Crowd Control Builds

kamokami

Want to start a thread where we can list the various options for Crowd Control (CCer) builds. Will also link here from the Tips for Giant Monsters guide (see my signature).

These builds are actually also some of the best offtank setups for Teleios Ascendant. The builds posted below have been tested and proven to work at helping Kigatilik, Ape, and TA runs succeed. Some of them are even great at Eido.

Would love to get everyone's thoughts on how to improve them and what other options or ideas might be out there.

kamokami

From @pantagruel01

PowerHouse (Link to this build)

Name: Phantasma

Archetype: Freeform

Super Stats:
Level 6: Constitution (Primary)
Level 10: Presence (Secondary)
Level 15: Recovery (Secondary)

Talents:
Level 1: Divinity
Level 6: Ascetic
Level 9: Lasting Impression
Level 12: Shrug It Off
Level 15: Quick Recovery
Level 18: Showmanship
Level 21: Wordly

Powers:
Level 1: Psi Lash
Level 1: Ego Blast (Mind Opener, Crippling Challenge)
Level 6: Ego Sprites (Rank 2, Slave Mentality, Challenging Strikes)
Level 8: Telepathic Reverberation
Level 11: Invulnerability (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 14: Ego Sleep (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 17: Manipulator
Level 20: Conviction (Rank 2)
Level 23: Ebon Void (Rank 2, Voracious Darkness)
Level 26: Telekinetic Maelstrom (Rank 2, Expansive Intellect)
Level 29: Bionic Shielding (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 32: Masterful Dodge
Level 35: Rebirth
Level 38: Ego Placate (Svengali's Guile)

Travel Powers:
Level 6: Superspeed (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 35: Teleportation (Rank 2)

Specializations:
Constitution: Unyielding (2/2)
Constitution: Tough (3/3)
Constitution: Resilient (2/2)
Constitution: Quick Healing (1/3)
Constitution: Armored (2/2)
Sentinel: Torment (2/2)
Sentinel: Sentinel Aura (3/3)
Sentinel: Moment of Need (1/3)
Sentinel: Wither (2/2)
Sentinel: Genesis (2/2)
Protector: Fortified Gear (3/3)
Protector: Unrelenting (2/2)
Protector: Bulwark (2/2)
Protector: Defensive Expertise (3/3)
Mastery: Sentinel Mastery (1/1)

kamokami

Updated @spinnytop CC build along with details here:
http://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/championsonline#/discussion/1205719/telepathy-crowd-control-tank-i-e-kiga-dog-solo-cc-tank/p1?new=1

kamokami

From @kamokami (me)

Updated based on my latest build. This is a dual passive build.....which I normally do not recommend but it works very well in this case. Start off in Tank role with Invuln, then once you have built up threat and have 8 stacks of Manipulator, swap to support role to provide your team with an excellent buff + increase your hold duration.

I run 2 sets of gear:
- For Tank Role + Invuln, I have 272 CON and 571 PRE.
- For Support Role + AoAC, I have 103 CON and 748 PRE.

Some options to consider swapping include taking AoPM (great all around) instead of AoAC (a bit more advanced). Taser Arrow (paralyze) instead of Sonic Arrow (stun). Or either the Protector (debuff/toughness) or Overseer (debuff) spec trees instead of Sentry (hold duration/toughness).

ERMAHGERD ERM A FLERER - Freeform

Super Stats
Level 6: Presence (Primary)
Level 10: Constitution (Secondary)
Level 15: Recovery (Secondary)

Talents
Level 1: Divinity (Con: 12, Pre: 12)
Level 6: Intimidating (Pre: 8)
Level 9: Shrug It Off (Con: 5, Pre: 5)
Level 12: Quick Recovery (Con: 5, Rec: 5)
Level 15: Enduring (Con: 8)
Level 18: Survival Training (Dex: 3, Con: 3, Pre: 3, Rec: 2, End: 2)
Level 21: Lasting Impression (Pre: 5, Rec: 5)

Powers
Level 1: Psi Lash
Level 1: Ego Sleep (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 6: Telepathic Reverberation
Level 8: Eldritch Shield (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 11: Mental Leech (Challenge!)
Level 14: Bionic Shielding (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 17: Masterful Dodge
Level 20: Conviction (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 23: Thunderclap (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 26: Manipulator
Level 29: Entangling Mesh
Level 32: Invulnerability (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 35: Sonic Arrow (Rank 2, Rank 3, Challenge!)
Level 38: Aura of Arcane Clarity (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Adv. Points: 36/36

Travel Powers
Level 6: Athletics (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 35: Teleportation

Specializations
Presence: Repurpose (3/3)
Presence: Dominion (2/2)
Presence: Grandeur (1/3)
Presence: Force of Will (2/2)
Presence: Vulnerability (2/2)
Sentinel: Torment (2/2)
Sentinel: Sentinel Aura (3/3)
Sentinel: Moment of Need (1/3)
Sentinel: Wither (2/2)
Sentinel: Genesis (2/2)
Sentry: Fortified Gear (3/3)
Sentry: Sentry Aura (3/3)
Sentry: Stalling Tactics (3/3)
Sentry: Reinforce (1/2)
Mastery: Sentinel Mastery (1/1)

kamokami

And a new battle tested build from @roughbearmattach - works super well! See the notes about how he uses it here: LINK

PowerHouse (Link to this build)

Name: Sleight of Mind

Archetype: Freeform

Super Stats:
Level 6: Intelligence (Primary)
Level 10: Constitution (Secondary)
Level 15: Presence (Secondary)

Talents:
Level 1: Inhuman
Level 6: Enduring
Level 9: Brilliant
Level 12: Healthy Mind
Level 15: Field Ops Training
Level 18: Jack of All Trades
Level 21: Covert Ops Training

Powers:
Level 1: Psi Lash
Level 1: Manipulator
Level 6: Ego Sleep (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 8: Ego Sprites (Rank 2, Rank 3, Challenging Strikes)
Level 11: Telekinetic Shield (Rank 2, Rank 3, Telekinetic Reinforcement)
Level 14: Aura of Radiant Protection (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 17: Aura of Primal Majesty (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 20: Telekinetic Maelstrom (Rank 2, Expansive Intellect)
Level 23: Ego Placate (Svengali's Guile)
Level 26: Conviction (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 29: Protection Field (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 32: Rebirth
Level 35: Masterful Dodge
Level 38: Telepathic Reverberation

Travel Powers:
Level 6: Teleportation
Level 35:

Specializations:
Intelligence: Enlightened (3/3)
Intelligence: Battle of Wits (3/3)
Intelligence: Tinkering (2/2)
Intelligence: Expertise (2/2)
Sentry: Fortified Gear (3/3)
Sentry: Sentry Aura (3/3)
Sentry: Stalling Tactics (3/3)
Sentry: Persevere (1/2)
Protector: Fortified Gear (3/3)
Protector: Unrelenting (2/2)
Protector: Bulwark (2/2)
Protector: Defensive Expertise (3/3)
Mastery: Intelligence Mastery (1/1)

cptmassive1

Dog Tanking for Dummies

It pretty much has to be acted out by hand puppets if I am doing it. I get distracted wayyyy too easily. If I'm not supposed to post here, feel free to delete and I can put it elsewhere.

The toon I converted to dog tanking was originally a CC/healer and I messed everything up trying to make him just a dog tank, so I went back to his original idea and just replaced the single target holds with ego sleep. The purpose of this guy is to control tank dogs (which thanks to KK's/Roughbear's help he can now do), heal and buff dps at dino and cc hearts/heal at ape.

Forgive not using Powerhouse -- I don't like the layout. This is not a leveling build anyway and you can take things close to any order.

PRE* - CON - REC
PRE 0221, 1022
Sentry 2033, 0002
Sentinel 1033, 0300
PRE Mastery

Psi-Lash
Thunderclap R2+collateral dmg. (MUCH easier than TK Maelstrom - thanks KK)
Ego Sleep R3
Ego Sprites+Slave Ment. (optional, basically only for scoring on kiga)
Arcane Vitality R3 (optional, heal)
Conviction R3 (with AoAC cooldown is <4 sec., optional or some other self heal)
TK Shield R3+adv
Telepathic Reverb (optional, mostly for spamming ego sprites)
Ascension (optional - for holds at dino and occasional heal buff)
Unbreakable (for kiga storms - with AoAC it is under a minute cooldown)

Passives: Invulnerability R3, AoAC R3
Forms: Manipulator R3, Compassion
Travel: Some increased land speed for pulling, some flight power

Psionic Surge Device - for pulling (Bear's idea)
Demonic Flesh Graft - for last 1/3 health bar kiga storms - alt. with Unbreakable

I'm not stacking Manipulator anymore either so no Entangling Mesh needed for this build. I just got Manip. at R3 and don't have to worry about it. On the PTS R2 worked reliably but sometimes I had only ~5 seconds sleep left on the timer when the resistance ran out (hold res. stack timing LOVES to cheat) so I am padding this one. As I need PRE for the healing I can't go the INT PSS route like Pantagruel did.

After the initial pull, switch to AoAC/support and the sleep is over 50 seconds without having to worry about activating/maintaining anything. Just wait for the next stun or spam Ego Sprites if you like. I always got messed up by the timers and now all I have to do is watch the timer, period, before re-stunning sometime in the last 5 seconds of the timer -- which is ambiguous in its countdown and drove me crazy. And I get to feel useful on the other cosmics as well and not worry about scoring due to mad heals.

riverocean

Hmm so an AOAC build w/R3 Manipulator.

Very interesting.

I'm curious if any of the older builds from June still work post manipulator nerfs.

roughbearmattach

I should post a newer version of my Dog Controller, since I swapped AoRP for PFF, and made a few other minor changes (like adding Slave Mentality to my Ego Sprites).
I grab the dogs initially with PFF in tank mode (especially at start of phase 2), and then switch to Support with AoPM after sleeping the dogs the first time. This allows my healing and shield effects (protection field, slave mentality, Sentinel Aura) to keep me alive during that last round of snowstorms, as Kiga's health is in the last bar.

kamokami

roughbearmattach said:

I should post a newer version of my Dog Controller, since I swapped AoRP for PFF, and made a few other minor changes (like adding Slave Mentality to my Ego Sprites).
I grab the dogs initially with PFF in tank mode (especially at start of phase 2), and then switch to Support with AoPM after sleeping the dogs the first time. This allows my healing and shield effects (protection field, slave mentality, Sentinel Aura) to keep me alive during that last round of snowstorms, as Kiga's health is in the last bar.

sounds great! Post it

kamokami

Just want to quickly update this as a lot of people have been having trouble with Kiga dogs. The build I posted above (FLERER's setup) still works great. Consistently pulls and keeps dogs controlled without sync issues.

pantagruel01

I haven't changed my build, just needed to get used to the new way stuff works.

pwestolemyname

Well, this is mine. It is an attempt at a CC/DPS. I am not sure I would really recommend it, it is a little tough to play. But, it is fun and useful regular content. The main issue when CCing dogs (other than user error) is staying alive through the snowstorms. Even with a decent Con, that blizzard cuts right through.

Vice - Freeform

Super Stats
Level 6: Presence (Primary)
Level 10: Ego (Secondary)
Level 15: Constitution (Secondary)

Talents
Level 1: Mind over Matter (Ego: 12, Pre: 12)
Level 6: Ascetic (Con: 5, Ego: 5)
Level 9: Lasting Impression (Pre: 5, Rec: 5)
Level 12: Shrug It Off (Con: 5, Pre: 5)
Level 15: Quick Recovery (Con: 5, Rec: 5)
Level 18: Showmanship (Ego: 5, Pre: 5)
Level 21: Wordly (Ego: 5, Rec: 5)

Powers
Level 1: Psi Lash
Level 1: Ego Sprites (Slave Mentality, Challenge!)
Level 6: Ego Sleep (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 8: Manipulator
Level 11: Telepathic Reverberation
Level 14: Mental Storm (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 17: Ego Storm (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 20: Masterful Dodge
Level 23: Telekinetic Assault (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 26: Telekinetic Maelstrom (Rank 2, Inner Peace)
Level 29: Aura of Primal Majesty (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 32: Arcane Vitality (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 35: Ego Form (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 38: Force Shield (Force Sheathe)
Adv. Points: 36/36

Travel Powers
Level 6: Superspeed
Level 35: Flight

Specializations
Presence: Dominion (2/2)
Presence: Grandeur (3/3)
Presence: Moment of Glory (3/3)
Presence: Force of Will (2/2)
Guardian: Fortified Gear (3/3)
Guardian: Ruthless (2/2)
Guardian: Retribution (2/2)
Guardian: The Best Defense (3/3)
Vindicator: Aggressive Stance (2/2)
Vindicator: Merciless (3/3)
Vindicator: Focused Strikes (3/3)
Vindicator: Modified Gear (2/2)
Mastery: Presence Mastery (1/1)

jaazaniah1

Just curious. Could something like this do the job? Trying to come up with something that could be fun and useful in other than a couple situations.

(Unnamed Build) - Freeform

Super Stats
Level 6: Presence (Primary)
Level 10: Constitution (Secondary)
Level 15: Intelligence (Secondary)

Talents
Level 1: The Witch (Con: 10, Int: 8, Pre: 10, Rec: 10)
Level 6: Healthy Mind (Con: 5, Int: 5)
Level 9: Diplomatic (Int: 5, Pre: 5)
Level 12: Shrug It Off (Con: 5, Pre: 5)
Level 15: Showmanship (Ego: 5, Pre: 5)
Level 18: Lasting Impression (Pre: 5, Rec: 5)
Level 21: Command Training (Int: 3, Ego: 3, Pre: 3, Rec: 3)

Powers
Level 1: Psi Lash
Level 1: Ego Blast (Rank 2, Mind Opener)
Level 6: Ego Sleep (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 8: Telepathic Reverberation
Level 11: Night Warrior (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 14: Invulnerability (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 17: Ego Sprites (Rank 2, Challenge!)
Level 20: Ego Storm (Rank 2, Malevolent Manifestation)
Level 23: Manipulator
Level 26: Life Essence (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 29: Resurgence
Level 32: Conviction (Rank 2)
Level 35: Telekinetic Shield (Rank 2, Rank 3, Telekinetic Reinforcement)
Level 38: Mental Storm
Adv. Points: 36/36

Travel Powers
Level 6: Athletics (Rank 2)
Level 35: Hoverboard (Rank 2)

Specializations
Presence: Selfless Ally (1/2)
Presence: Dominion (2/2)
Presence: Grandeur (3/3)
Presence: Force of Will (2/2)
Presence: Vulnerability (2/2)
Sentinel: Torment (2/2)
Sentinel: Sentinel Aura (3/3)
Sentinel: Moment of Need (3/3)
Sentinel: Wither (2/2)
Sentry: Fortified Gear (3/3)
Sentry: Sentry Aura (2/3)
Sentry: Stalling Tactics (3/3)
Sentry: Reinforce (2/2)
Mastery: Sentinel Mastery (1/1)

carrionbaggage

jaazaniah1 said:

Just curious. Could something like this do the job?

Yep, that'll work.

You'll likely be shimmying back-and-forth a bit to get into Ego Sprites range, then out of it for Malevolent Manifestation; but it's certainly doable if you're mindful of your distance.

I'd recommend Slave Mentality over Rank 2 in Ego Sprites. The extra health ticks add up during the Storm DoTs. If you're looking to self-pull the dogs, I'd switch Resurgence to Masterful Dodge and cram an Avoidance Core into your gear; or run a gear swap-set that focuses on Avoidance. Carrying a Rejuvenating Formula stack can help offset the loss of Resurgence when something spikes you.

If your Sleep time is already sufficient, you could drop Sentry for a different tree if you prefer. I'm not sure how your timers look with your gear.

If you're running a Justice set, I would opt for Repurpose over Selfless Ally and/or Grandeur.

pantagruel01

jaazaniah1 said:

Just curious. Could something like this do the job?

Adding manipulator stacks with ego storm is a bit of a hassle, though it does work. You might use mental leech instead of ego sprites so you can keep a distance, or you can swap ego storm for a (non-damaging)root or confuse.

jaazaniah1

I should note that this is all theory crafting so far. The character I would try this with is still only 15 (but who knows where she will go with double XP running now). I don't think I want to try to self pull dogs. That's getting a bit to specialized. I'm thinking that with non-damaging Life Essence I wouldn't need slave mentality for sprites. I'm kind of liking the idea of Mental Leech instead of sprites. Maybe more like this:

(Unnamed Build) - Freeform

Super Stats
Level 6: Presence (Primary)
Level 10: Constitution (Secondary)
Level 15: Intelligence (Secondary)

Talents
Level 1: The Witch (Con: 10, Int: 8, Pre: 10, Rec: 10)
Level 6: Healthy Mind (Con: 5, Int: 5)
Level 9: Diplomatic (Int: 5, Pre: 5)
Level 12: Shrug It Off (Con: 5, Pre: 5)
Level 15: Showmanship (Ego: 5, Pre: 5)
Level 18: Lasting Impression (Pre: 5, Rec: 5)
Level 21: Command Training (Int: 3, Ego: 3, Pre: 3, Rec: 3)

Powers
Level 1: Psi Lash
Level 1: Ego Blast (Rank 2, Mind Opener)
Level 6: Ego Sleep (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 8: Telepathic Reverberation
Level 11: Night Warrior (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 14: Invulnerability (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 17: Mental Leech (Rank 2, Rank 3, Challenge!)
Level 20: Ego Surge (Nimble Mind)
Level 23: Manipulator
Level 26: Life Essence (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 29: Resurgence
Level 32: Conviction (Rank 2)
Level 35: Telekinetic Shield (Rank 2, Rank 3, Telekinetic Reinforcement)
Level 38: Entangling Mesh
Adv. Points: 36/36

Travel Powers
Level 6: Athletics (Rank 2)
Level 35: Hoverboard (Rank 2)

Specializations
Presence: Selfless Ally (1/2)
Presence: Dominion (2/2)
Presence: Grandeur (3/3)
Presence: Force of Will (2/2)
Presence: Vulnerability (2/2)
Sentinel: Torment (2/2)
Sentinel: Sentinel Aura (3/3)
Sentinel: Moment of Need (3/3)
Sentinel: Wither (2/2)
Sentry: Fortified Gear (3/3)
Sentry: Sentry Aura (2/3)
Sentry: Stalling Tactics (3/3)
Sentry: Reinforce (2/2)
Mastery: Sentinel Mastery (1/1)

pwestolemyname

jaazaniah1 said:

Just curious. Could something like this do the job? Trying to come up with something that could be fun and useful in other than a couple situations.

I'm sure it could dog CC, but I'm not sure what sort of "fun and useful in other than a couple situations" you are looking for with this build. Your DPS is going to be pretty low and your tankiness is going to be mediocre, at best (I tell you this from experience). If you are taking Inv just for self-pulling, I recommend just dumping it and let a tank pull. That has become the norm, anyway, and tanks are ready to do it.

If you want to be able to off-tank in non-CC content, I recommend Defiance, instead of Invul. Put Challenge on one or two powers. Drop Night Warrior and grab an AD. If you want to off-DPS, grab a poison attack, so you can proc the bonus heal on Life Essence

carrionbaggage

I wouldn't recommend dropping Mental Storm from the build. Barring a re-killing of the dogs, the perma-lockdown method is usually necessary once dog agro becomes shifty after a team wipe. Sometimes you can rack up enough threat to regain the dogs' attention before the first Sleep expires, but it's not always reliable.

Stacked Mental Leech does offer better self-healing compared to Slave Mentality. But if you want to use your character to offtank other content, having a cooldown on your only Challenge power can be problematic.

pantagruel01

pwestolemyname said:

If you want to be able to off-tank in non-CC content, I recommend Defiance, instead of Invul.

I don't. Defiance only outperforms invulnerability against extremely high damage attacks, which usually isn't the situation for offtanking.

kamokami

A lot of the dog sync issues can be resolved by having you forcibly wake them all up at the same time *before* they wake up on their own.

You don't even need to wake them up with a stun....you can use any AoE power that hits them all at once....they begin howling together and you immediately charge sleep as always.

For myself, I have found Thunderclap with adv (it does have a stun) to be the least user-error inducing "wake up" power.

h4forums

I think it would be nice to have the alexandrafreya and the dakrushmor cc tanks in here as well for completeness!

yinjeigh

This is one I built after reading this thread. It may seem like a strange build, but the concept is music-based Sentai. He has Music Auras and a Microphone that doubles as a Sword, which explains the HW powers and Str stats. The Str Spec also provides a sturdiness that allows me to tank without putting in too much work. NOTE: I did not build this for leveling purposes, it was made on a level 40 character. After testing with a friend, I can confirm that it works for CCing both as an Offtank and for Kiga/Qwyji!


PowerHouse (Link to this build)http://powerhouse.nullware.com/powerhouse.html?v=13&amp;n=MusiClash Red&amp;d=116746DEYWhX1B0F000F40KFA03G70O9D03F7033705J503FI00G801DM00QG01EC00IM0311Cf2xM90rWq

Name: MusiClash Red

Archetype: Freeform

Super Stats:
Level 6: Strength (Primary)
Level 10: Presence (Secondary)
Level 15: Recovery (Secondary)

Talents:
Level 1: Finesse
Level 6: Intimidating
Level 9: Lasting Impression
Level 12: Impressive Physique
Level 15: Quick Recovery
Level 18: Showmanship
Level 21: Command Training

Powers:
Level 1: Psi Lash
Level 1: Ego Sprites (Slave Mentality, Challenge!)
Level 6: Ego Sleep (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 8: Telepathic Reverberation
Level 11: Invulnerability (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 14: Force Shield (Rank 2, Force Sheathe)
Level 17: Manipulator (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 20: Ego Storm
Level 23: Decimate (Nailed to the Ground, Challenge!)
Level 26: Conviction (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 29: Annihilate (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 32: Masterful Dodge
Level 35: Resurgence (Rank 2)
Level 38: Power Chord (Rank 2, Rank 3)

Travel Powers:
Level 6: Displacement Acrobatics (Rank 2)
Level 35: Jet Boots

Specializations:
Strength: Swole (3/3)
Strength: Aggression (2/2)
Strength: Brutality (2/2)
Strength: Juggernaut (3/3)
Sentinel: Torment (2/2)
Sentinel: Sentinel Aura (3/3)
Sentinel: Genesis (2/2)
Sentinel: Wither (2/2)
Sentinel: Rejuvenate (1/3)
Protector: Fortified Gear (3/3)
Protector: Unrelenting (2/2)
Protector: Bulwark (2/2)
Protector: Defensive Expertise (3/3)
Mastery: Protector Mastery (1/1)

alexandrafreya

h4forums said:

I think it would be nice to have the alexandrafreya and the dakrushmor cc tanks in here as well for completeness!

Dievertje has had afew changes awhile back I thought I would update with that (Most of the changes where actually with gear) I also now use Defiance (I use a Supercharger pre pull to stack it)

Dievertje - Freeform

Super Stats
Level 6: Presence (Primary)
Level 10: Constitution (Secondary)
Level 15: Dexterity (Secondary)

Talents
Level 1: Divinity (Con: 12, Pre: 12)
Level 6: Acrobat (Dex: 5, Con: 5)
Level 9: Finesse (Dex: 5, Pre: 5)
Level 12: Shrug It Off (Con: 5, Pre: 5)
Level 15: Survival Training (Dex: 3, Con: 3, Pre: 3, Rec: 2, End: 2)
Level 18: Prodigy (Pre: 5, End: 5)
Level 21: Boundless Reserves (Con: 5, End: 5)

Powers
Level 1: Psi Lash
Level 1: Ego Sprites (Rank 2, Slave Mentality, Challenge!)
Level 6: Mental Leech (Rank 2, Rank 3, Challenge!)
Level 8: Manipulator
Level 11: Mind Drain (Rank 2, Deplete, Challenge!)
Level 14: Telepathic Reverberation
Level 17: Ego Sleep (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 20: Mind Lock
Level 23: Telekinetic Maelstrom (Rank 2, Inner Peace)
Level 26: Telekinetic Shield (Rank 2, Rank 3, Telekinetic Reinforcement)
Level 29: Circle of Primal Dominion (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 32: Defiance (Rank 2)
Level 35: Masterful Dodge
Level 38: Compassion
Adv. Points: 36/36

Travel Powers
Level 6: Acrobatics (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 35: Teleportation

Specializations
Presence: Dominion (2/2)
Presence: Grandeur (3/3)
Presence: Moment of Glory (3/3)
Presence: Force of Will (2/2)
Warden: Fortified Gear (3/3)
Warden: Ruthless (2/2)
Warden: Elusive (2/2)
Warden: The Best Defense (3/3)
Sentinel: Torment (2/2)
Sentinel: Sentinel Aura (3/3)
Sentinel: Moment of Need (3/3)
Sentinel: Genesis (2/2)
Mastery: Sentinel Mastery (1/1)

hemslord

kamokami said:

From @kamokami (me)

PowerHouse (Link to this build)

Name: ERMAHGERD ERM A FLERER (the angry flower)

Archetype: Freeform

Super Stats:
Level 6: Intelligence (Primary)
Level 10: Constitution (Secondary)
Level 15: Presence (Secondary)

..........

Sorry to sort of necro this thread, but instead of opening a fresh one it made more sense to build upon this instead. I'm currently levelling up a character using the above quoted build and finding it extremely effective in general content whilst using heirloom gear. I'm very surprised at the ease of holding aggro, but then again I'm not playing with end game geared players most of the time.

Anyway, one thing I'm thinking about is the optimal gear to get for this sort of build. At first I thought it would be a simple Con stacking job, but realised that I would actually need to push both Int and Pres in order to get the best Hold strength for Cosmic content. How are people building theirs currently?

As far as the secondary bonuses for gear, I was thinking + bonus healing and + Cooldown Reduction. I'm guessing the + threat doesn't really matter for cosmics in terms of a CCer.

Finally, I'm looking into the different devices I'll be using and was hoping somebody could point me in the right direction to acquire some of them. One of the devices will be Psionic Accelerator (assuming this is the cone hold I'm thinking of), and the other is device version of Ego Hold (not sure what this one is called).

kamokami

hemslord said:

Sorry to sort of necro this thread, but instead of opening a fresh one it made more sense to build upon this instead. I'm currently levelling up a character using the above quoted build and finding it extremely effective in general content whilst using heirloom gear. I'm very surprised at the ease of holding aggro, but then again I'm not playing with end game geared players most of the time.

Anyway, one thing I'm thinking about is the optimal gear to get for this sort of build. At first I thought it would be a simple Con stacking job, but realised that I would actually need to push both Int and Pres in order to get the best Hold strength for Cosmic content. How are people building theirs currently?

As far as the secondary bonuses for gear, I was thinking + bonus healing and + Cooldown Reduction. I'm guessing the + threat doesn't really matter for cosmics in terms of a CCer.

NP, it's totally relevant. I've updated the build and included some notes on stats. Here you go:

kamokami said:

From @kamokami (me)

Updated based on my latest build. This is a dual passive build.....which I normally do not recommend but it works very well in this case. Start off in Tank role with Invuln, then once you have built up threat and have 8 stacks of Manipulator, swap to support role to provide your team with an excellent buff + increase your hold duration.

I run 2 sets of gear:
- For Tank Role + Invuln, I have 272 CON and 571 PRE.
- For Support Role + AoAC, I have 103 CON and 748 PRE.

Some options to consider swapping include taking AoPM (great all around) instead of AoAC (a bit more advanced). Taser Arrow (paralyze) instead of Sonic Arrow (stun). Or either the Protector (debuff/toughness) or Overseer (debuff) spec trees instead of Sentry (hold duration/toughness).

ERMAHGERD ERM A FLERER - Freeform

Super Stats
Level 6: Presence (Primary)
Level 10: Constitution (Secondary)
Level 15: Recovery (Secondary)

Talents
Level 1: Divinity (Con: 12, Pre: 12)
Level 6: Intimidating (Pre: 8)
Level 9: Shrug It Off (Con: 5, Pre: 5)
Level 12: Quick Recovery (Con: 5, Rec: 5)
Level 15: Enduring (Con: 8)
Level 18: Survival Training (Dex: 3, Con: 3, Pre: 3, Rec: 2, End: 2)
Level 21: Lasting Impression (Pre: 5, Rec: 5)

Powers
Level 1: Psi Lash
Level 1: Ego Sleep (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 6: Telepathic Reverberation
Level 8: Eldritch Shield (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 11: Mental Leech (Challenge!)
Level 14: Bionic Shielding (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 17: Masterful Dodge
Level 20: Conviction (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 23: Thunderclap (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 26: Manipulator
Level 29: Entangling Mesh
Level 32: Invulnerability (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 35: Sonic Arrow (Rank 2, Rank 3, Challenge!)
Level 38: Aura of Arcane Clarity (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Adv. Points: 36/36

Travel Powers
Level 6: Athletics (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 35: Teleportation

Specializations
Presence: Repurpose (3/3)
Presence: Dominion (2/2)
Presence: Grandeur (1/3)
Presence: Force of Will (2/2)
Presence: Vulnerability (2/2)
Sentinel: Torment (2/2)
Sentinel: Sentinel Aura (3/3)
Sentinel: Moment of Need (1/3)
Sentinel: Wither (2/2)
Sentinel: Genesis (2/2)
Sentry: Fortified Gear (3/3)
Sentry: Sentry Aura (3/3)
Sentry: Stalling Tactics (3/3)
Sentry: Reinforce (1/2)
Mastery: Sentinel Mastery (1/1)

hemslord said:

Finally, I'm looking into the different devices I'll be using and was hoping somebody could point me in the right direction to acquire some of them. One of the devices will be Psionic Accelerator (assuming this is the cone hold I'm thinking of), and the other is device version of Ego Hold (not sure what this one is called).

I just use Psionic and a bunch of shields like Nimbus and a heal potion

kamokami

This is the battle-tested Eido version of my CCer / Offtank and what I currently play. It's set up to stun things very very fast which is what you need to CC Eido. It also works very well at Ape and Kiga.

What makes this build great for Eido:
- Close-range: TK Maelstrom r2+adv is a big PBAoE stun-on-tap that allows you to not worry about targeting
- Mid-range: The r3 Lunge gives you an r3 stun on tap that also lets you travel a long distance in cases where your travel is off.
- Long-range: Sonic Device r3 enables you to have access to 100ft range stun-on-tap

Heals:
- Dependency from Mental Leech
- Bountiful Chi
- Heal pots...you mostly don't need these

Stats / Gear:
same as before....I run 2 sets of gear:
- For Tank Role + Invuln, I have 272 CON and 571 PRE.
- For Support Role + AoAC, I have 103 CON and 748 PRE.

ERMAHGERD ERM A FLERER - Freeform
v2.2.3-24

Super Stats
Level 6: Presence (Primary)
Level 10: Constitution (Secondary)
Level 15: Recovery (Secondary)

Talents
Level 1: Divinity (Con: 12, Pre: 12)
Level 6: Intimidating (Pre: 8)
Level 9: Shrug It Off (Con: 5, Pre: 5)
Level 12: Quick Recovery (Con: 5, Rec: 5)
Level 15: Enduring (Con: 8)
Level 18: Survival Training (Dex: 3, Con: 3, Pre: 3, Rec: 2, End: 2)
Level 21: Lasting Impression (Pre: 5, Rec: 5)

Powers
Level 1: Psi Lash
Level 1: Ego Sleep (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 6: Telepathic Reverberation
Level 8: Eldritch Shield (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 11: Mental Leech (Challenge!)
Level 14: Sonic Device (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 17: Masterful Dodge
Level 20: Bountiful Chi Resurgence
Level 23: Telekinetic Maelstrom (Rank 2, Expansive Intellect)
Level 26: Manipulator
Level 29: Void Shift (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 32: Invulnerability (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 35: Sonic Arrow (Rank 2, Rank 3, Challenge!)
Level 38: Aura of Arcane Clarity (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Adv. Points: 36/36

Travel Powers
Level 6: Athletics (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 35: Teleportation

Specializations
Presence: Repurpose (3/3)
Presence: Dominion (2/2)
Presence: Grandeur (1/3)
Presence: Force of Will (2/2)
Presence: Vulnerability (2/2)
Sentinel: Torment (2/2)
Sentinel: Sentinel Aura (3/3)
Sentinel: Moment of Need (1/3)
Sentinel: Wither (2/2)
Sentinel: Genesis (2/2)
Protector: Fortified Gear (3/3)
Protector: Unrelenting (2/2)
Protector: Bulwark (2/2)
Protector: Debilitating Challenge (2/2)
Protector: Resolute (1/3)
Mastery: Sentinel Mastery (1/1)

pantagruel01

Current build on phantasma:
(Unnamed Build) - Freeform
v2.3.1-25

Super Stats
Level 6: Presence (Primary)
Level 10: Constitution (Secondary)
Level 15: Intelligence (Secondary)

Talents
Level 1: Divinity (Con: 12, Pre: 12)
Level 6: Lasting Impression (Pre: 5, Rec: 5)
Level 9: Intimidating (Pre: 8)
Level 12: Healthy Mind (Con: 5, Int: 5)
Level 15: Diplomatic (Int: 5, Pre: 5)
Level 18: Shrug It Off (Con: 5, Pre: 5)
Level 21: Showmanship (Ego: 5, Pre: 5)

Powers
Level 1: Psi Lash
Level 1: Ego Sleep (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 6: Mental Leech (Challenge!)
Level 8: Bionic Shielding (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 11: Antagonize (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 14: Masterful Dodge
Level 17: Bountiful Chi Resurgence (Rank 2, Resurgent Reiki)
Level 20: Mental Storm (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 23: Telekinetic Shards
Level 26: Telekinetic Barrage (Rank 2, Dazzle)
Level 29: Telekinetic Maelstrom (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 32: Molecular Self-Assembly
Level 35: Manipulator
Level 38: Aura of Primal Majesty (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Adv. Points: 36/36

Travel Powers
Level 6: Hyper Ball (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 35: Millennial Flight (Rank 2)

Specializations
Presence: Repurpose (1/3)
Presence: Selfless Ally (2/2)
Presence: Dominion (2/2)
Presence: Moment of Glory (1/3)
Presence: Force of Will (2/2)
Presence: Vulnerability (2/2)
Sentinel: Torment (2/2)
Sentinel: Caregiver (3/3)
Sentinel: Sentinel Aura (3/3)
Sentinel: Wither (2/2)
Protector: Fortified Gear (3/3)
Protector: Beacon of Hope (2/3)
Protector: Unrelenting (1/2)
Protector: Bulwark (2/2)
Protector: Debilitating Challenge (2/2)
Mastery: Sentinel Mastery (1/1)

jaazaniah1

I'm curious why you ranked Void Shift

kamokami said:

Powers
Level 1: Psi Lash
Level 1: Ego Sleep (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 6: Telepathic Reverberation
Level 8: Eldritch Shield (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 11: Mental Leech (Challenge!)
Level 14: Sonic Device (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 17: Masterful Dodge
Level 20: Bountiful Chi Resurgence
Level 23: Telekinetic Maelstrom (Rank 2, Expansive Intellect)
Level 26: Manipulator
Level 29: Void Shift (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 32: Invulnerability (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 35: Sonic Arrow (Rank 2, Rank 3, Challenge!)
Level 38: Aura of Arcane Clarity (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Adv. Points: 36/36

pantagruel01

jaazaniah1 said:

I'm curious why you ranked Void Shift

Stun duration varies with rank.

spinnytop

I have updated my build \( o3o )/ found out some neat stuff.

kamokami

A quick update to the title, since I got feedback that many people who want to make crowd control builds are not looking to make tanks. Note that this thread is more about crowd control builds in general and many of the tank builds posted have dual passives......you don't need to take the tanking parts of them to use them effectively.

I would also encourage more people to post their recent crowd control builds. If you've been recently CCing then put up your build!

roughbearmattach

I wonder . . . could a stun/paralyze build work with hounds? I know it works with Ape and EIdo.

I was chatting with someone who wanted a CC build that didn't include Ego Sleep.

For instance--a darkness build that uses AoE stun, followed by shadow paralyze (assuming 8 ranks manipulator).

I think I will throw something together to try out.

roughbearmattach

I got my Grasping Shadows paralyze to 80 sec:

Presence PSS, CC specs
Sentienl and Sentry specs to boost CC
Stack Pre mods in primaries
Control mod in Cosmic secondary utility
Two brooches to boost CC in primary utility
Manipulator
AoPM


This build also gets 11 sec stuns with TK Maelstrom, and 9 sec stuns with Shadow Eruption (w/adv).


In practice, I could hold Kiga hounds during phase 1, though there is little room for error.
I have not had a shot at Kiga phase 2 yet.

The paralyze is long enough for Ape hearts, and having two stuns with CD shorter than stun duration is awesome.

I expect that this build could work well with Eido orbs, too.

pantagruel01

roughbearmattach said:

I got my Grasping Shadows paralyze to 80 sec:

Presence PSS, CC specs
Sentienl and Sentry specs to boost CC
Stack Pre mods in primaries
Control mod in Cosmic secondary utility
Two brooches to boost CC in primary utility
Manipulator
AoPM


This build also gets 11 sec stuns with TK Maelstrom, and 9 sec stuns with Shadow Eruption (w/adv).

Are you in support role? Those durations look low given the gear and specs you describe.

spinnytop

Full manipulator on cosmics girl my paralyzes are 92 seconds, thats without the +control strength gems in utility gear. Might be more you can do o3o

alexandrafreya

I figured I might as well post my second CC build (With minor off tanking, mostly just TA)
Also she is a bit out of date since Red Orbs on Ed are now handle differently than before.

I don't use Lachina for Kiga (I have a different Character for that) But she works well for CC hearts on Ape (And used to work well for CC orbs on Ed). Also her build might seem a little confusing but at the time I wanted her to be able to Solo CC Ed's orbs, thus I have Binding Shot (Tap hold) Bolas (Another tap Hold) and Nanobot Swarm (A tap reset for my other tap holds, Which had a low enough cooldown to work every time Red orbs came up unless it messed up and you got chain red orbs)

Lachina does need to be reworked a bit more now as CCing Orbs has changed some what.

As for CCing Hearts, I usually just stand to one side and Bola the Heart near me then Taser Arrow the other two.
Finally I have Off tanked TA a few times with her but it's still a little tricky (Sleep would be more ideal for it)

Lachina - Freeform
v2.3.2-26

Super Stats
Level 6: Presence (Primary)
Level 10: Constitution (Secondary)
Level 15: Recovery (Secondary)

Talents
Level 1:
Level 6:
Level 9:
Level 12:
Level 15:
Level 18:
Level 21:

Powers
Level 1: Strafe
Level 1: Sonic Arrow (Rank 2, Deadly Dissonance, Challenge!)
Level 6: Taser Arrow (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 8: Molecular Self-Assembly
Level 11: Bolas (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 14: Neuroelectric Pulse (Rank 2, Recharge, Challenge!)
Level 17: Resurrection Serum
Level 20: Binding Shot (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 23: Rebirth
Level 26: Aura of Ebon Destruction (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 29: Manipulator
Level 32: Energy Shield (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 35: Nanobot Swarm
Level 38: Invulnerability (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Adv. Points: 36/36

Travel Powers
Level 6: Acrobatics (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 35: Ninja Vanish

Specializations
Presence: Dominion (2/2)
Presence: Grandeur (3/3)
Presence: Moment of Glory (1/3)
Presence: Force of Will (2/2)
Presence: Vulnerability (2/2)
Sentinel: Torment (2/2)
Sentinel: Sentinel Aura (3/3)
Sentinel: Moment of Need (1/3)
Sentinel: Wither (2/2)
Sentinel: Genesis (2/2)
Overseer: Ruthless (2/2)
Overseer: Overseer Aura (3/3)
Overseer: Trapped (3/3)
Overseer: Conservation (2/2)
Mastery: Sentinel Mastery (1/1)

spinnytop

Since people might not want to have to wade through my whole post about my build here's just the build o3o

Super Stats
Level 6: Presence (Primary)
Level 10: Constitution (Secondary)
Level 15: Recovery (Secondary)

Talents
Level 1: Divinity (Con: 12, Pre: 12)
Level 6: Quick Recovery (Con: 5, Rec: 5)
Level 9: Amazing Stamina (Rec: 5, End: 5)
Level 12: Shrug It Off (Con: 5, Pre: 5)
Level 15: Lasting Impression (Pre: 5, Rec: 5)
Level 18: Tireless (Rec: 8)
Level 21: Negotiator (Int: 5, Rec: 5)

Powers
Level 1: Psi Lash
Level 1: Ego Sprites (Challenge!)
Level 6: Telepathic Reverberation
Level 8: Ego Sleep (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 11: Manipulator
Level 14: Ego Storm (Rank 2, Malevolent Manifestation)
Level 17: Mental Storm (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 20: Empathic Healing (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 23: Telekinetic Barrage (Rank 2, Dazzle)
Level 26: Telekinetic Maelstrom (Rank 2, Expansive Intellect)
Level 29: Telekinetic Shards
Level 32: Masterful Dodge
Level 35: Aura of Arcane Clarity (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 38: Invulnerability (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Adv. Points: 36/36

Travel Powers
Level 6: Arcane Flight (Rank 2)
Level 35: Energy Slide (Rank 2, Rank 3)

Specializations
Presence: Dominion (2/2)
Presence: Grandeur (3/3)
Presence: Moment of Glory (1/3)
Presence: Force of Will (2/2)
Presence: Vulnerability (2/2)
Sentinel: Torment (2/2)
Sentinel: Eternal Spring (2/2)
Sentinel: Caregiver (1/3)
Sentinel: Moment of Need (1/3)
Sentinel: Wither (2/2)
Sentinel: Genesis (2/2)
Overseer: Administer (2/3)
Overseer: Overseer Aura (3/3)
Overseer: Trapped (3/3)
Overseer: Conservation (2/2)
Mastery: Sentinel Mastery (1/1)

legendarylycan

i assume challenge! on sprites is for dog herding and other similar situations?​​

spinnytop

shadowfang240 said:

i assume challenge! on sprites is for dog herding and other similar situations?​​

Yes. Great general mob herding tool.

pwestolemyname

alexandrafreya said:

Level 26: Aura of Ebon Destruction (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 29: Manipulator

Doesn't AoED mess with your holds?

pantagruel01

pwestolemyname said:

alexandrafreya said:

Level 26: Aura of Ebon Destruction (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 29: Manipulator

Doesn't AoED mess with your holds?

Probably not by enough to matter, and maybe not at all. Dark lightning doesn't matter on stun powers and can't be triggered by sleep or any of the DoTs normally used to maintain aggro on sleeping targets (as they cannot crit). On a damaging paralyze that can crit it can go off, but only once, which won't be enough to break the paralyze (and due to timing, it might occur before the paralysis applies).

kamokami

Just want to add a quick tip here regarding Kiga dogs since many people seem to be having trouble with them.

In between Sleeps, there is generally a need for a bridge hold...so that dogs wake up without moving around or biting you while you charge your next Sleep. Now that the dogs are hyperactive, unless you are in specific spots of terrain and your position relative to the dogs is exactly the same, they will move around in hte instant that they are awake right before you sleep them.

This can cause one of them to get outside of your Sleep's AoE range which generally results in a wipe.

What I've found to consistently work is using the Ice Grenades device as a bridge hold. It wakes them all up at the same time, briefly stuns them, and roots them in place while you charge sleep. This way they don't move at all.

pantagruel01

On kiga dogs: you can limit how far they move by CCing from on top of a flagpole, the reason the dogs get out of range is because they're running around one another trying to reach you, and the flagpole gives them maximum attackable area, so they don't have to run around past each other. They still move, but don't seem to move outside of sleep radius. This is really only viable if you can self-pull, though.

kamokami

Flerer has a new build brought about by the changes made to Kiga's dog movement. Kiga's dogs now move so much that if they are awake even for 1 second they can get out of the position where a charged sleep will reach all of them.

This was a problem because in between sleeps, I used to use an AoE stun. Others used AoE paralyze or incapacitate type holds. This was done in order to forcibly wake up the dogs and then resleep them. Which was fine since they didn't constantly try to get behind the target they were aggroed on.

But now when the dogs wake up from sleep they move around quite a bit, which introduces a chance that they might get out of position and 1 or more of them will stay awake even if you fully charge sleep. So how do we reliably solve this problem? Some options are:

- positioning: some flat spots of terrain + a particular tight arrangement of dogs around the CCer will make it so that they don't move all over. Or at the very least they'll just spin in a nice neat equidistant circle around you.

- ice grenades: works *most* of the time. Sometimes they still move. But 90% of the time they will not move if you wake them up with a ice grenade...this is due to the additional root that using them applies.

- non-damage paralyze hold: my favorite solution as it's the most reliable. When dogs are at around 8-10 secs of sleep, charge up a paralyze hold that holds them first before dealing any damage (and waking them up). If they are held they wont move. In my case, I chose Grasping Shadows since it deals no damage at all and has a large radius.

Here's the new build (still Eido-viable). I'm also giving TK Barrage a shot right now but will be trying Electric Current as well or just going back to Sonic Arrow at some point.

ERMAHGERD ERM A FLERER v7 - Freeform
v2.4.2-29

Super Stats
Level 6: Presence (Primary)
Level 10: Constitution (Secondary)
Level 15: Recovery (Secondary)

Talents
Level 1: Divinity (Con: 12, Pre: 12)
Level 6: Intimidating (Pre: 8)
Level 9: Shrug It Off (Con: 5, Pre: 5)
Level 12: Quick Recovery (Con: 5, Rec: 5)
Level 15: Enduring (Con: 8)
Level 18: Survival Training (Dex: 3, Con: 3, Pre: 3, Rec: 2, End: 2)
Level 21: Lasting Impression (Pre: 5, Rec: 5)

Powers
Level 1: Psi Lash (advantages)
Level 1: Ego Sleep (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 6: Telepathic Reverberation
Level 8: Eldritch Shield (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 11: Mental Leech (Challenge!)
Level 14: Bionic Shielding (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 17: Masterful Dodge (advantages)
Level 20: Sigils of Ebon Weakness (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 23: Telekinetic Maelstrom (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 26: Manipulator (advantages)
Level 29: Grasping Shadows (advantages)
Level 32: Invulnerability (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 35: Telekinetic Barrage (Dazzle, Instill Doubt, Challenge!)
Level 38: Aura of Arcane Clarity (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Adv. Points: 36/36

Travel Powers
Level 6: Athletics (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 35: Teleport (advantages)

Specializations
Presence: Repurpose (3/3)
Presence: Dominion (2/2)
Presence: Grandeur (1/3)
Presence: Force of Will (2/2)
Presence: Vulnerability (2/2)
Sentinel: Torment (2/2)
Sentinel: Sentinel Aura (3/3)
Sentinel: Moment of Need (1/3)
Sentinel: Wither (2/2)
Sentinel: Genesis (2/2)
Sentry: Fortified Gear (3/3)
Sentry: Sentry Aura (3/3)
Sentry: Stalling Tactics (3/3)
Sentry: Reinforce (1/2)
Mastery: Sentinel Mastery (1/1)

pwestolemyname

kamokami said:

- non-damage paralyze hold: my favorite solution as it's the most reliable. When dogs are at around 8-10 secs of sleep, charge up a paralyze hold that holds them first before dealing any damage (and waking them up). If they are held they wont move. In my case, I chose Grasping Shadows since it deals no damage at all and has a large radius.

Great stuff, as always. Question, using a non-damage paralyze means that they never wake up, right? Does that not risk the timers getting out of synch?

I still use the old stun-bridge and out of maybe 8-10 tries, it has only failed once due to the dogs moving out of range during the bridge (other failures due to other things).

I have not tried the Ice 'Nade solution, but I carry it on my CCers, so I'll give that a go next time. My only concern is that the stun is so short, the dogs will wake and eat me while I'm charging Sleep. Is this not a problem?

pantagruel01

pwestolemyname said:

I have not tried the Ice 'Nade solution, but I carry it on my CCers, so I'll give that a go next time. My only concern is that the stun is so short, the dogs will wake and eat me while I'm charging Sleep. Is this not a problem?

Dogs generally prioritize using Howl if they're close to you, and you can land a sleep while they're trying to howl.

kamokami

pwestolemyname said:

Great stuff, as always. Question, using a non-damage paralyze means that they never wake up, right? Does that not risk the timers getting out of synch?

They can get out of sync yes. This happens when the paralyze doesn't hit them all at the same time. So it also expires off of them at different times and gives them hold resist stacks that expire at different times.

And you don't want to cast sleep until it has expired off of all the dogs....otherwise you might cast it, but one of the remaining dogs who has not woken up yet will not have its timer refreshed. When the CCers say, "one of the dogs didn't sleep for some reason"...it's either this, or they didn't charge sleep, or the dog was too far away.

So what to do?

The way to counter this is:
A. Ensure that the dogs are arranged in as tight of a position as possible so that the paralyze hits them as close to the same time as possible. Best way to do this is to pull for yourself...or have a puller who knows how to get the dogs into a tight group.

B. Be vigilant. Even when out of sync, I've never seen the sleep timers be more than 15 secs apart.

C. Have a long enough bridge paralyze such that you can cast it when the dog with the shortest sleep time is about to wake, but also such that the dog with the longest sleep time will remain paralyzed when it wakes...since you wont be recasting sleep until the dog with the longest time is no longer sleeping.

For example, let's say it's phase 2 and you've slept the 4 dogs but timers are wildly out of sync. At the two extreme ends, there's Keelut with 30 secs of sleep left and there's Qiqirn with 45 secs left.

You wait until Keelut is down to 3 secs of sleep, since Grasping Shadows takes a little over 2 secs to charge, then cast Grasping Shadows. All of the dogs get paralyzed and Keelut wakes up, gets a hold resist stack, but stays put and doesn't howl. His paralyze starts to tick down pretty quickly due to the hold resist stack.

Meanwhile Qiqirn gets down to 15 secs of sleep left.....he's also been paralyzed by your Grasping Shadows. Since your Grasping Shadows lasts for a long time, by the time 15 secs have elapsed and Qiqirn wakes up, Keelut is still paralyzed even though he had a hold resist stack on him. Qiqirn is the last one to wake up, but stays paralyzed for a few more seconds. You fully charge sleep at the center-most dog, since they are all awake at this point, and go make yourself a sandwich.

Fully written out it sounds more complicated than it is.

TLDR: if you're going to bridge with paralyze, make sure it's a strong one. Cast it earlier than you would if you were bridging with a stun to avoid sync issues. Keep the dogs in a tight group.

The other thing that's nice about a non-damage paralyze bridge is that you don't have to worry about aggro. Since the dogs never get a chance to move, they won't get out of position. This is great for Kiga runs where aggro breaks after repeated wipes.

pwestolemyname said:

I have not tried the Ice 'Nade solution, but I carry it on my CCers, so I'll give that a go next time. My only concern is that the stun is so short, the dogs will wake and eat me while I'm charging Sleep. Is this not a problem?

It's not if you keep your finger on the trigger haha. You get time when the dogs start howling. But it's still a bit scary. Just don't wait for the 'nades to hit, start charging sleep as soon as you activate the 'nades.

spinnytop

Vixy finally coming around to my way of CCing u3u only took 2 years.

citizenzero

kamokami - im going to template my very first CC toon from your detailed breakdown. This will be the first time ive ever stepped outside of a dps role or tank for that matter in any game. even 8 years of city of heros..never changed much from stalker, run and gun blaster or corrupter, So this will be a whole new adventure for me

pjz99

Here's a fun, weird variation on builds cited earlier, a Might-based CC offtank. It has some drawbacks compared to others listed earlier but it's very fun to play, is melee-oriented, and very strong in alerts and Teleios Ascendant. I have really crummy gear on this character at the moment but she was able to CC dogs, offtank in TA and Save the Earth, and has generally been a huge blast to play. If you really wanted the second passive or another self heal of some sort, consider dropping Haymaker. This isn't perfect, it's what I have currently - if I retcon I'd get rid of R2/Challenge on Roomsweeper. e: I retconned to reflect that and also switched to Sentinel/Protector, it's a little bit less duration on CC (59 sec vs 61 sec for sleep at 8 stacks, not really much at all) in exchange for really nice stuff in Protector (10% life, block running, Resolute).
Mighty Mousse
v2.4.2-29

Super Stats
Level 6: Presence (Primary)
Level 10: Constitution (Secondary)
Level 15: Recovery (Secondary)

Powers
Level 1: Clobber (advantages)
Level 1: Mighty Leap (advantages)
Level 6: Roomsweeper (Concussive Blow)
Level 8: Thunderclap (Rank 2, Collateral Damage)
Level 11: Invulnerability (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 14: Manipulator (advantages)
Level 17: Force Shield (Rank 2, Rank 3, Force Sheathe)
Level 20: Ego Sprites (Slave Mentality, Challenge!)
Level 23: Bionic Shielding (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 26: Masterful Dodge (advantages)
Level 29: Grasping Shadows (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 32: Ego Sleep (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 35: Rebirth (advantages)
Level 38: Haymaker (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Adv. Points: 36/36

Travel Powers
Level 6: Athletics (Rank 2)
Level 35: Teleport (Rank 2)

Specializations
Presence: Repurpose (3/3)
Presence: Dominion (2/2)
Presence: Moment of Glory (3/3)
Presence: Force of Will (2/2)
Sentinel: Torment (2/2)
Sentinel: Caregiver (3/3)
Sentinel: Sentinel Aura (3/3)
Sentinel: Moment of Need (2/3)
Protector: Fortified Gear (3/3)
Protector: Unrelenting (2/2)
Protector: Bulwark (2/2)
Protector: Resolute (3/3)
Mastery: Sentinel Mastery (1/1)

pjz99

And another gadget-themed version, this works well:

Joy Buzzer
v2.4.2-29

Super Stats
Level 6: Presence (Primary)
Level 10: Constitution (Secondary)
Level 15: Recovery (Secondary)

Powers
Level 1: Sonic Blaster (advantages)
Level 1: Bionic Shielding (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 6: Experimental Burst Ray (Rank 2, Arcturus Cooling System)
Level 8: Invulnerability (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 11: Manipulator (advantages)
Level 14: Energy Shield (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 17: Mental Leech (Challenge!)
Level 20: Electrocute (Rank 2, Rank 3) - Note that since the Electric rework this is 5 targets and the arcs definitely do not break sleep
Level 23: Telekinetic Maelstrom (Rank 2, Rank 3, Challenge!)
Level 26: Ego Sleep (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 29: Resurgence (advantages)
Level 32: Rebirth (advantages)
Level 35: Masterful Dodge (advantages)
Level 38: Aura of Arcane Clarity (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Adv. Points: 36/36

Travel Powers
Level 6: Jet Boots (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 35: Athletics (advantages)

Specializations
Presence: Repurpose (3/3)
Presence: Dominion (2/2)
Presence: Moment of Glory (3/3)
Presence: Force of Will (2/2)
Sentinel: Torment (2/2)
Sentinel: Caregiver (3/3)
Sentinel: Sentinel Aura (3/3)
Sentinel: Moment of Need (2/3)
Sentry: Fortified Gear (2/3)
Sentry: Sentry Aura (3/3)
Sentry: Fortify (2/2)
Sentry: Stalling Tactics (3/3)
Mastery: Sentinel Mastery (1/1)


It bothers me that there's so little variation among these builds, it would be good if there were some alternate versions of things like AOE Sleep (e.g. "Gadget/Sleep Gas, Sorcery/Mass Hypnosis, etc)