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Make all enemies/quest skull level?

reiwulfreiwulf Posts: 442 Arc User
what would you think if all enemies and quests were made skul level, so we could choose any quest and any zone to train whenever we wanted to? that would unclude opening vibora bay/monster island for newbies too.
the tec is already in game and I don't see why it couldn't work. the only big change they would need to make is for loot to be dependant on character's level instead of a per mission or per enemy.
I thik that alone would make leveling (not through alerts) MUCH more varied and also we could choose our own paths. if I make a vampire hero it makes much more sense to level it up in Vibora bay than in westside. same for a street level hero, or a cosmic/alien/divine kind of toon.
would you like that? yes or no? if no, why would you be against it?
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Comments

  • morigosamorigosa Posts: 642 Arc User
    They'd need to fix skull level first so that it actually works properly. Right now, a skull level enemy actually -has- a level, and spawns with HP appropriate to the level of whatever player triggered its spawning - meaning that if a low level player wanders by and causes the game to spawn a skull-level pack, that pack is easy pickings for a high level character due to low mob HP, while if this happens the other way around, a low level player can find themselves trapped in a slog against enemies that have several times as many hit points as they ought to.
  • shadowfang240shadowfang240 Posts: 821 Arc User
    enemies/loot in missions scale to your level in STO, as does the reward you choose at the end once you've completed it...so it should be possible here since CO uses the same engine

    the question then becomes 'would it be viable for a minuscule dev team to do?' since changing it would probably involve lots of code being changed as every mission would need to be altered individually​​
  • aesicaaesica Posts: 1,462 Arc User
    enemies/loot in missions scale to your level in STO, as does the reward you choose at the end once you've completed it...so it should be possible here since CO uses the same engine
    A much earlier, less-evolved version of the same engine. CO is the chimpanzee and STO is the human--similar, but what works for one may not work for the other.
    the question then becomes 'would it be viable for a minuscule dev team to do?' since changing it would probably involve lots of code being changed as every mission would need to be altered individually
    That depends entirely on how easy (or difficult) it is to batch replace things. For example, conducting a bulk search/replace all green quality primary offense quest rewards with a crate that, when obtained, auto-unpacks a level-appropriate green quality primary offense with ss-appropriate stats.​​
    (Hopefully) Useful CO Resources: HeroCreator (character planner), Blood Moon Map, and more (eventually, anyway).
  • shadowfang240shadowfang240 Posts: 821 Arc User
    level-dependant enemies/loot has been a thing since i started playing when STO was only 2 years old...at that point, the engine was barely different from its CO iteration, even though now it's wildly different

    i seriously doubt the capability isn't there

    as for batch-replacing code...most devs aren't really insightful enough to code things like that so pertinent bits of code can be mass-replaced later on down the line​​
  • pantagruel01pantagruel01 Posts: 4,228 Arc User
    CO can do level-dependent enemies/loot, that's the way the adventure packs and comic series work. However, I understand that the original (launch-era) missions are a nightmare to work with, so going through and updating them would be a lot of work.
  • avianosavianos Posts: 3,662 Arc User
    morigosa wrote: »
    They'd need to fix skull level first so that it actually works properly. Right now, a skull level enemy actually -has- a level, and spawns with HP appropriate to the level of whatever player triggered its spawning - meaning that if a low level player wanders by and causes the game to spawn a skull-level pack, that pack is easy pickings for a high level character due to low mob HP, while if this happens the other way around, a low level player can find themselves trapped in a slog against enemies that have several times as many hit points as they ought to.

    The nightmare invansion daily mobs are the greatest example of this​​
    A guy who use CO to make his characters playable but farms way to much to archieve that
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  • jojenmaihemjojenmaihem Posts: 97 Arc User
    Thats somenthing to take in mind... I'm tired to do the same Missions Over Rails with every new Hero, and thats why only level with Grab Alerts.

    Only we can hope the Devs after they done with the QoL of every Powerset can start doing this.
  • eviltwintwoeviltwintwo Posts: 208 Arc User
    edited May 11
    While this isn't a bad idea, I'm going to go with no. New players need time to get used to things; traditional, leveled enemies work in that case. However, I wonder why door missions aren't level-matching to begin with; most I've seen are set to a certain level.

    As for skull-level specifically, I agree with those who've said it would have its problems. However, if the devs get time to add an area to the already-existing zones (or adding another zone entirely), they might want to consider this. Think about it: the basic zones have certain level ranges in them. A zone that anyone can go into and fight effectively (regardless of level) would be great for anyone lvl 20 & up. (Before that they might not have the powers; skulls are not quite the same as normal mobs.)

    If it could be done to some degree, I'd be for it. But the traditional basic zones should probably largely stay the way they are.

    EDIT: One more thought. Perhaps anyone who already has a character of a certain level should be able to start in Millenium City or "Skull" City. Anyone with a level 40 especially should know to at least a fair degree the ins and outs of the game. That way casual players (new or not) could start in familiar territory while players thirsting for a little more could dive in and see if they can handle it. But again, would the devs have time to do this??
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Posts: 2,768 Arc User
    I think it'd work best for instanced content. Open world enemies should probably stay as-is.

    Honestly it'd be better to make rewards use level scaling. :/
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  • reiwulfreiwulf Posts: 442 Arc User
    no one said anything about changing storylines. new players would still probaly do things in order because quests send us from one place to another in the correct levels.
    natesig.jpg

  • darqaura2darqaura2 Posts: 748 Arc User
    reiwulf said:

    no one said anything about changing storylines. new players would still probaly do things in order because quests send us from one place to another in the correct levels.

    From what I"ve heard it's not storylines. The issue is getting the actual tech in missions to work with it since the original early missions apparently were not soundly built.
  • rtmartma Posts: 1,025 Arc User
    I'm curious what else does this Skull Tech do? increased stats? or just Level scaling?
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    I take this quote from a review that I agree with.

    "customisation is so linear; everyone is after the optimal dps:survivability ratio with 0 reliance on other players = autonomous gameplay... Players don't need each other anymore... which in my opinion is a bad thing."
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Posts: 2,768 Arc User
    rtma said:

    I'm curious what else does this Skull Tech do? increased stats? or just Level scaling?

    Level scaling, but apparently mob HP is set when spawned, so not all stats.
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  • rtmartma Posts: 1,025 Arc User
    edited May 21

    Level scaling, but apparently mob HP is set when spawned, so not all stats.

    Sounds broken, should fix that.
    Want to get to know me a bit better, Click me and take a read of My Dragon Profile Page, it's a bit dated but still relevant.

    I take this quote from a review that I agree with.

    "customisation is so linear; everyone is after the optimal dps:survivability ratio with 0 reliance on other players = autonomous gameplay... Players don't need each other anymore... which in my opinion is a bad thing."
  • magpieuk2014magpieuk2014 Posts: 821 Arc User
    It doesn't affect instanced missions, however. "The Brains Behind The Breakout" in Westside contains skull level enemies, but as they only spawn inside the instance made by that player, they are always the "right" level.

    Funnilly enough, though (having played the recently revised OMs)... skull level isn't the perfect solution the way it currently works. A base skull level enemy is still easy enough - it's only when they become Tough level that they get some grit (and then it's a bit too much, tbh, almost double the HP). I'm never been sure whether they scale with the difficulty level of the player (wish they did).
  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 10,611 Arc User
    Add to this idea "Make all level-up instances soloable". Yes, they are technically soloable, but I mean actually tune them to remove any existing (2+) requirements. I say this because if they make the leveling path completely freeform then that makes it even less likely that players will be in the same area to end up teaming for certain instanced missions and lairs - currently it's less likely due to small number of players that even want to level up via missions, throw even more unlikely on top of that with freeform progression and the missions involved really need to be absolutely soloable by anyone, regardless of skill.
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  • magpieuk2014magpieuk2014 Posts: 821 Arc User
    Shame that people don't want to level up via missions, tbh. You miss half the fun, that way: I always run my characters to 40 through at least one of the mission chains (Vibora/MI, possibly an Adventure Pack) and it's much more fun than getting there through Grab Alert #250. If all levelling missions were skull level then it would open the option for the game to offer you new mission arcs to complete, at any time: doubt anyone is ever going to go through the old code to do that, though!
  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 10,611 Arc User
    Eh. I've been doing missions on my new munitions character as I've been leveling them, even holding off queing for Grab constantly. It'd be more exciting if they didn't all die so fast and maybe did something other than gently pewpew me. Running up to a few NPCs and holding down an aoe isn't exciting content. I keep thinking "these mobs don't need to be this limp to be soloable".
    5tCNJWa.jpg
    Deal with it.
  • pantagruel01pantagruel01 Posts: 4,228 Arc User
    edited May 22
    rtma said:

    I'm curious what else does this Skull Tech do? increased stats? or just Level scaling?

    Skull tech applies a damage modifier for relative level. Skull tech enemies have an inherent (but hidden) level, and if a critter has an inherent level of 20 but is skull tech, a level 40 has a damage penalty when attacking that critter, and the critter has a damage bonus vs the level 40. Without skull tech, the level 40 has no penalty, and the level 20 actually has a damage penalty for attacking the level 40. In theory a level 20 skull tech mob and a level 40 mob should be identical difficulty for a level 40 character, in reality it doesn't work that way.
  • aiqaaiqa Posts: 2,240 Arc User
    Generic level scaling is just a complicated fix for a problem that is created intentionally. It never works perfect, and if a level 100 player character should still take some notice when being attacked by 50 level 5 mobs, it would have been far easier and cleaner to not make a level 100 character so much stronger than a level 5.
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