test content
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc

Eido Bug Tactical Solutions

So, we have identified the bug. We have established that it could be a while for a fix, if ever. So, let's establish new tactics to deal with it, so we can restart the daily takedowns. There have been some side comments in other threads regarding possible new tactics, but nothing solidified, so I wanted to make a thread dedicated to just that. No whining about broken stuff, how "hard" it is, or begging the devs for some fix, now, just solutions based on the current situation. Once a strategy is established and tested, it can be added to the stickied Cosmic/Eido threads.

I'll start. I still like the triple-stunner tactic. Three CCers, one assigned to each globe, labeled as "left", "middle", and "right." I see no reason that most CCers cannot handle the division of labor this way. If someone accidentally gets out of place, the other CC can just quickly swap. It would be even better if the CCs form a regular Team (in addition to TeamUp, of course) that way if one needed to quickly select another, the F2, F3, F4 team selection option can be used (which cannot be used in TeamUp). It also gives them the ability to easily speak amongst themselves, if needed, without cluttering up the Zone/Local chat.

That way, DPS and Tanker can just focus Eddy for every red spawn. If the reds are pumping damage, a healer could be assigned to help keep the CCers up. Put that healer in the CC Team, too. This is the only area of real weakness that I see.

Now, I do understand that, if other orbs/portals spawn while the Reds are up, that could cause a problem with splash damage. Therefore, we need to establish a "No AOEs on orbs/portals" policy. Yes, I know there will be some mistakes, but with the guardian CCers standing by, they can minimize the damage. Sure, some healing on Eddie might leak through sometimes, but still, I think we can keep it down small enough that we can continue to do fairly fast runs. And, as everyone gets more and more experience doing the new Edd, the mistake rate will drop off.

Yes, having 3 CCers instead of 1 will potentially lower the total DPS, but most CCers have other benefits, in addition to holds. Auras, buffs, debuffs, extra heals are all going to help contribute to overall DPS success. It may not make up for it totally, but considering some of the speed runs we used to do, even if it takes a bit longer, it will still be pretty fast.

I will go ahead and say that any strategy that requires mass adoption of changing tactics mid-fight is likely to be problematic. Lots of people do not read Zone or Local. Even for those who do, if there is much chatter, it could obscure directions. Even if everyone sees it, there will always be a few second delay for the leader to recognize which situation it is, calling out instructions, and everyone responding appropriately to those instructions. I designed this strategy to reduce the need for that time delay. In my strategy, the tactic for Reds stays the same, no matter what happens.

That is just a rough to start with. Make suggestions and changes and let's get this party (re)started!

- - - - -
SIGNATURE:
Used to be coach on the forums. Still @coach in game.

Comments

  • shadowolf505shadowolf505 Posts: 313 Arc User
    Nice suggestion for this. Another tactic is for everyone to spread during the red spawn in phase 3, where geysers will/most likely happen after the reds spawn then go back to Eido.​​
  • kamokamikamokami Posts: 1,347 Arc User

    That way, DPS and Tanker can just focus Eddy for every red spawn. If the reds are pumping damage, a healer could be assigned to help keep the CCers up. Put that healer in the CC Team, too. This is the only area of real weakness that I see.

    In my strategy, the tactic for Reds stays the same, no matter what happens.

    If I am understanding correctly, you are proposing that we go back to not killing reds and just focus Eido+Greens+Yellows the whole time? The real difficult part about that is not so much keeping CCers up, it's more keeping all the DPS from dying and losing form stacks etc. And just having 3 healers was usually not adequate. To guarantee this working I'd suggest having 5 healers....maybe 4 if they have amazing AoEs.

  • pwestolemynamepwestolemyname Posts: 684 Arc User
    kamokami said:

    That way, DPS and Tanker can just focus Eddy for every red spawn. If the reds are pumping damage, a healer could be assigned to help keep the CCers up. Put that healer in the CC Team, too. This is the only area of real weakness that I see.

    In my strategy, the tactic for Reds stays the same, no matter what happens.

    If I am understanding correctly, you are proposing that we go back to not killing reds and just focus Eido+Greens+Yellows the whole time? The real difficult part about that is not so much keeping CCers up, it's more keeping all the DPS from dying and losing form stacks etc. And just having 3 healers was usually not adequate. To guarantee this working I'd suggest having 5 healers....maybe 4 if they have amazing AoEs.

    Exactomundo! Do we normally carry about 3 healers? So, if we swapped up to 5 healers, with 3 CCers, we are looking at giving up 4 DPS slots from the current "murder the reds" strategy. We would probably have 3-4 more auras, so that would help make up for the DPS loss, but the debuffs and such that the extra healers/CCers bring. Seems doable to me. Might bring us up to 15 minute runs, instead of 10 minute runs, but still, that's better than no runs.
    - - - - -
    SIGNATURE:
    Used to be coach on the forums. Still @coach in game.
  • shadowolf505shadowolf505 Posts: 313 Arc User
    Yup, sounds good to me.​​
  • pantagruel01pantagruel01 Posts: 4,827 Arc User

    Exactomundo! Do we normally carry about 3 healers? So, if we swapped up to 5 healers, with 3 CCers, we are looking at giving up 4 DPS slots from the current "murder the reds" strategy. We would probably have 3-4 more auras, so that would help make up for the DPS loss, but the debuffs and such that the extra healers/CCers bring. Seems doable to me.

    That seems like more of a hassle than getting people to understand whether they should attack reds. The big problem with reds comes when Eido doesn't go into his healing mode, and either geysers interfere with CCing the reds, or greens/yellows spawn near the reds and killing them wakes up the reds, and going to a healing strategy doesn't solve either of those problems.
  • pwestolemynamepwestolemyname Posts: 684 Arc User

    Exactomundo! Do we normally carry about 3 healers? So, if we swapped up to 5 healers, with 3 CCers, we are looking at giving up 4 DPS slots from the current "murder the reds" strategy. We would probably have 3-4 more auras, so that would help make up for the DPS loss, but the debuffs and such that the extra healers/CCers bring. Seems doable to me.

    That seems like more of a hassle than getting people to understand whether they should attack reds. The big problem with reds comes when Eido doesn't go into his healing mode, and either geysers interfere with CCing the reds, or greens/yellows spawn near the reds and killing them wakes up the reds, and going to a healing strategy doesn't solve either of those problems.
    I mean, if we can get everyone to read and follow on-the-fly instructions, that would be great. In any case, we need to get a strategy set up so we can get back on the Eido train.
    - - - - -
    SIGNATURE:
    Used to be coach on the forums. Still @coach in game.
  • lezard21lezard21 Posts: 442 Arc User
    Anywho, I'm posting it on this topic cause it seems like a good enough place \o/

    There's multiple theories going on about players using specific powers and specs that might be causing Eidolon to freak the **** out. I don't think any of these are valid for simple stadistical reasons, ie., that player needs to be present on every single run we've done since Eido started bugging out, and has to be doing the exact same thing at the exact same time to trigger it. The only way Eido's behaviour might be player triggered is if the trigger happens to be something that is very popular among players and very spammable.

    I have 2 alternative theories to what is going on.

    1) Buff/Debuff cap. The main indicator we use to determine wether Eidolon is on CC mode or is active is the Bubble Buff on his bar. My theory is that there is a cap to how many buffs/debuffs a target can have and any overflow just doesn't apply. The Bubble Buff acts as a flag that when present causes Eidolon to stop attacking. If it doesn't apply, Eidolon just keeps attacking

    2) Hits not registering. Similar to what happens to kiga, when too much bullshit is being used (DoTs, HoTs, multiple hits per second attacks) you might notice that your attacks stop being registered(most easy to spot by your form stacks dropping) and so do Kiga's (Storm wireframe appearing but attack not triggering). If Eidolon's Bubble Buff is an attack that Eidolon applies on itself, it might be possible that if too much bullshit was going on at the time, the buff would fail to apply, causing Eidolon to stay in attack mode.

    An easy way to test if this might be the variables that are causing the bug, is to reduce the usage of stuff like Punji Stick Trap and other minor forms of DoTs during Eido, and when you see him starting his Hold animation to stop attacking for a few seconds.
    @lezard21
    Kaiser Behemoth, Ethereal Queen, Fenrir, Galen, Fujin, Madeen
  • pantagruel01pantagruel01 Posts: 4,827 Arc User
    Hits not registering with no more than 30 people in zone and the specific period we care about being at the end of an area paralyze doesn't seem very likely. Also, whatever this is, it started suddenly, so either a new bug was introduced or a new element was introduced.
  • pwestolemynamepwestolemyname Posts: 684 Arc User

    Hits not registering with no more than 30 people in zone and the specific period we care about being at the end of an area paralyze doesn't seem very likely. Also, whatever this is, it started suddenly, so either a new bug was introduced or a new element was introduced.

    I think of a review of the powers added/updated at the time that Eido started acting funny is in order. Does anyone remember the first time?
    - - - - -
    SIGNATURE:
    Used to be coach on the forums. Still @coach in game.
  • shadowolf505shadowolf505 Posts: 313 Arc User
    After the Fire revamp.
    I think of a review of the powers added/updated at the time that Eido started acting funny is in order. Does anyone remember the first time?
    ​​
  • lezard21lezard21 Posts: 442 Arc User
    Whatever the issue is I hope the devs take a look into it soon because it's a real shame to have content go to waste due to a bug.

    And if they have time they should also check what's going on with the Eidolon bug :^)
    @lezard21
    Kaiser Behemoth, Ethereal Queen, Fenrir, Galen, Fujin, Madeen
  • kamokamikamokami Posts: 1,347 Arc User
    edited February 13


    I think of a review of the powers added/updated at the time that Eido started acting funny is in order. Does anyone remember the first time?

    It was right after the winter event patch. We did an Eido the day before the patch and it was normal. Then patch hit, a week or so went by and the people who got tired of farming did the 1st Eido post-patch and it was all borked.
    Post edited by kamokami on
  • shadowolf505shadowolf505 Posts: 313 Arc User
    Which was after the fire revamp but that's a personal theory for me.​​
  • kamokamikamokami Posts: 1,347 Arc User
    edited February 14

    Which was after the fire revamp but that's a personal theory for me.​​

    Is there something useful about this comment? Between the fire revamp (Nov 21st) and the winter event (Dec 7th), everything worked fine.
  • pantagruel01pantagruel01 Posts: 4,827 Arc User
    edited February 14
    Did we attempt an Eido during the "confronts don't work" week? That was 12/7 to 12/14. I feel like we did and it didn't have any problems other than confronts not working.

    Oh, found a video from 12/17 with eido overlapping phases. https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/championsonline/#/discussion/comment/12795229, and not seeing any mentions in Mona's thread from the prior week, so I think it actually occurred as of the 12/14 patch.
  • kamokamikamokami Posts: 1,347 Arc User
    edited February 14

    Did we attempt an Eido during the "confronts don't work" week? That was 12/7 to 12/14. I feel like we did and it didn't have any problems other than confronts not working.

    I do remember 2 runs during that time specifically because we swapped to Main Tanks who had swapped their confronts for gamblers and DUCs. I don't recall there being issues during those runs.

    So we were actually fine until the 12/14 patch. The notes for that one seem pretty innocuous: Release Notes 12-14-2017
  • pantagruel01pantagruel01 Posts: 4,827 Arc User
    Checking Spinny's video, the overlapping phases in that video is not obviously the same bug (Eido dropped a hold, then dropped a rain of destruction while people were still held, but didn't spawn red orbs at all). It's possible it was the same bug but the orb spawn got aborted by the tank dying.

    The actual thread where we identified the bug seems to be the next week, see
    Lets talk about the Eido bug, which might make the relevant patch Release Notes 12/21/2017. Not that that looks any more suspicious, and there weren't a lot of Eido runs between 12/17 and Christmas.
  • kamokamikamokami Posts: 1,347 Arc User

    Checking Spinny's video, the overlapping phases in that video is not obviously the same bug (Eido dropped a hold, then dropped a rain of destruction while people were still held, but didn't spawn red orbs at all). It's possible it was the same bug but the orb spawn got aborted by the tank dying.

    The actual thread where we identified the bug seems to be the next week, see
    Lets talk about the Eido bug, which might make the relevant patch Release Notes 12/21/2017. Not that that looks any more suspicious, and there weren't a lot of Eido runs between 12/17 and Christmas.

    There is a note about that patch fixing something with Nightmare Clarence....was this also the time when Kiga started stepping down off his altar and walking over to people? I doubt that the Clarence would affect Eido but we have seen changes in one place affect others when it comes to cosmics. For example, back when changes were being made to baby dino in TA they affected mom's pathing in MI.
Sign In or Register to comment.