That is after all the main mechanic that allows people to survive those attacks.
That would be silly. Silly arguments of the kind that people always make whenever this subject comes up, as if it really wouldn't be possible to make some content for a mid-difficulty endgame without player nerfs or trinity roles. It's doubly silly because very few people play the endgame content for the difficulty challenge - most do it because they want something and the game is trying hard not to give it to them.
it stopped players from reliably being able to even get Merc gear fast for their alts
I normally level my characters up with a fair amount of story content as this increases the amount of resources I have available when I hit 40. Normally I have over 150g and that's enough for a set of blue gear (assuming I need it, as the late levelling content often has better stuff). But it would be nice to be able to have some better content from 35+ to test out end gamebuilds, provide G for gear and retconning / re-working, all the stuff you usually need to do by 40...
The funny thing is, we already have the triniy, and it is part of how to do end game...so, talk about silly arguments. You might be against the trinity, but, it is already here, and it will most likely stay.
Merc is easy to get, with Q or from AH or lockboxes.
Heroic is SCR, and after Hotspots were changed and Heroic prices changed, became "not worth the effort", since you could start saving up for better stuff.
Mid-difficulty endgame is things like NemCon and Andrith. Fundamentally, endgame is about increasing tiers of difficulty, and the final tier is necessarily hard.
You're defending something against an attack which hasn't been made. But we have reached the limit of players who want content of that kind - the deserted zones, lairs, single zone cosmic runs show it - so why not make something else?
The funny thing is, we already have the triniy, and it is part of how to do end game...so, talk about silly arguments. You might be against the trinity, but, it is already here, and it will most likely stay.
I'm not against it, it's just that we have a levelling game which doesn't really need it, an end-game which does, and no particular route to navigate from one to the other. Which is why I'd like to see level 35+ given some content to encourage people to use their time to learn the skills of each role without annoying 30 players who've waited an hour for each cosmic run. While they're at it they can rebuild and gear up rather than playing Grab alerts to 40 and getting smashed the first time they try to do some end-game stuff.
There needs to be an increasing difficulty in attaining gear for each level of item you're trying to get. Merc > Heroic > Justice > Legion.. etc etc.
You can get Merc gear cheaply off the AH, things from the Q store, and be reasonably well geared without having to go near the End-game.... the high-end stuff has to be made really hard to get or everyone would just farm for it and then complain they've got nothing to do anymore. It's the middle section where they've put the bar too high: Heroic gear should be attainable just by having a good, regular go at the Q Zone/Cosmics/Lairs, with Legion being the 150 SCR per piece set that you have to work for.
Merc is easy to get, with Q or from AH or lockboxes.
Heroic is SCR, and after Hotspots were changed and Heroic prices changed, became "not worth the effort", since you could start saving up for better stuff.
The funny thing is, we already have the triniy, and it is part of how to do end game...so, talk about silly arguments. You might be against the trinity, but, it is already here, and it will most likely stay.
I'm not against it, it's just that we have a levelling game which doesn't really need it, an end-game which does, and no particular route to navigate from one to the other. Which is why I'd like to see level 35+ given some content to encourage people to use their time to learn the skills of each role without annoying 30 players who've waited an hour for each cosmic run. While they're at it they can rebuild and gear up rather than playing Grab alerts to 40 and getting smashed the first time they try to do some end-game stuff.
Ah, ok, now I see where you are coming from. And, it is true. Most of the game, the game doesn't need the trinity, than suddenyl, BOOM, need trinity at end game. It is a little offsetting. Though, technically, there are lairs that you can do while leveling, I remember a time where those lairs were better off being done in a group. But, that isn't even close to the case anymore.
What exactly do you mean "navigate from on to the other."? Do you mean, an easy way to switch roles with a character? If so, you are absolutely right. There is no good way to switch roles. Simply switching your role via the interface, does nothing really due to the powers you already selected and how you built their advantages. It is possible to make dual spec toons, but, it is obnoxious to make them. And, they tend to not be as good as full fledged members of that role. Of course, one of the issues we'd have here is the entire thing about retcons and how super heroes do not really change powers (except in this game). Of course, I'd counter that line of argument with: Anyone can learn something new.
The only solution to the above, would be to make the extra...uh...what were they called again? I think most people use them to change costumes on the fly? They sit above your power tray, I tend to not use them at all, so I ignore them... But I think they are also there to allow easy role switching. But, if they were to go that far, I'd rather them make them actual new roles. IE: When you select the new role, you get new powers to select the role.
Of course, this would also create all sorts of problems...But, hey, that would be the best way to fix that issue.
Now, on the other hand, for teaching peopel about the roles and the importance of said roles, the alerts could be the training grounds. But, that would require signifigant reworking of the alert system and the mobs in them. For one, it would have to be set so that when a person queues for an alert, the queue looks at their role and slots them in to a group that needs that role. Of course, with such a small game population as CO's, this would be problematic.
There would also have to be other things done to make things easier to understand about roles, powers, advantages, etc. But, most of this will not happen. Sadly.
It's actually fairly common in trinity MMOs that on the way to max level you don't need to worry about trinity and then max level it becomes required. Why do their populations manage but we need special treatment?
It's actually fairly common in trinity MMOs that on the way to max level you don't need to worry about trinity and then max level it becomes required. Why do their populations manage but we need special treatment?
It's actually fairly common in trinity MMOs that on the way to max level you don't need to worry about trinity and then max level it becomes required. Why do their populations manage but we need special treatment?
Well, CO's longevity is down to not being every other game, so best not use that as the benchmark.
We also have a shed load of abandoned content very suitable for being played by 35-40 level characters but giving no particular reason to do it, and a game which gives very special treatment by allowing players to hit the level cap by playing content ten levels below that cap. Any other games that let you do that? Can't think of many. Asking people to focus their levelling on tougher content (Rampages) would hardly be simplifying things.
What exactly do you mean "navigate from on to the other."? Do you mean, an easy way to switch roles with a character?
Build switching is useful but you won't get an optimised character from it - power choices, advantages, super stats, specializations - all need rebuilding if you're going to specialise for the end game (and not get told off for not pulling your weight). You could ask people to start doing that earlier than level 40, when rebuilding is cheaper and there's time (and content) to use for testing.
What exactly do you mean "navigate from on to the other."? Do you mean, an easy way to switch roles with a character?
Build switching is useful but you won't get an optimised character from it - power choices, advantages, super stats, specializations - all need rebuilding if you're going to specialise for the end game (and not get told off for not pulling your weight). You could ask people to start doing that earlier than level 40, when rebuilding is cheaper and there's time (and content) to use for testing.
True, though, in my opinion, retconning just needs to be cheaper. Many games nowadays, having you being able to switch specs, is either free, or very cheap. CO is the only one different in that aspect.
Well as a casual player who doesn't log on every day - I understand the OP's point. OTOH - I remember when end game gear could be easily had in 3 to 5 days with minimal effort. And players did indeed complain the game was 'too easy' and there was no real reason to play.
Now as I see it - there really isn't a challenge in the game that requires high-end gear. Even Cosmic's can be done with Merc and Heroics. I usually just plunk down $10 bucks, buy some keys, then sell the keys on the exchange. Which gives me more than enough to purchase decent Heroics (If you're a subscriber, just buy keys with your monthly stipend). I used to get Legendary gear that way - but Cryptic put an end to that, by making Legendary gear extremely rare.
Even without that kind of set gear - I can still put together a serviceable build with super cheap blue gear from the exchange. This game just isn't that difficult - and there are no gear checks at all. So you can play the entire range of content rather decently without grinding Cosmics at all. CO is probably the easiest and most casual MMO in existence.
Quite frankly, the end game gear is vastly overpowered for the majority of the game. It's like you grind all that high-level gear and you're left thinking "ok now what do I do with it?" The answer is "not much."
Well as a casual player who doesn't log on every day - I understand the OP's point. OTOH - I remember when end game gear could be easily had in 3 to 5 days with minimal effort. And players did indeed complain the game was 'too easy' and there was no real reason to play.
Now as I see it - there really isn't a challenge in the game that requires high-end gear. Even Cosmic's can be done with Merc and Heroics. I usually just plunk down $10 bucks, buy some keys, then sell the keys on the exchange. Which gives me more than enough to purchase decent Heroics (If you're a subscriber, just buy keys with your monthly stipend). I used to get Legendary gear that way - but Cryptic put an end to that, by making Legendary gear extremely rare.
Even without that kind of set gear - I can still put together a serviceable build with super cheap blue gear from the exchange. This game just isn't that difficult - and there are no gear checks at all. So you can play the entire range of content rather decently without grinding Cosmics at all. CO is probably the easiest and most casual MMO in existence.
Quite frankly, the end game gear is vastly overpowered for the majority of the game. It's like you grind all that high-level gear and you're left thinking "ok now what do I do with it?" The answer is "not much."
Which just goes to show another problem with the game.
True, though, in my opinion, retconning just needs to be cheaper. Many games nowadays, having you being able to switch specs, is either free, or very cheap. CO is the only one different in that aspect.
The only one?
For many of those many games you don't see players running around with 100+ characters. They make it easy to retcon because for your character to be viable at all levels of content your investment in that particular character needs to be high. What CO makes easy, that those games do not, is making alts that are viable for all of the content in the game.
I don't know of a multiplayer pve game where it's possible to go from level 1 to max level + have viable gear for all endgame encounters within 1 weekend and to have it be super easy to retcon that character for free at any time.
True, though, in my opinion, retconning just needs to be cheaper. Many games nowadays, having you being able to switch specs, is either free, or very cheap. CO is the only one different in that aspect.
The only one?
For many of those many games you don't see players running around with 100+ characters. They make it easy to retcon because for your character to be viable at all levels of content your investment in that particular character needs to be high. What CO makes easy, that those games do not, is making alts that are viable for all of the content in the game.
I don't know of a multiplayer pve game where it's possible to go from level 1 to max level + have viable gear for all endgame encounters within 1 weekend and to have it be super easy to retcon that character for free at any time.
Well, to be fair, this is the only one like that. But, you also have to look at it like this. Not everyone is an altoholic. But, the main reason the other games are not like this, is because they have an actual limit on how many characters you can have on a server (including free and bought character slots). As far as I know, CO, does not have an upper limit (possibly the same with STO, but, STO is more like the other games in the fact that you do not need 100+ characters). Many games that started with expensive spec changing, have either toned down the costs involved, or out right removed them. Truth is, desptie the fact that I have 170+ characters here in CO, I have one main, who I am almost always on when I am on CO. And, there are plenty of players in CO that have only a handful of toons, some with even one. Plus, further more, with the number of characters I have, lets say, exactly zero of them have free retcons (from any source), but, I want to retcon a few of them. Think about how expensive it is to do a full retcon in this game. Even doing a few characters is a pain in the rear due to the cost, and that is if we go with resources and not a C-store purchased retcon.
I don't know of a multiplayer pve game where it's possible to go from level 1 to max level + have viable gear for all endgame encounters within 1 weekend and to have it be super easy to retcon that character for free at any time.
Diablo 3.
Most MMOs have significantly more content and a much higher level cap. They also tend to increase the level cap on a regular basis with the new content they add in. WoW's level was 40 or 60 way back in vanilla. I wouldn't be surprised if you could get to at least level 40 in a weekend with most MMOs now.
Not a good reason to have expensive respecs. Any silver player has only two character slots before they need to pony up cash for more. And they pay / grind for all respecs since they get zero for free. If my character slots are full, a new power revamp happens, and I have no toons that got a free respec, what incentive is there to even care about these new changes? I have to pay more money for a slot, pay through the nose for a respec, or destroy a character just play around with the new stuff.
Seems like Cryptic would want to encourage people to play around with the biggest selling point. It's bad enough the respec system is a pile of garbage.
Most MMOs have significantly more content and a much higher level cap. They also tend to increase the level cap on a regular basis with the new content they add in. WoW's level was 40 or 60 way back in vanilla. I wouldn't be surprised if you could get to at least level 40 in a weekend with most MMOs now.
Right so each character you make needs and gets a lot more investment, than CO characters, to be able to play all that content. The point was about what it takes to be able to play the entire game on one character....not what it takes to reach an arbitrary level.
And yeah last year WoW made close to $3 billion dollars...that's not an exaggeration. That is actually how much money came in from subscriptions+sales. They have a development team the size of a nearby town and literally make billions of dollars. So yeah they put out more content updates than CO. Oceans have more water than puddles...is there a point to comparing them?
Not a good reason to have expensive respecs. Any silver player has only two character slots before they need to pony up cash for more. And they pay / grind for all respecs since they get zero for free. If my character slots are full, a new power revamp happens, and I have no toons that got a free respec, what incentive is there to even care about these new changes? I have to pay more money for a slot, pay through the nose for a respec, or destroy a character just play around with the new stuff
50g to redo all talents and specs. INSANE. 300g to redo most powers. CRAZY RIPOFF. Do they think we own gold plated toilets or something?!?! Since there is absolutely no reasonable way to get 300g, I'll destroy a character just to play around with new stuff.
"Bit of a stretch no? Hardly comparable to a free to play mmo."
You said multiplayer. D3 has multiplayer. Pointing out your poor word choice, not really anything you were supposed to comment on.
"Oceans have more water than puddles...is there a point to comparing them?"
I don't know. Why are YOU doing it? Why did you even start? If there is no point in comparing, there was no point in you ever typing out anything at all.
Not everyone wants to trash their $25 character or spend another $5 just to try out powers they may not even like. It's not as if companies make games F2P to remove the pay barrier to make more money with things other than subscription fees and that a similar comparison to making it more appealing to come back for new powers can't be made. Or that people haven't been complaining about the stupid price of respecs for ages. Or that the respec system isn't a hot mess of poo.
respeccing is free, as you can swap pretty much every aspect of your character as you please - even gem unsocketing is free now, though it used to carry a (minor, all things considered) cost
The opposite of anything is nothing, and if you exist, you are something, thus, this statement, is, literally, incorrect. So, not sure what you were aiming at for with that incorrect statement.
respeccing is free, as you can swap pretty much every aspect of your character as you please - even gem unsocketing is free now, though it used to carry a (minor, all things considered) cost
That's a pretty drastic change from D2. In D2 respecs were a quest reward you could only get a limited number of times. It was almost easier to make a new character. And unsocketing? hahahahahaha.... you could accidentally socket things and not remove them...
The opposite of anything is nothing, and if you exist, you are something, thus, this statement, is, literally, incorrect. So, not sure what you were aiming at for with that incorrect statement.
I believe he was saying that everyone is different, thus statements of "everyone is X" are almost always wrong.
"Ok? It doesn't make your bad comparison any better."
When you are trying to make a point, using the right words is important. Words have meaning. Assuming everyone will figure out what you actually meant doesn't work. Using incorrect words makes you look like you have no idea what you're talking about. It wasn't a comparison, it was me simply saying "Diablo 3" to make you aware of your error in words.
I didn't say anything about respecs and leveling before you started the comparisons. You decided after I made comparisons as you were that it was stupid to make them. Seems like you're just unhappy about me punching holes into your arguments. So, I'll just do it more.
"The point was about what it takes to be able to play the entire game on one character....not what it takes to reach an arbitrary level."
This is a horrible comparison since many other games have far more content and keep raising the level cap. Considering this game hasn't had a level cap increase, we can say there should be a lot more end game for a game of 8 years than there is. Talking about level 40 in other games is not an arbitrary level. It's a very specific level. The same level as this game's cap.
"And yeah last year WoW made close to $3 billion dollars...that's not an exaggeration. [...] So yeah they put out more content updates than CO."
WoW isn't the only MMO. It's just the biggest. Level cap increased are not exclusive to WoW. Other MMOs also add more content to their games periodically. I suspect it is the industry standard to add in more content to retain / re-engage players. Especially since there are a vast number of Fantasy MMOs but very few Superhero ones.
In fact, I can also speculate that having nice QoL features like cheaper respecs are a competitive part of making MMOs. With CO's lack of competition, respecs could simply be Cryptic being lazy about adding nice things like that. Their competition keeps getting shut down. You put up with what Cryptic gives you or you go play DCUO.
"50g to redo all talents and specs. INSANE. 300g to redo most powers. CRAZY RIPOFF. Do they think we own gold plated toilets or something?!?! Since there is absolutely no reasonable way to get 300g, I'll destroy a character just to play around with new stuff."
Take your own advice? Not everyone is anything. Literally. Plus the other thing I said.
To point out how irrelevant what you said was to the cost of a retcon.
But you didn't. You made comparisons that were, by your own logic, ridiculous. How does comparing to how much "harder" it is to build up a toon matter for respec costs? This game is about customization, which very few other games can even compare to. Your counter argument to respecs has been to make bad comparisons to other games and make fun of all the people who think it's too expensive.
The opposite of anything is nothing, and if you exist, you are something, thus, this statement, is, literally, incorrect. So, not sure what you were aiming at for with that incorrect statement.
I believe he was saying that everyone is different, thus statements of "everyone is X" are almost always wrong.
If he thought I said everyone is an altoholic, well, he misread what I said, I said "not everyone is an altoholic." So, his statement still doesn't make sense given that context. Cause, I was already pointing out that not everyone is the same in the when it comes to the number of characters they have.
Either that, or he has no idea on how to use the word "literally".
I didn't say anything about respecs and leveling before you started the comparisons. You decided after I made comparisons as you were that it was stupid to make them. Seems like you're just unhappy about me punching holes into your arguments. So, I'll just do it more.
"The point was about what it takes to be able to play the entire game on one character....not what it takes to reach an arbitrary level."
This is a horrible comparison since many other games have far more content and keep raising the level cap. Considering this game hasn't had a level cap increase, we can say there should be a lot more end game for a game of 8 years than there is. Talking about level 40 in other games is not an arbitrary level. It's a very specific level. The same level as this game's cap.
"And yeah last year WoW made close to $3 billion dollars...that's not an exaggeration. [...] So yeah they put out more content updates than CO."
WoW isn't the only MMO. It's just the biggest. Level cap increased are not exclusive to WoW. Other MMOs also add more content to their games periodically. I suspect it is the industry standard to add in more content to retain / re-engage players. Especially since there are a vast number of Fantasy MMOs but very few Superhero ones.
In fact, I can also speculate that having nice QoL features like cheaper respecs are a competitive part of making MMOs. With CO's lack of competition, respecs could simply be Cryptic being lazy about adding nice things like that. Their competition keeps getting shut down. You put up with what Cryptic gives you or you go play DCUO.
"50g to redo all talents and specs. INSANE. 300g to redo most powers. CRAZY RIPOFF. Do they think we own gold plated toilets or something?!?! Since there is absolutely no reasonable way to get 300g, I'll destroy a character just to play around with new stuff."
Take your own advice? Not everyone is anything. Literally. Plus the other thing I said.
To point out how irrelevant what you said was to the cost of a retcon.
But you didn't. You made comparisons that were, by your own logic, ridiculous. How does comparing to how much "harder" it is to build up a toon matter for respec costs? This game is about customization, which very few other games can even compare to. Your counter argument to respecs has been to make bad comparisons to other games and make fun of all the people who think it's too expensive.
CO is not the only MMO out there that has yet to increase it's max level, but, all the ones that I do know, have plenty of end game content. A good example is Guild Wars 1. The max level in GW1 was 20 at release, and even after all expansions, it is still 20. The major difference here is that, you can hit 20 in GW1 fairly early in even one story line, you'd still have about 80%+ worth of game content still available to you when you hit 20 in GW1.
When it comes to Cryptic games, I know for a fact that STO increased it's max level, from 50 to 60. I think even NWO increased their max level at one point (not sure though). CO, is the only game of theirs that did not. And frankly, that might be for the best given how the action bars are set up.
And yeah, due to the lack of competition, Cryptic can get away with having expensive retcons, which, is not really fair to the players. They make money off of other things in the C-Store, especially keys, not retcons. So, there is no real reason why they cannot lower the price of retcons. But, that is my opinion, and, despite this being a common complaint by players over the year, Cryptic has always said "Not going to happen."
Seems like Cryptic would want to encourage people to play around with the biggest selling point.
They do, hence why they encourage you to make a bunch of characters rather than just retconning one over and over.
I'm not an altaholic by any stretch of the word, and I'm fine with the game doing this because it actually has a system in place that makes it fun to create and play multiple characters. It's one of the main strengths that has kept me playing CO well beyond the time I invested in any other MMO, so to me it looks like a good idea that they keep the retcon costs in place.
Seems like Cryptic would want to encourage people to play around with the biggest selling point.
They do, hence why they encourage you to make a bunch of characters rather than just retconning one over and over.
I'm not an altaholic by any stretch of the word, and I'm fine with the game doing this because it actually has a system in place that makes it fun to create and play multiple characters. It's one of the main strengths that has kept me playing CO well beyond the time I invested in any other MMO, so to me it looks like a good idea that they keep the retcon costs in place.
This would be true...if it wasn't so expensive for silvers to expand upon their character slots. Especially to enjoy Free Forms.
Seems like Cryptic would want to encourage people to play around with the biggest selling point.
They do, hence why they encourage you to make a bunch of characters rather than just retconning one over and over.
I'm not an altaholic by any stretch of the word, and I'm fine with the game doing this because it actually has a system in place that makes it fun to create and play multiple characters. It's one of the main strengths that has kept me playing CO well beyond the time I invested in any other MMO, so to me it looks like a good idea that they keep the retcon costs in place.
The retcon system seems to be designed under the assumption that totally changing your build is abnormal.
if i were working for cryptic and the engine wasn't a total piece of s.hit...i'd make the retcon system so swapping a power from a specific framework to another within that framework was free, but if you wanted to exchange it for a power from another framework entirely - that's gonna cost you big moolah
if you're a pyromancer, going from firing twin streams of fire from your hands to hurling an explosive ball of fire requires no effort at all - but going from twin streams of fire to hurling arcs of lightning or calling down a rain of shards comprised of pure darkness, that's either gonna require some alterations to your genetic structure or bargaining with higher powers
of course, you can't set up a mechanic like that in an almost 9 year old game, so spending money is the next best thing
Ideally I'd write a new UI for it that showed what depended on what. Part of the issue is that powers can have prerequisites. But the prerequisites are loosely defined and thus you can have situations where you can't simply swap to a different fire power and still have a functional build.
i'd just remove the tiers completely - if you wanna have something like incinerate at level 6, fine - with its energy cost, you won't be able to channel it for more than one tick anyway
Ideally I'd write a new UI for it that showed what depended on what. Part of the issue is that powers can have prerequisites. But the prerequisites are loosely defined and thus you can have situations where you can't simply swap to a different fire power and still have a functional build.
Loosely defined? Last I checked, they said what they require "X number of powers within the power set, or Y nuumber of total powers". Or something like that. X being a lower number than Y.
If the game is based around creating alts, then gearing them up shouldn't be taking months. If the game *Isn't* based around creating alts, gearing up could take time... but for what purpose since there's no gearchecks ingame and gear that took months to get, isn't that much better then Heroics..
I've always been of the opinion that gear should be steppingstones, Merc, Heroic, Justice , Legion, And the work you need to put in to attain the gear should increase equally, while the increase in your characters performance should also increase proportionately compared to how much work went into getting that full set of Justice / Legion.
When it all comes down to it. I am still not a fan of having a game setting the rules for how fast i can gear up by putting timelocks on everything...
Back in the good days when Hotspots were actually WORTH doing, i could gear up a new alt in 2 days by running hotspots on Epic difficulty for more SCR-rewards.. harder but more rewarding. I never saw the problem with that.. still don't, and i will never understand why the nerfed Hotspots.
What's so bad with a character getting full Mercenary in 2 days !?, it took 6 hours of missiongrind.
By the time I get to 40 I usually have enough Q and Gs to buy an entire set of Mercs (if I want to). If I was really lucky with sellable costume drops I'd be close to a full set of heroics.
Ideally I'd write a new UI for it that showed what depended on what. Part of the issue is that powers can have prerequisites. But the prerequisites are loosely defined and thus you can have situations where you can't simply swap to a different fire power and still have a functional build.
Loosely defined? Last I checked, they said what they require "X number of powers within the power set, or Y nuumber of total powers". Or something like that. X being a lower number than Y.
I was mentally comparing it to the Final Fantasy version where to learn Firaja you have to learn Firaga, which requires Fira, which requires Fire, which is bought from a merchant for some pittance usually. (Just kidding)
But yeah, some games have skill trees where you have to buy skills in a certain order, here you get whatever, although there are SOME limits. Here you could get 3 fire skills, then use them as prereqs for an ICE skill.
If the game is based around creating alts, then gearing them up shouldn't be taking months. If the game *Isn't* based around creating alts, gearing up could take time... but for what purpose since there's no gearchecks ingame and gear that took months to get, isn't that much better then Heroics..
Max gear isn't the same as "gearing up", in my opinion. You can adequately equip your character with gear as soon as you hit 40 with the Q and G you've saved up along the way.
Getting max gear can take a long time, yes, as it should.
Ideally I'd write a new UI for it that showed what depended on what. Part of the issue is that powers can have prerequisites. But the prerequisites are loosely defined and thus you can have situations where you can't simply swap to a different fire power and still have a functional build.
Loosely defined? Last I checked, they said what they require "X number of powers within the power set, or Y nuumber of total powers". Or something like that. X being a lower number than Y.
I was mentally comparing it to the Final Fantasy version where to learn Firaja you have to learn Firaga, which requires Fira, which requires Fire, which is bought from a merchant for some pittance usually. (Just kidding)
But yeah, some games have skill trees where you have to buy skills in a certain order, here you get whatever, although there are SOME limits. Here you could get 3 fire skills, then use them as prereqs for an ICE skill.
Oh...I see what you mean now. That would make sense...and you can kinda say that is how it is with power ranks, since many powers actually change slightly visually with rank rups. In my opinion, the game should just go true free form and get rid of those restrictions. But, that would require a massive rebalance of every single power since everything would basically be a tier 1 power at that point. Of course, if they did make it so you need a certain power to learn another power...they would have to vastly increase the number of powers in the game. Of course, they could do that and throw in a entire slew of awesome cross set powers. But, that would also require a lot of rebalnacing...in the end, both routes would require rebalancing.
what rebalance? just remove the tier system and tie it to level instead; should be possible to set level requirements on the powers without needing additional code, but knowing this engine...
Why would the devs need the tier system or level requirements? Low tier powers tend to be cheaper utilities while high tier tends to be expensive boss killer powers. It's hard to use a tier 3 power at low level without gear / stats / support powers. If Ultimates didn't have level restrictions it would still be nearly impossible to use them at low levels due to massive energy expense.
Respecing would be 1000x more pleasant if it looked like the Hero Creator (neat list, powers have static slots) and you could simply rip out the powers you wanted to respec, even if it was 35g per power.
Why should getting max gearing take a long time?
Most games have chase gear to hunt down, but in CO it's all about the costume bits. Why have it take a long time to gear up when the chase items are cosmetics? Plus, CO is a super hero game, which seems like a perfect match for "power fantasy". What is wrong with the capacity to be OP sooner in a game where you're supposed to be totally super?
Plus, there's always the problem of gear taking a long time to get due to devs wanting to artificially extend the life of content. In CO's case, getting r9s takes a long time because Cryptic wants you to buy the upgrades in the cash shop. Neither of those reasons are positive for players.
what rebalance? just remove the tier system and tie it to level instead; should be possible to set level requirements on the powers without needing additional code, but knowing this engine...
Why would the devs need the tier system or level requirements? Low tier powers tend to be cheaper utilities while high tier tends to be expensive boss killer powers. It's hard to use a tier 3 power at low level without gear / stats / support powers. If Ultimates didn't have level restrictions it would still be nearly impossible to use them at low levels due to massive energy expense.
Respecing would be 1000x more pleasant if it looked like the Hero Creator (neat list, powers have static slots) and you could simply rip out the powers you wanted to respec, even if it was 35g per power.
Why should getting max gearing take a long time?
Most games have chase gear to hunt down, but in CO it's all about the costume bits. Why have it take a long time to gear up when the chase items are cosmetics? Plus, CO is a super hero game, which seems like a perfect match for "power fantasy". What is wrong with the capacity to be OP sooner in a game where you're supposed to be totally super?
Plus, there's always the problem of gear taking a long time to get due to devs wanting to artificially extend the life of content. In CO's case, getting r9s takes a long time because Cryptic wants you to buy the upgrades in the cash shop. Neither of those reasons are positive for players.
Costume pieces is not end game for everyone. There are people out there that want the gear to feel stronger. There are people out there that like grinding cosmics. Costumes might be end game for people like me, but, not for everyone.
Anyone who likes gear grind is probably playing a different game. CO has never been about gear and trying to pretend it is without actually having much gear or even interesting gear isn't going to work. Someone at CO at some time decided that costume bits and power customization were most important. It's way too late and would require a whole lot of work to magically change the game to support chasing gear.
It's not about what people want, it's what the game supports. There has never been and highly unlikely ever will be support for gear as a goal. There really are only 3 different gear sets: Leveling gear, Fresh 40, and Final Form. Two of those can be purchased with real money.
Chasing gear is another way of saying improving your character. In CO, that is done with costume bits and powers, not gear. Since you can simply skip over Heroic and Legion (which is bought not played for) to get the best gear in the game, there isn't even an argument for progression. Different people can't have different end game if it's not supported in the game itself. There is only one set of gear to "work towards" and then they need to re-roll to keep that gear chase going. That makes the end game alts which is power customization and costumes.
Having it take a long time to get a set of gear only delays the inevitable re-roll or quit. People wanting to work for max gear can do so whether it takes a long or short time. Why is taking a long time better for the players? Especially in CO with the lack of gear?
I always wonder why people want to tell me that the way I am enjoying a game is wrong. If that person doesn't like it for whatever reason, fine. I'm going to keep enjoying it the way I want to.
Comments
Merc is easy to get, with Q or from AH or lockboxes.
Heroic is SCR, and after Hotspots were changed and Heroic prices changed, became "not worth the effort", since you could start saving up for better stuff.
Whoever you are, be that person one hundred percent. Don't compromise on your identity.
You're defending something against an attack which hasn't been made. But we have reached the limit of players who want content of that kind - the deserted zones, lairs, single zone cosmic runs show it - so why not make something else?
The funny thing is, we already have the triniy, and it is part of how to do end game...so, talk about silly arguments. You might be against the trinity, but, it is already here, and it will most likely stay.
I'm not against it, it's just that we have a levelling game which doesn't really need it, an end-game which does, and no particular route to navigate from one to the other. Which is why I'd like to see level 35+ given some content to encourage people to use their time to learn the skills of each role without annoying 30 players who've waited an hour for each cosmic run. While they're at it they can rebuild and gear up rather than playing Grab alerts to 40 and getting smashed the first time they try to do some end-game stuff.
There needs to be an increasing difficulty in attaining gear for
each level of item you're trying to get. Merc > Heroic > Justice > Legion.. etc etc.
You can get Merc gear cheaply off the AH, things from the Q store, and be reasonably well geared without having to go near the End-game.... the high-end stuff has to be made really hard to get or everyone would just farm for it and then complain they've got nothing to do anymore. It's the middle section where they've put the bar too high: Heroic gear should be attainable just by having a good, regular go at the Q Zone/Cosmics/Lairs, with Legion being the 150 SCR per piece set that you have to work for.
What exactly do you mean "navigate from on to the other."? Do you mean, an easy way to switch roles with a character? If so, you are absolutely right. There is no good way to switch roles. Simply switching your role via the interface, does nothing really due to the powers you already selected and how you built their advantages. It is possible to make dual spec toons, but, it is obnoxious to make them. And, they tend to not be as good as full fledged members of that role. Of course, one of the issues we'd have here is the entire thing about retcons and how super heroes do not really change powers (except in this game). Of course, I'd counter that line of argument with: Anyone can learn something new.
The only solution to the above, would be to make the extra...uh...what were they called again? I think most people use them to change costumes on the fly? They sit above your power tray, I tend to not use them at all, so I ignore them... But I think they are also there to allow easy role switching. But, if they were to go that far, I'd rather them make them actual new roles. IE: When you select the new role, you get new powers to select the role.
Of course, this would also create all sorts of problems...But, hey, that would be the best way to fix that issue.
Now, on the other hand, for teaching peopel about the roles and the importance of said roles, the alerts could be the training grounds. But, that would require signifigant reworking of the alert system and the mobs in them. For one, it would have to be set so that when a person queues for an alert, the queue looks at their role and slots them in to a group that needs that role. Of course, with such a small game population as CO's, this would be problematic.
There would also have to be other things done to make things easier to understand about roles, powers, advantages, etc. But, most of this will not happen. Sadly.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Well, CO's longevity is down to not being every other game, so best not use that as the benchmark.
We also have a shed load of abandoned content very suitable for being played by 35-40 level characters but giving no particular reason to do it, and a game which gives very special treatment by allowing players to hit the level cap by playing content ten levels below that cap. Any other games that let you do that? Can't think of many. Asking people to focus their levelling on tougher content (Rampages) would hardly be simplifying things.
What exactly do you mean "navigate from on to the other."? Do you mean, an easy way to switch roles with a character?
Build switching is useful but you won't get an optimised character from it - power choices, advantages, super stats, specializations - all need rebuilding if you're going to specialise for the end game (and not get told off for not pulling your weight). You could ask people to start doing that earlier than level 40, when rebuilding is cheaper and there's time (and content) to use for testing.
Now as I see it - there really isn't a challenge in the game that requires high-end gear. Even Cosmic's can be done with Merc and Heroics. I usually just plunk down $10 bucks, buy some keys, then sell the keys on the exchange. Which gives me more than enough to purchase decent Heroics (If you're a subscriber, just buy keys with your monthly stipend). I used to get Legendary gear that way - but Cryptic put an end to that, by making Legendary gear extremely rare.
Even without that kind of set gear - I can still put together a serviceable build with super cheap blue gear from the exchange. This game just isn't that difficult - and there are no gear checks at all. So you can play the entire range of content rather decently without grinding Cosmics at all. CO is probably the easiest and most casual MMO in existence.
Quite frankly, the end game gear is vastly overpowered for the majority of the game. It's like you grind all that high-level gear and you're left thinking "ok now what do I do with it?" The answer is "not much."
For many of those many games you don't see players running around with 100+ characters. They make it easy to retcon because for your character to be viable at all levels of content your investment in that particular character needs to be high. What CO makes easy, that those games do not, is making alts that are viable for all of the content in the game.
I don't know of a multiplayer pve game where it's possible to go from level 1 to max level + have viable gear for all endgame encounters within 1 weekend and to have it be super easy to retcon that character for free at any time.
PARSER USAGE GUIDE: click here for an easy how-to ٩(๑･ิᴗ･ิ)۶٩(･ิᴗ･ิ๑)۶
Spectre beats Eido in an SG run: VIDEO HERE
This is nothing more than a QoL thing.
Diablo 3.
Most MMOs have significantly more content and a much higher level cap. They also tend to increase the level cap on a regular basis with the new content they add in. WoW's level was 40 or 60 way back in vanilla. I wouldn't be surprised if you could get to at least level 40 in a weekend with most MMOs now.
Not a good reason to have expensive respecs. Any silver player has only two character slots before they need to pony up cash for more. And they pay / grind for all respecs since they get zero for free. If my character slots are full, a new power revamp happens, and I have no toons that got a free respec, what incentive is there to even care about these new changes? I have to pay more money for a slot, pay through the nose for a respec, or destroy a character just play around with the new stuff.
Seems like Cryptic would want to encourage people to play around with the biggest selling point. It's bad enough the respec system is a pile of garbage.
[at]riviania Member since Aug 2009
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
My characters
Epic Stronghold
Block timing explained
And yeah last year WoW made close to $3 billion dollars...that's not an exaggeration. That is actually how much money came in from subscriptions+sales. They have a development team the size of a nearby town and literally make billions of dollars. So yeah they put out more content updates than CO. Oceans have more water than puddles...is there a point to comparing them? 50g to redo all talents and specs. INSANE. 300g to redo most powers. CRAZY RIPOFF. Do they think we own gold plated toilets or something?!?! Since there is absolutely no reasonable way to get 300g, I'll destroy a character just to play around with new stuff. Not everyone is anything. Literally.
PARSER USAGE GUIDE: click here for an easy how-to ٩(๑･ิᴗ･ิ)۶٩(･ิᴗ･ิ๑)۶
Spectre beats Eido in an SG run: VIDEO HERE
absolutely - especially with a decent level gem of ease
You said multiplayer. D3 has multiplayer. Pointing out your poor word choice, not really anything you were supposed to comment on.
"Oceans have more water than puddles...is there a point to comparing them?"
I don't know. Why are YOU doing it? Why did you even start? If there is no point in comparing, there was no point in you ever typing out anything at all.
Not everyone wants to trash their $25 character or spend another $5 just to try out powers they may not even like. It's not as if companies make games F2P to remove the pay barrier to make more money with things other than subscription fees and that a similar comparison to making it more appealing to come back for new powers can't be made. Or that people haven't been complaining about the stupid price of respecs for ages. Or that the respec system isn't a hot mess of poo.
[at]riviania Member since Aug 2009
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
My characters
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
My characters
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
My characters
PARSER USAGE GUIDE: click here for an easy how-to ٩(๑･ิᴗ･ิ)۶٩(･ิᴗ･ิ๑)۶
Spectre beats Eido in an SG run: VIDEO HERE
When you are trying to make a point, using the right words is important. Words have meaning. Assuming everyone will figure out what you actually meant doesn't work. Using incorrect words makes you look like you have no idea what you're talking about. It wasn't a comparison, it was me simply saying "Diablo 3" to make you aware of your error in words.
I didn't say anything about respecs and leveling before you started the comparisons. You decided after I made comparisons as you were that it was stupid to make them. Seems like you're just unhappy about me punching holes into your arguments. So, I'll just do it more.
"The point was about what it takes to be able to play the entire game on one character....not what it takes to reach an arbitrary level."
This is a horrible comparison since many other games have far more content and keep raising the level cap. Considering this game hasn't had a level cap increase, we can say there should be a lot more end game for a game of 8 years than there is. Talking about level 40 in other games is not an arbitrary level. It's a very specific level. The same level as this game's cap.
"And yeah last year WoW made close to $3 billion dollars...that's not an exaggeration. [...] So yeah they put out more content updates than CO."
WoW isn't the only MMO. It's just the biggest. Level cap increased are not exclusive to WoW. Other MMOs also add more content to their games periodically. I suspect it is the industry standard to add in more content to retain / re-engage players. Especially since there are a vast number of Fantasy MMOs but very few Superhero ones.
In fact, I can also speculate that having nice QoL features like cheaper respecs are a competitive part of making MMOs. With CO's lack of competition, respecs could simply be Cryptic being lazy about adding nice things like that. Their competition keeps getting shut down. You put up with what Cryptic gives you or you go play DCUO.
"50g to redo all talents and specs. INSANE. 300g to redo most powers. CRAZY RIPOFF. Do they think we own gold plated toilets or something?!?! Since there is absolutely no reasonable way to get 300g, I'll destroy a character just to play around with new stuff."
Take your own advice? Not everyone is anything. Literally. Plus the other thing I said.
To point out how irrelevant what you said was to the cost of a retcon.
But you didn't. You made comparisons that were, by your own logic, ridiculous. How does comparing to how much "harder" it is to build up a toon matter for respec costs? This game is about customization, which very few other games can even compare to. Your counter argument to respecs has been to make bad comparisons to other games and make fun of all the people who think it's too expensive.
[at]riviania Member since Aug 2009
Either that, or he has no idea on how to use the word "literally".
When it comes to Cryptic games, I know for a fact that STO increased it's max level, from 50 to 60. I think even NWO increased their max level at one point (not sure though). CO, is the only game of theirs that did not. And frankly, that might be for the best given how the action bars are set up.
And yeah, due to the lack of competition, Cryptic can get away with having expensive retcons, which, is not really fair to the players. They make money off of other things in the C-Store, especially keys, not retcons. So, there is no real reason why they cannot lower the price of retcons. But, that is my opinion, and, despite this being a common complaint by players over the year, Cryptic has always said "Not going to happen."
I'm not an altaholic by any stretch of the word, and I'm fine with the game doing this because it actually has a system in place that makes it fun to create and play multiple characters. It's one of the main strengths that has kept me playing CO well beyond the time I invested in any other MMO, so to me it looks like a good idea that they keep the retcon costs in place.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
PARSER USAGE GUIDE: click here for an easy how-to ٩(๑･ิᴗ･ิ)۶٩(･ิᴗ･ิ๑)۶
Spectre beats Eido in an SG run: VIDEO HERE
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
My characters
if you're a pyromancer, going from firing twin streams of fire from your hands to hurling an explosive ball of fire requires no effort at all - but going from twin streams of fire to hurling arcs of lightning or calling down a rain of shards comprised of pure darkness, that's either gonna require some alterations to your genetic structure or bargaining with higher powers
of course, you can't set up a mechanic like that in an almost 9 year old game, so spending money is the next best thing
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
My characters
If the game is based around creating alts, then gearing them up shouldn't be taking months.
If the game *Isn't* based around creating alts, gearing up could take time... but for what purpose since there's no gearchecks ingame and gear that took months to get, isn't that much better then Heroics..
I've always been of the opinion that gear should be steppingstones, Merc, Heroic, Justice , Legion,
And the work you need to put in to attain the gear should increase equally, while the increase in your
characters performance should also increase proportionately compared to how much work went into getting that full set of Justice / Legion.
When it all comes down to it. I am still not a fan of having a game setting the rules for how fast
i can gear up by putting timelocks on everything...
Back in the good days when Hotspots were actually WORTH doing, i could gear up a new alt in 2 days by running hotspots on Epic difficulty for more SCR-rewards.. harder but more rewarding.
I never saw the problem with that.. still don't, and i will never understand why the nerfed Hotspots.
What's so bad with a character getting full Mercenary in 2 days !?, it took 6 hours of missiongrind.
But yeah, some games have skill trees where you have to buy skills in a certain order, here you get whatever, although there are SOME limits. Here you could get 3 fire skills, then use them as prereqs for an ICE skill.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
My characters
Getting max gear can take a long time, yes, as it should.
Whoever you are, be that person one hundred percent. Don't compromise on your identity.
Respecing would be 1000x more pleasant if it looked like the Hero Creator (neat list, powers have static slots) and you could simply rip out the powers you wanted to respec, even if it was 35g per power.
Why should getting max gearing take a long time?
Most games have chase gear to hunt down, but in CO it's all about the costume bits. Why have it take a long time to gear up when the chase items are cosmetics? Plus, CO is a super hero game, which seems like a perfect match for "power fantasy". What is wrong with the capacity to be OP sooner in a game where you're supposed to be totally super?
Plus, there's always the problem of gear taking a long time to get due to devs wanting to artificially extend the life of content. In CO's case, getting r9s takes a long time because Cryptic wants you to buy the upgrades in the cash shop. Neither of those reasons are positive for players.
[at]riviania Member since Aug 2009
Epic Stronghold
Block timing explained
It's not about what people want, it's what the game supports. There has never been and highly unlikely ever will be support for gear as a goal. There really are only 3 different gear sets: Leveling gear, Fresh 40, and Final Form. Two of those can be purchased with real money.
Chasing gear is another way of saying improving your character. In CO, that is done with costume bits and powers, not gear. Since you can simply skip over Heroic and Legion (which is bought not played for) to get the best gear in the game, there isn't even an argument for progression. Different people can't have different end game if it's not supported in the game itself. There is only one set of gear to "work towards" and then they need to re-roll to keep that gear chase going. That makes the end game alts which is power customization and costumes.
Having it take a long time to get a set of gear only delays the inevitable re-roll or quit. People wanting to work for max gear can do so whether it takes a long or short time. Why is taking a long time better for the players? Especially in CO with the lack of gear?
[at]riviania Member since Aug 2009
Epic Stronghold
Block timing explained
Simply put, you're doing it wrong. L2Altitis.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.