I just play it normally during the event, save up tokens forever and ever, and maybe sometime get something. But, basically, I just totally ignore this event.
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  • mordray001mordray001 Posts: 218 Arc User
    jaazaniah1 wrote: »
    On another note. Am I the only one who thinks "Circus" Malvanum should have us fighting evil clowns, a circus master, knife thrower, strong man, bearded lady, etc. from a distant part of the galaxy? (Note: I do know what Circus means in this context, I'd just rather fight an Intergalactic Circus of Crime, rather than jump through hoops).

    I being rather new to this, played for a few weeks a few years back, had no idea what this was and was actually actually looking forward to some creepy clown/carny bashing... racing through the sky... not so much.

    I'm not even sure how to do this event. Is it level gated? I do have a Hawkwing from the nighthawk event... so I tried, but there doesn't appear to be any in game info to point my character towards the event.​​
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Posts: 4,915 Arc User
    mordray001 wrote: »
    jaazaniah1 wrote: »
    On another note. Am I the only one who thinks "Circus" Malvanum should have us fighting evil clowns, a circus master, knife thrower, strong man, bearded lady, etc. from a distant part of the galaxy? (Note: I do know what Circus means in this context, I'd just rather fight an Intergalactic Circus of Crime, rather than jump through hoops).
    I being rather new to this, played for a few weeks a few years back, had no idea what this was and was actually actually looking forward to some creepy clown/carny bashing... racing through the sky... not so much.

    I'm not even sure how to do this event. Is it level gated? I do have a Hawkwing from the nighthawk event... so I tried, but there doesn't appear to be any in game info to point my character towards the event.​​
    1: it's over now.

    2: it's high up in the air above the city. when it's active fly up to the helicopter hovering above ren cen.
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