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Too much 'Soak Tanks' just blocking, doing nothing at Dino.

monaahirumonaahiru Posts: 3,070 Arc User
Yes we have several damage reflection devices and some block powers dealing damage but...
I feel not so good seeing many tanks just block and standing and causing DPS check failing many times.
I feel its just a leech. At least they should do something during DPS check or wish for less score for no rewards. o3o
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Comments

  • monaahirumonaahiru Posts: 3,070 Arc User
    Does we even need 'tanks' not holding aggro or even deal damages by attacking?
    Its not a soak tank but a statue just eating support buffs. o3o
  • jaazaniah1jaazaniah1 Posts: 3,118 Arc User
    Well, some people may be new to tanking dino and are trying to be cautious and learn the timing? Or maybe it's a vet cautiously trying a new build? I know I always attack when ST, MT or BT.
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  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 15,187 Arc User
    edited January 21
    I mean if they're just standing there holding block then what timing would they be learning u3u gotta get some taps out at least. And if that vet really wants to test their build they should probably use it... I mean unless it's literally just a block and then a bunch of heals? That could be neat. Someone do that.​​
  • warcanchwarcanch Posts: 643 Arc User
    My fire block does lots o damage. Shuddup!​​
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  • pantagruel01pantagruel01 Posts: 6,218 Arc User
    Soak tanks who don't attack have a pretty good chance of not getting credit either, so it's a bit of a self-correcting problem. The main use for soak tanks at dino is for when she glitches and bites for 300k damage.
  • nbkxsnbkxs Posts: 545 Arc User
    I think they help a lot more than they hurt, esp when those bites come down and kill the most sturdy tanks in one shot.
    [NbK]XStorm
  • monaahirumonaahiru Posts: 3,070 Arc User
    nbkxs wrote: »
    I think they help a lot more than they hurt, esp when those bites come down and kill the most sturdy tanks in one shot.

    But aggro just moves to DPS side in most case. If aggro moves tank to tank, I won't say anything. o3o
  • theglasskittentheglasskitten Posts: 133 Arc User
    Regarding the tanks who are standing in the DPS pile and providing minimal to negative contribution.. this is going to continue as long as open world content exist. In the current state of cosmics the most productive option is to try to help the people you see doing so learn to give meaningful contribution. It’s also a never ending process as long as new players are joining the game.
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  • warcanchwarcanch Posts: 643 Arc User
    Regarding the tanks who are standing in the DPS pile and providing minimal to negative contribution.. this is going to continue as long as open world content exist. In the current state of cosmics the most productive option is to try to help the people you see doing so learn to give meaningful contribution. It’s also a never ending process as long as new players are joining the game.

    As is, while standing in the middle of the pack, I view some players only using their Energy Builder during the entire encounter.

    But, now I digress from the "tank" portion of the dialogue.​​
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  • pantagruel01pantagruel01 Posts: 6,218 Arc User
    monaahiru wrote: »
    nbkxs wrote: »
    I think they help a lot more than they hurt, esp when those bites come down and kill the most sturdy tanks in one shot.

    But aggro just moves to DPS side in most case. If aggro moves tank to tank, I won't say anything. o3o
    Point is, if dino does a super-bite that would normally do 320k base damage, or something like 20k after defenses and blocking, a soak tank means it does only 160k to each, and both tanks live.
  • monaahirumonaahiru Posts: 3,070 Arc User
    edited January 22
    monaahiru wrote: »
    nbkxs wrote: »
    I think they help a lot more than they hurt, esp when those bites come down and kill the most sturdy tanks in one shot.

    But aggro just moves to DPS side in most case. If aggro moves tank to tank, I won't say anything. o3o
    Point is, if dino does a super-bite that would normally do 320k base damage, or something like 20k after defenses and blocking, a soak tank means it does only 160k to each, and both tanks live.

    Ah, I didn't notice that. Alright, kk for this thread.
    BTW the same thing happen at Eido?
  • pantagruel01pantagruel01 Posts: 6,218 Arc User
    monaahiru wrote: »
    Ah, I didn't notice that. Alright, kk for this thread.
    BTW the same thing happen at Eido?
    No, Eido has some splittable attacks but doesn't have the super-damage glitches, and a soak tank is an additional geyser target so sort of a liability once you reach the third bar.
  • monaahirumonaahiru Posts: 3,070 Arc User
    monaahiru wrote: »
    Ah, I didn't notice that. Alright, kk for this thread.
    BTW the same thing happen at Eido?
    No, Eido has some splittable attacks but doesn't have the super-damage glitches, and a soak tank is an additional geyser target so sort of a liability once you reach the third bar.

    I rarely see some Tanks standing near by MT at Eido and that runs are 100% fail so far...
    I noted that. o3o
  • jaazaniah1jaazaniah1 Posts: 3,118 Arc User
    If dino fails because of one soak tank not doing damage isn't the real culprit terrible dps?
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  • monaahirumonaahiru Posts: 3,070 Arc User
    edited January 22
    jaazaniah1 wrote: »
    If dino fails because of one soak tank not doing damage isn't the real culprit terrible dps?

    I sometimes see more then 2 non- MT/OT tanks...
  • Honestly I appreciate soak tanks even if they aren't attacking, atleast one we don't need a army, or if they're learning that's fine but I think they won't learn if they just block, but soak tanks always help, I find it a issue when it's tanks in dps pile, not trying to provide help, and/or stealing aggro towards the dps pile. however as the person said above, it's open world content, it's an MMO best we can do is try to help them and stuff, instead of calling them out rudely in zone or making forum posts.
  • pantagruel01pantagruel01 Posts: 6,218 Arc User
    jaazaniah1 wrote: »
    If dino fails because of one soak tank not doing damage isn't the real culprit terrible dps?
    Well, if you replaced the soak tank with a dps, dps would be better...
  • nbkxsnbkxs Posts: 545 Arc User
    The sentient AI is not wrong.
    [NbK]XStorm
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Posts: 4,487 Arc User
    jaazaniah1 wrote: »
    If dino fails because of one soak tank not doing damage isn't the real culprit terrible dps?
    Well, if you replaced the soak tank with a dps, dps would be better...
    don't most DPS die even if they block bites? :p

    Heh. I gotta say that if you're new to Cosmic tanking it's REALLY easy to get squashed flat as a ST. Then again I play a Regen tank instead of Defiance so that adds a bit of extra challenge to it.
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  • I think it would be smart for the soak tank to attack during thr dps check.... But it only helps if you are failing checks by a very very small margin. Usually just safer to keep blocking.
  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 15,187 Arc User
    Actually the OT should be attacking during the DPS check since neither dino is dealing any damage. All tanks should be absolutely spamming their fingers off during the DPS check.​​
  • pantagruel01pantagruel01 Posts: 6,218 Arc User
    spinnytop wrote: »
    Actually the OT should be attacking during the DPS check since neither dino is dealing any damage.
    However, they will do so a lot better if they also do something (what depends on toggle) to maintain form/enrage stacks. Attacking is also good practice for being a main tank.
  • aiqaaiqa Posts: 2,618 Arc User
    Passive OTs are just a normal response to tanking mechanics on cosmics. If the devs want more active (off/soak)tanking the mechanics just need to enforce that more.
  • pantagruel01pantagruel01 Posts: 6,218 Arc User
    aiqa wrote: »
    Passive OTs are just a normal response to tanking mechanics on cosmics.
    Hm. Debatable. The optimal response to tanking mechanics for cosmics is generally to have a single main tank, and a single character (OT at dino, CC at ape, kiga) doing add management. The fundamental problem is that the number of tanks who want to be at cosmics (for GCR, if nothing else) is often higher than the number of tanks actually needed, so there's excess tanks, and it's better for them to be soak tanks than try to dps from the dps pile and cause the cosmic to turn and attack the dps.
  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 15,187 Arc User
    Well, the whole "attack or don't get enough score, and hence no rewards" enforces this on short runs at least. Removing score for taking damage entirely and instead making it so that being hit by a cosmic's main attack applies a debuff to you that temporarily increases how much score you get for attacking would enforce it even more. Then add a decaying score requiring everyone to be constantly attacking or risk no rewards would enforce it on even long runs.

    Currently the only non-scoreboard related way of enforcing offensive behavior from off-tanks is Dodge tanking. They could do some sort of thing where the tanks all get a debuff on them frequently throughout the fight and to get it off before it does something horrible they have to hit the boss a few times. Like say Dino rears back for an extreme mega chomp, and only the damage coming from people who got hit by the last normal bite, via a debuff, counts towards stopping the mega chomp - hit it with enough damage and the mega chomp is instead a regular bite.​​
  • ealford1985ealford1985 Posts: 3,076 Arc User
    Elitist problems .
  • pantagruel01pantagruel01 Posts: 6,218 Arc User
    The mega chomp is probably a bug -- mama gets buffs based on the distance to the baby, and mega chomps mostly occur in situations when the baby is moving, suggesting that those buffs can stack improperly.
  • pwestolemynamepwestolemyname Posts: 978 Arc User
    aiqa wrote: »
    Passive OTs are just a normal response to tanking mechanics on cosmics.
    Hm. Debatable. The optimal response to tanking mechanics for cosmics is generally to have a single main tank, and a single character (OT at dino, CC at ape, kiga) doing add management. The fundamental problem is that the number of tanks who want to be at cosmics (for GCR, if nothing else) is often higher than the number of tanks actually needed, so there's excess tanks, and it's better for them to be soak tanks than try to dps from the dps pile and cause the cosmic to turn and attack the dps.
    This is the real issue.

    As far as the "soak" tank attacking or not, unless they are an unusually high dps tank, it hardly makes a difference. Certainly everyone should be attacking during DPS check, but a couple tanks attacking during the non-check periods is not going to significantly shorten the length of the run.

    The main reason a secondary tank should be attacking is to build aggro so that if the main tank misses a block, the secondary will take up aggro, instead of a healer or DPS.
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  • warcanchwarcanch Posts: 643 Arc User
    SPEAKING FOR ALL BABY TANKS:

    Even when I've engaged Baby dino and smack it between chomps, bubbles, and breath, often I don't make the reward circle because the dps was good enough to maybe only miss one check. My dps as the Baby tank needs more consideration. Thank you.​​
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  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 15,187 Arc User
    Give Dino a sizeable resistance buff while it's above 70% health. There, now babby tanks and OTs get credit, without substantially changing the fight.​​
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