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To Kaiserin, as promised

glortorglortor Posts: 324 Arc User
edited February 2016 in Suggestions Box
Archery - Marksman Archetype needs its super-stats changed to Dex, Con, Int or EGO Con Int PLEASE!!
1. Damage Output Subpar - Powers in this set need a serious damage buff to be brought up to par with the rest of the game.
2. !Evasive Maneuvers Adjustment Request - I would like to suggest / request its cooldown looked at and 4-5 seconds shaved off. OR: It's already a massive loss of dps, please consider giving this power an overall look in terms of how late it applies the dodge buff, how long that buff lasts and that compared to its cooldown and how long the backflip takes to perform. I would like it to be useable with a LR+TK build without Fluidity having to be in the build.

Martial Arts - Fist Archetype needs its super-stats changed to STR, Con, Dex or Dex, Con, Rec PLEASE!!
1. Supplementary: Several powers such as Rising Knee or Backhand need looked at for their damage output so that they are worth taking. OR I would like to suggest having one single target power whose visual can be adjusted to Knee, Backhand, or Elbow and have the properties of the above compiled into advantage points creating one, extensive supplementary power that the MA users can set-up with up to five points as they see fit. I understand that this is a lot of work but I believe that having a power that knocks and then can have an interrupt and/or disorient effect based on how you skill it is more desirable than having to pick so many otherwise subpar powers.
2. !Thundering Kicks: Due to its dodge buff it's been on the weak side compared to the rest of the combos. I would like to suggest the combo itself reimagined in a sense. Here's my suggestion, just an idea:
Currently TK has Floating Lotus Blossom which offers a slight dodge bonus, and the combo itself grants a hefty 19% dodge bonus at rank3.
The problem is this multifunctionality; it somewhat sucks at both in a sense.
Its damage is bad, FLB is not really worth getting as it is right now, it's just suboptimal.
Suggestion: TK itself could be "just a combo" with its damage up to par with the rest of the combo powers in the game.
Then, FLB would be what applies the % dodge buff, period, instead of the stacking buff it gives currently, and perhaps add a 1pt adv which grants dodge or avoidance somehow on top of that, a bit like many other combo powers have a supplementary 2pt adv which allows for functionality past being a damage power AND a 1pt adv to further invest points towards a goal or another.
This would allow people to pick between:
R3 for damage purposes, +1 for slight bonus if one decides to.
R2+CC for any tank that does not want dodge.
R2+FLB+1 for a full dodge tank.
Changes along these lines would make TK work much better and the Master AT actually worth taking to endgame content.

!!Celestial - This is the power set I believe needs most looked at currently.
0. Seraphim's r2-3 scaling is messed up.
1. Rebuke
- Not A Blast! Specifications where a Blast was called (such as Guardian Mastery etc.) have no, or limited, interaction with this power.
- Not A Stun! Stun duration on its adv is incredibly subpar. It's literally a split second even on a character fully built towards disables.
- Not A Heal! Severity and crit% seem to fall dead on this power.
- Crippling Challenge to please affect all targets which became stunned around the initial target.

2. Expulse
- Only works on full charge? I would like to please request giving it a proper on-tap-to-full-charge damage and knock-strength scaling similar to other knock powers. Hashtag Holy Enrage Tanks plz
- Congregation: 2pt adv instead of the snare it does now, which knocks-to instead.
- Challenging Strikes to remain of course.

3. New Power Request/Suggestion: Repentance
- AOE Cone Supernatural Damage similar to Breath powers. (Can be cast from hands chest head fist etc)
- Sanctimony: 2pt adv - Friendly targets are healed
- Reverence: 1pt adv - 20% chance to stun hostile targets in the cone while 10% chance to remove 1 negative effect from friendlies.
- Starweave: (Visual) - Instead of a wave, holy motes are being fired like the telepathy motes, just y'know, holy.

Darkness
- Summon Shadows do not last long enough, they often skedaddle in the middle of a longer fight. Having them stay as long as the caster reads "InCombat=True" would help a lot.
- Ebon Rift Subpar - summon time vs damage ratio is headdesk. (Takes too long to get out and doesn't do enough damage overall)
- Drain Life - Suggestion of a 1pt adv that allows for it to affect all feared targets in a small radius around the main target for less damage, but for that damage to still feed into Vampiric Sympathy

Arcane
Arcane Blast's vs Held property would do well in my opinion with a "extra damage vs hold-immune" improvement.
-------------------------------
Another note: I feel SCR gain is disproportionate of the time it takes to complete content in relation to the costs of rewards.
EDIT: Aggro. CS and CC overall need to stick better and aggro better, please.
EDIT2: Mastery suggestions
Sentry: You and your whole party gain a flat-out damage resistance bonus to all damage a bit like IDF. This amount scales with your superstats.
Arbiter: Each part of your combo attack ticks heal you and your party. This amount is determined by your crit.
Post edited by glortor on
«1

Comments

  • tditstdits Posts: 666 Arc User
    edited February 2016
    I'd like to point out another underperforming power: Crushing Wave from Force. Due to the way maintain ticks work (the initial hit isn't considered a tick) Crushing Wave is incapable of stacking Conviction or Chilled except by being at least 25' away, which often doesn't happen. Furthermore, it only really works with two energy unlocks: Wind Reverberation and Overdrive. Overdrive is hard to use with this power (especially if you wanted the knockdown advantage) and Wind Reverb just doesn't seem to generate a lot of energy with it. It also doesn't proc Challenging Strikes very well because it ticks so slowly compared to the other breath powers.

    Would it be possible to add another tick of damage while shortening the time between ticks and lowering the damage to compensate?
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  • theravenforcetheravenforce Posts: 7,065 Arc User
    tdits said:

    I'd like to point out another underperforming power: Crushing Wave from Force. Due to the way maintain ticks work (the initial hit isn't considered a tick) Crushing Wave is incapable of stacking Conviction or Chilled except by being at least 25' away, which often doesn't happen. Furthermore, it only really works with two energy unlocks: Wind Reverberation and Overdrive. Overdrive is hard to use with this power (especially if you wanted the knockdown advantage) and Wind Reverb just doesn't seem to generate a lot of energy with it. It also doesn't proc Challenging Strikes very well because it ticks so slowly compared to the other breath powers.



    Would it be possible to add another tick of damage while shortening the time between ticks and lowering the damage to compensate?

    Crushing Wave just needs to be turned into a visual variant of Wind Breath, they both do the same job
  • aiqaaiqa Posts: 2,620 Arc User
    edited February 2016
    I can't say I agree with a lot of things in the OP.

    TGM does slightly higher damage than competing power, but not overly much. Removing the resistance penetration and increasing it's energy cost significantly, and maybe lower it's damage by 5% would be enough to set it on par with other options.

    Shred does much lower damage than Lasersword, and compared to other single target attacks it's not overly strong at all. Other combo attacks do significantly lower damage is more a problem with combo attacks in general.

    Archery needs one strong single target attack. Just increasing focussed shot damage so then when combined with straight shot it does good dps and remove its interrupt on taking damage and lower range to 100feet, would be enough to make archery competitive.

    Evasive Maneuvres, I understand you want to keep the buff up 100% of the time, but this does not belong in a list of underperforming power at all.

    Rising Knee and Backhand Chop are not intended to do high damage, they are to interrupt your enemies when they do a charge attack. There are many more powers of this kind.

    I don't see the need for changes to Thundering Kicks, and least of all to make the Master AT worth using. If it works well for any builds already, it is for dodge tanks.

    None of the celestial healattacks really work well. The only reason conduit can do ok ish dps is by exploiting it doing 2 hits in the first second, which is not a nice way of using the power, is not reliable, and costs insane amounts of energy.

    Summon Shadows is one of the better pseudopets, but none of those are not really worth using.

    Ebon Rift needs to scale with crit, like any other powers that can not crit.

    Life Drain needs higher damage, and a lower heal.

    If the changes to Ice Blast are any indication, blasts will be changed to utility powers in stead of damage dealing.

    I think you have missed a lot of powers that are under and overperforming. For example Nimble Mind of Varocious Darkness.
  • glortorglortor Posts: 324 Arc User
    Hey, thanks for chiming in aqa you know the game better than I do.
    For all I've mentioned to be underperforming I meant it in comparison to either the function of the power or the relation to other powers.

    *When I included EM in this part I meant it was not performing as it was originally balanced with the former cooldown speeds in mind, and would need to be brought back up to its intended function (being able to have it up 100% of the time, since it's a supplementary power that sacrifices damage/time and mobility/momentum in favour of defense)

    *I have extensively tested Archery and I'm telling you it's not doing enough damage. I would increase its damage, but Kaiserin will probably know by how much it would be fair to, as she has parsed the entire game's damage information. Flowcyto as well.

    *Rising Knee and Backhand Chop are subpar powers, since they are single target single function "filler" moves for archetypes that are already not capable of tackling some endgame content without serious adjustments to their survivability.

    *In the case of Shred I feel it should be what combos are compared to, but it IS overperforming while Laser Swords are a pain to uphold.
    aiqa said:


    I don't see the need for changes to Thundering Kicks, and least of all to make the Master AT worth using. If it works well for any builds already, it is for dodge tanks.

    We'll keep disagreeing on this one indefinitely as you have a dodge tank with dex primary that can maintain 100% because you have spent over fifty dollars or countless hours on getting Rank9 mods. This is not available to everyone and I'm of the belief that the game should not have elements unavailable to players who do not have the money, be that american dollars or globals.
    My request of changing Thundering Kicks also stems from the fact that it's a good looking power that doesn't perform well outside of its niche and I feel the game would benefit from powers being more universal in the sense that if somebody likes the way TK looks but wants it for dps, they should just so much as invest the four points to take it to rank3, while those who would want it for the dodge buff would choose the right advantage, were my proposed changes live.
    aiqa said:


    I think you have mist a lot of powers that are under and overperforming. For example Nimble Mind of Varocious Darkness.

    Do feel free to add them and explain what you feel is amiss about them.
  • holloweaverholloweaver Posts: 582 Arc User
    glortor said:


    2. !Thundering Kicks: Due to its dodge buff it's been on the weak side compared to the rest of the combos. I would like to suggest the combo itself reimagined in a sense. Here's my suggestion, just an idea:
    Currently TK has Floating Lotus Blossom which offers a slight dodge bonus, and the combo itself grants a hefty 19% dodge bonus at rank3.
    The problem is this multifunctionality; it somewhat sucks at both in a sense.
    Its damage is bad, FLB is not really worth getting as it is right now, it's just suboptimal.
    Suggestion: TK itself could be "just a combo" with its damage up to par with the rest of the combo powers in the game.
    Then, FLB would be what applies the % dodge buff, period, instead of the stacking buff it gives currently, and perhaps add a 1pt adv which grants dodge or avoidance somehow on top of that, a bit like many other combo powers have a supplementary 2pt adv which allows for functionality past being a damage power AND a 1pt adv to further invest points towards a goal or another.
    This would allow people to pick between:
    R3 for damage purposes, +1 for slight bonus if one decides to.
    R2+CC for any tank that does not want dodge.
    R2+FLB+1 for a full dodge tank.
    Changes along these lines would make TK work much better and the Master AT actually worth taking to endgame content.

    I believe you clearly never played a dodge tank.
    A tank needs to aim passively around 100% dodge so he can spam his spike attack while having a decent base dodge chance.
    You're not going to hold aggro with a combo attack, any combo attack (exception of Ebon Weaponry with Siphoning Strikes).
    You want to nerf dodge tanks down to 19%? and you dare to complain about R9 DEX mod builds. Do you know how much DEX will be required to dodge-tank with 19% less dodge? 800? 900?... 1200?
    Right now, TKicks works perfectly : 3 kicks, proc your dodge buff and move to your spike attack spam to hold aggro.
    The advantage is useless for a dodge tank, we already have Escalating Reflexes on LR for that. I can see a melee WotW using the adv to give him a better chance to dodge a deadly blow.

    If you got the Master AT, and chose TKicks R2+adv over Tkicks R3 you're doing something wrong.
  • aiqaaiqa Posts: 2,620 Arc User
    edited February 2016
    glortor said:

    Hey, thanks for chiming in aqa you know the game better than I do.
    For all I've mentioned to be underperforming I meant it in comparison to either the function of the power or the relation to other powers.

    *When I included EM in this part I meant it was not performing as it was originally balanced with the former cooldown speeds in mind, and would need to be brought back up to its intended function (being able to have it up 100% of the time, since it's a supplementary power that sacrifices damage/time and mobility/momentum in favour of defense)

    *I have extensively tested Archery and I'm telling you it's not doing enough damage. I would increase its damage, but Kaiserin will probably know by how much it would be fair to, as she has parsed the entire game's damage information. Flowcyto as well.

    *Rising Knee and Backhand Chop are subpar powers, since they are single target single function "filler" moves for archetypes that are already not capable of tackling some endgame content without serious adjustments to their survivability.

    EM was added to CO long before on alert. So maybe with a single statted INT build you could keep it up 100%, but not for any other.

    AoE achery works well enough. Having full mobility on AoE with a 100 feet range is a huge advantage. I do agree it needs other options than that, but in my opinion that is not really needed for the AoE part. Which is why I said changing up focussed shot would be enough.

    Powers like brute strike, or crashing wave kick, serve the same purpose. They keep your target from walking away, and interrupt their attacks with just a quick tap. That is a useful function for a power.
    glortor said:

    aiqa said:


    I don't see the need for changes to Thundering Kicks, and least of all to make the Master AT worth using. If it works well for any builds already, it is for dodge tanks.

    We'll keep disagreeing on this one indefinitely as you have a dodge tank with dex primary that can maintain 100% because you have spent over fifty dollars or countless hours on getting Rank9 mods. This is not available to everyone and I'm of the belief that the game should not have elements unavailable to players who do not have the money, be that american dollars or globals.
    My request of changing Thundering Kicks also stems from the fact that it's a good looking power that doesn't perform well outside of its niche and I feel the game would benefit from powers being more universal in the sense that if somebody likes the way TK looks but wants it for dps, they should just so much as invest the four points to take it to rank3, while those who would want it for the dodge buff would choose the right advantage, were my proposed changes live.
    That Master uses CON primary and that is much easier to use for a 100% dodge build. With DEX primary you need to use r9 mods, with CON primary you can easily go with r7 mods.
    glortor said:


    aiqa said:


    I think you have mist a lot of powers that are under and overperforming. For example Nimble Mind of Varocious Darkness.

    Do feel free to add them and explain what you feel is amiss about them.
    A few examples of things that need some attention at some point:

    A discussions about the two advantages I mentioned can be found here:
    http://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/championsonline#/discussion/1203277/voracious-darkness-and-nimble-mind-changes

    Powers that cause bigger balance troubles than any single target attack, are the few high damage high ranged pbAoE attacks and high damage spike AoE. With an attack like epidemic or hurricane you can just walk through any mission, not even paying attention to your enemies and, holding the maintain until things stop moving. A power like lead tempest, you can just stand in the middle of the room and maintain until things are dead. Having Unleahed Rage on more than 1 player in a team completely destroys any content appart from bossfights.

    Another things that causes huge performance discrepancies, are cycling of AD/AO. With the CDR changes it's a bit less game breaking, but almost any other power is restricted with things like energy cost or the time you need to invest. AO/AD only cost a power slot, but the effect does not have any diminishing return for the first two powers. The same goes for click heals like conviction, BCR, bionic shielding.

    There are huge differences in the performance of spec masteries. For example Sentinel mastery can heal you for 25% of your health every 2 seconds, by using 1 power against a group of enemies. While a less useful mastery like sentry, does a 3 seconds stun against 1 target when your health drops under 50%, with a 60 seconds cooldown.

    Wind and Earth are mostly not very useful sets. Wind does have 1 overperforming power (hurricane), and one average power (typhoo), but the rest is not very useful. Earth is not a good set at all, if you build for it you can have Cave In do ok isj spike damage. But the overall dps of the set is greatly underperforming.

    Single target damage on Heavy Weapons is well below most other sets. And the only good HW AoE attacks are Brimstone and Skewer, all the others have below average dps.

    Ego Blades is in the same boat as HW, while it's top dps is a bit higher, its disadvantages (mostly no synergies with STR) are so big that it is just not worth using over other melee sets.
  • glortorglortor Posts: 324 Arc User


    I believe you clearly never played a dodge tank.

    Stopped reading, thank you for trying. XD
  • holloweaverholloweaver Posts: 582 Arc User
    glortor said:


    I believe you clearly never played a dodge tank.

    Stopped reading
    Makes sense with your suggestions. :)
  • glortorglortor Posts: 324 Arc User
    edited February 2016
    aiqa said:

    glortor said:

    Hey, thanks for chiming in aqa you know the game better than I do.
    For all I've mentioned to be underperforming I meant it in comparison to either the function of the power or the relation to other powers.

    *When I included EM in this part I meant it was not performing as it was originally balanced with the former cooldown speeds in mind, and would need to be brought back up to its intended function (being able to have it up 100% of the time, since it's a supplementary power that sacrifices damage/time and mobility/momentum in favour of defense)

    *I have extensively tested Archery and I'm telling you it's not doing enough damage. I would increase its damage, but Kaiserin will probably know by how much it would be fair to, as she has parsed the entire game's damage information. Flowcyto as well.

    *Rising Knee and Backhand Chop are subpar powers, since they are single target single function "filler" moves for archetypes that are already not capable of tackling some endgame content without serious adjustments to their survivability.

    EM was added to CO long before on alert. So maybe with a single statted INT build you could keep it up 100%, but not for any other.

    AoE achery works well enough. Having full mobility on AoE with a 100 feet range is a huge advantage. I do agree it needs other options than that, but in my opinion that is not really needed for the AoE part. Which is why I said changing up focussed shot would be enough.

    Powers like brute strike, or crashing wave kick, serve the same purpose. They keep your target from walking away, and interrupt their attacks with just a quick tap. That is a useful function for a power.
    glortor said:

    aiqa said:


    I don't see the need for changes to Thundering Kicks, and least of all to make the Master AT worth using. If it works well for any builds already, it is for dodge tanks.

    We'll keep disagreeing on this one indefinitely as you have a dodge tank with dex primary that can maintain 100% because you have spent over fifty dollars or countless hours on getting Rank9 mods. This is not available to everyone and I'm of the belief that the game should not have elements unavailable to players who do not have the money, be that american dollars or globals.
    My request of changing Thundering Kicks also stems from the fact that it's a good looking power that doesn't perform well outside of its niche and I feel the game would benefit from powers being more universal in the sense that if somebody likes the way TK looks but wants it for dps, they should just so much as invest the four points to take it to rank3, while those who would want it for the dodge buff would choose the right advantage, were my proposed changes live.
    That Master uses CON primary and that is much easier to use for a 100% dodge build. With DEX primary you need to use r9 mods, with CON primary you can easily go with r7 mods.
    glortor said:


    aiqa said:


    I think you have mist a lot of powers that are under and overperforming. For example Nimble Mind of Varocious Darkness.

    Do feel free to add them and explain what you feel is amiss about them.
    A few examples of things that need some attention at some point:

    A discussions about the two advantages I mentioned can be found here:
    http://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/championsonline#/discussion/1203277/voracious-darkness-and-nimble-mind-changes

    Powers that cause bigger balance troubles than any single target attack, are the few high damage high ranged pbAoE attacks and high damage spike AoE. With an attack like epidemic or hurricane you can just walk through any mission, not even paying attention to your enemies and, holding the maintain until things stop moving. A power like lead tempest, you can just stand in the middle of the room and maintain until things are dead. Having Unleahed Rage on more than 1 player in a team completely destroys any content appart from bossfights.

    Another things that causes huge performance discrepancies, are cycling of AD/AO. With the CDR changes it's a bit less game breaking, but almost any other power is restricted with things like energy cost or the time you need to invest. AO/AD only cost a power slot, but the effect does not have any diminishing return for the first two powers. The same goes for click heals like conviction, BCR, bionic shielding.

    There are huge differences in the performance of spec masteries. For example Sentinel mastery can heal you for 25% of your health every 2 seconds, by using 1 power against a group of enemies. While a less useful mastery like sentry, does a 3 seconds stun against 1 target when your health drops under 50%, with a 60 seconds cooldown.

    Wind and Earth are mostly not very useful sets. Wind does have 1 overperforming power (hurricane), and one average power (typhoo), but the rest is not very useful. Earth is not a good set at all, if you build for it you can have Cave In do ok isj spike damage. But the overall dps of the set is greatly underperforming.

    Single target damage on Heavy Weapons is well below most other sets. And the only good HW AoE attacks are Brimstone and Skewer, all the others have below average dps.

    Ego Blades is in the same boat as HW, while it's top dps is a bit higher, its disadvantages (mostly no synergies with STR) are so big that it is just not worth using over other melee sets.
    My TK changes would just make it a combo that can be used for its combo function while allowing it to be statted towards dodge tanking as well.
    I just want to use it on a dps build and do good dps you know? Without being told its damage is subpar because it's a dodge buff. It's just plain convenience to have the power as a combo and then just take the adv to make it add dodge. Nothing shady here.

    Wait, you're saying Hurricane does not function as intended? I thought it was a decent dps skill that eats a lot of resources, don't feel like it's bad to me, especially with how much you have to block vs all the knocks and holds in the game. Do you mean pvp?

    And I do think masteries like Sentry or Arbiter need to be reimagined, yes. I think Sentinel should be the margin to match powers to.

  • glortorglortor Posts: 324 Arc User
    Indeed, I think we are mixing up "powers that are good" with "overperforming".
    If we nerf everything that's good we'll be left with a very subpar game.
  • aiqaaiqa Posts: 2,620 Arc User
    gradii said:

    Not really anything wrong with Voracious Darkness or Nimble mind. We should be asking for the other active offenses to be on par with Ego Surge in this regard, and make nimble mind a part of ego surge entirely.

    Voracious darkness is hardly breaking anything when not used on a tank who already is pushing limits on damage resistance.

    When 1 AO greatly outperforms all others, the way forward is not to buff all others. The getting a 100% crit chance for 15 seconds is just completely impossible to balance. Even if other AOs need a buff that needs to be done in a different way.

    And the option of reaching 100% block resistance is way to much for the cost of 1 adv point, and its not nearly on par with with 1 point advantages on other block replacers.
  • glortorglortor Posts: 324 Arc User
    aiqa said:

    gradii said:

    Not really anything wrong with Voracious Darkness or Nimble mind. We should be asking for the other active offenses to be on par with Ego Surge in this regard, and make nimble mind a part of ego surge entirely.

    Voracious darkness is hardly breaking anything when not used on a tank who already is pushing limits on damage resistance.

    When 1 AO greatly outperforms all others, the way forward is not to buff all others. The getting a 100% crit chance for 15 seconds is just completely impossible to balance. Even if other AOs need a buff that needs to be done in a different way.

    And the option of reaching 100% block resistance is way to much for the cost of 1 adv point, and its not nearly on par with with 1 point advantages on other block replacers.
    I agree on Ego Surge being a bit too powerful, but Voracious has just become staple. To change that would make tanks a whole lot weaker in the game and with the direction in which content is going, that is not acceptable.
  • avianosavianos Posts: 6,022 Arc User
    edited February 2016
    I have only seen people complaining about Voracious darkness THANKS to the failure called OSV update
    aiqa wrote: »
    Life Drain needs higher damage, and a lower heal.

    HEY HEY HEY HEY! Don't ruin my Necromancer again! he already got hit by the CDR Nerf

    I PREFER the low damage bigger heal balance​​
    POWERFRAME REVAMPS, NEW POWERS and BUG FIXES > Recycled Content and Events and even costumes at this point Introvert guy who use CO to make his characters playable and get experimental with Viable FF Theme builds! Running out of Unique FF builds due to the lack of updates and synergiesPlaying since 1 February 2011 98+ Characters (7 ATs, 91 FFs) ALTitis for Life!
  • aiqaaiqa Posts: 2,620 Arc User
    edited February 2016
    glortor said:

    aiqa said:

    gradii said:

    Not really anything wrong with Voracious Darkness or Nimble mind. We should be asking for the other active offenses to be on par with Ego Surge in this regard, and make nimble mind a part of ego surge entirely.

    Voracious darkness is hardly breaking anything when not used on a tank who already is pushing limits on damage resistance.

    When 1 AO greatly outperforms all others, the way forward is not to buff all others. The getting a 100% crit chance for 15 seconds is just completely impossible to balance. Even if other AOs need a buff that needs to be done in a different way.

    And the option of reaching 100% block resistance is way to much for the cost of 1 adv point, and its not nearly on par with with 1 point advantages on other block replacers.
    I agree on Ego Surge being a bit too powerful, but Voracious has just become staple. To change that would make tanks a whole lot weaker in the game and with the direction in which content is going, that is not acceptable.
    It's not acceptable to require 1 specific block replacer. You need to be be able to make and play all sorts of concepts in CO, having conviction as the go-to heal is bad enough and that is fairly theme ambiguous.
  • avianosavianos Posts: 6,022 Arc User
    edited February 2016
    aiqa wrote: »


    It's not acceptable to require 1 specific block replacer. You need to be be able to make and play all sorts of concepts in CO, having conviction as the go-to heal is bad enough and that is fairly theme ambiguous.



    MORE THEMETICS HEALS AND SELF HEALS WOULD HELP!
    Fire: you consume the clinging flame stacks! BAM! self heal

    At least Conviction is Theme Neutral looking​​
    POWERFRAME REVAMPS, NEW POWERS and BUG FIXES > Recycled Content and Events and even costumes at this point Introvert guy who use CO to make his characters playable and get experimental with Viable FF Theme builds! Running out of Unique FF builds due to the lack of updates and synergiesPlaying since 1 February 2011 98+ Characters (7 ATs, 91 FFs) ALTitis for Life!
  • glortorglortor Posts: 324 Arc User
    aiqa said:

    glortor said:

    aiqa said:

    gradii said:

    Not really anything wrong with Voracious Darkness or Nimble mind. We should be asking for the other active offenses to be on par with Ego Surge in this regard, and make nimble mind a part of ego surge entirely.

    Voracious darkness is hardly breaking anything when not used on a tank who already is pushing limits on damage resistance.

    When 1 AO greatly outperforms all others, the way forward is not to buff all others. The getting a 100% crit chance for 15 seconds is just completely impossible to balance. Even if other AOs need a buff that needs to be done in a different way.

    And the option of reaching 100% block resistance is way to much for the cost of 1 adv point, and its not nearly on par with with 1 point advantages on other block replacers.
    I agree on Ego Surge being a bit too powerful, but Voracious has just become staple. To change that would make tanks a whole lot weaker in the game and with the direction in which content is going, that is not acceptable.
    It's not acceptable to require 1 specific block replacer. You need to be be able to make and play all sorts of concepts in CO, having conviction as the go-to heal is bad enough and that is fairly theme ambiguous.
    I would rather have uniform abilities and a wider range of visuals than the other way around to be certain but the solution is NOT destroying what works before we introduce new things. First, we need the more options and THEN we need to look at balance. Plenty of my tanks use Force or TK-block by the way so it's not THAT bad.
  • chaelkchaelk Posts: 7,732 Arc User
    you missed Ricochet shot, otherwise known as Everyone attack me.​​
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  • avianosavianos Posts: 6,022 Arc User
    chaelk wrote: »
    you missed Ricochet shot, otherwise known as Everyone attack me.

    You also missed Throwing Blades and the Half-assed emergency fix we got to prevent the exploit related to the power, Making it useless to Tap along with Buggy Half-charged shanenigans​​
    POWERFRAME REVAMPS, NEW POWERS and BUG FIXES > Recycled Content and Events and even costumes at this point Introvert guy who use CO to make his characters playable and get experimental with Viable FF Theme builds! Running out of Unique FF builds due to the lack of updates and synergiesPlaying since 1 February 2011 98+ Characters (7 ATs, 91 FFs) ALTitis for Life!
  • aiqaaiqa Posts: 2,620 Arc User
    glortor said:

    aiqa said:

    glortor said:

    aiqa said:

    gradii said:

    Not really anything wrong with Voracious Darkness or Nimble mind. We should be asking for the other active offenses to be on par with Ego Surge in this regard, and make nimble mind a part of ego surge entirely.

    Voracious darkness is hardly breaking anything when not used on a tank who already is pushing limits on damage resistance.

    When 1 AO greatly outperforms all others, the way forward is not to buff all others. The getting a 100% crit chance for 15 seconds is just completely impossible to balance. Even if other AOs need a buff that needs to be done in a different way.

    And the option of reaching 100% block resistance is way to much for the cost of 1 adv point, and its not nearly on par with with 1 point advantages on other block replacers.
    I agree on Ego Surge being a bit too powerful, but Voracious has just become staple. To change that would make tanks a whole lot weaker in the game and with the direction in which content is going, that is not acceptable.
    It's not acceptable to require 1 specific block replacer. You need to be be able to make and play all sorts of concepts in CO, having conviction as the go-to heal is bad enough and that is fairly theme ambiguous.
    I would rather have uniform abilities and a wider range of visuals than the other way around to be certain but the solution is NOT destroying what works before we introduce new things. First, we need the more options and THEN we need to look at balance. Plenty of my tanks use Force or TK-block by the way so it's not THAT bad.
    I don't think it's reasonable to expect to get more 1 point advantages that do things similar to cutting the damage you take in half.
  • xcelsior41xcelsior41 Posts: 1,056 Arc User
    Or..or, we bring UP underpreforming sets and that's it. No Nerf, no unneeded destruction, no undeserved hatred, just...buffs :) and bliss, of course :P
    Buffing everything to stupid high levels and nerfing everything to piss poor levels yields the same results, but not the same community reactions.

    42 40s, LTSer.
  • glortorglortor Posts: 324 Arc User
    You guys forget that the game has been parsed by three different people. (Selphea, Flowcyto and Kaiserin herself) She knows better than you or I.
  • aiqaaiqa Posts: 2,620 Arc User
    gradii said:

    aiqa said:

    glortor said:

    aiqa said:

    gradii said:

    Not really anything wrong with Voracious Darkness or Nimble mind. We should be asking for the other active offenses to be on par with Ego Surge in this regard, and make nimble mind a part of ego surge entirely.

    Voracious darkness is hardly breaking anything when not used on a tank who already is pushing limits on damage resistance.

    When 1 AO greatly outperforms all others, the way forward is not to buff all others. The getting a 100% crit chance for 15 seconds is just completely impossible to balance. Even if other AOs need a buff that needs to be done in a different way.

    And the option of reaching 100% block resistance is way to much for the cost of 1 adv point, and its not nearly on par with with 1 point advantages on other block replacers.
    I agree on Ego Surge being a bit too powerful, but Voracious has just become staple. To change that would make tanks a whole lot weaker in the game and with the direction in which content is going, that is not acceptable.
    It's not acceptable to require 1 specific block replacer. You need to be be able to make and play all sorts of concepts in CO, having conviction as the go-to heal is bad enough and that is fairly theme ambiguous.
    Who said it's required? out of 70 of my characters only about 3 use it. Conviction is used simply due to lack of theme specific heals.
    Read more, write less. ;)
  • pantagruel01pantagruel01 Posts: 7,091 Arc User
    aiqa said:


    I don't think it's reasonable to expect to get more 1 point advantages that do things similar to cutting the damage you take in half.

    Managing your stacks can get fairly annoying for devouring darkness, you lose quite a lot of dps because of time spent blocking, but block replacers could really use some evening out. Pondering them all:
    • Electric Shield: has -50% to resist vs physical, and the damage it does is pretty well useless.
    • Fire Shield: outside of rimefire builds, clinging flames proc isn't very useful.
    • Force Shield: a useful linger for almost anyone.
    • Ice Shield: chilled proc is slightly more valuable than clinging flames.
    • Wind Barrier: If you've got a bunch of melee-preferring mooks trying to beat on you, very useful. Unfortunately, doesn't do anything to repel-immune or ranged foes.
    • Energy Shield: Laser Knight is amazing, though it hurts your dps. Phalanx not so useful.
    • Parry: Elusive Monk is not as good as Laser Knight on most builds.
    • Fluidity: it means you don't actually block...
    • Telekinetic Shield: the linger is generally less valuable than alternatives.
    • Guard: in theory it's a really strong damage bonus, but it tends to get consumed by irrelevant stuff like DoT tics. Should probably be something like all damage for 3s instead of an on next hit.
    • Stone Shroud: has no special effects at all, though one power synergizes with it.
    • Retaliation: see Guard.
    • Ebon Void: even without devouring darkness, its heal tics make it one of the best block powers.
    • Eldritch Shield: Extra resistance is good, but does nothing else interesting, and the advantage is underwhelming (the radiant one is the best).
  • soulforgersoulforger Posts: 1,649 Arc User

    Or..or, we bring UP underpreforming sets and that's it. No Nerf, no unneeded destruction, no undeserved hatred, just...buffs :) and bliss, of course :P

    The only way I could agree with that is if Cryptic made normal mobs dangerous. As they are, we need to be weaker for them to be dangerous. lol
  • xcelsior41xcelsior41 Posts: 1,056 Arc User

    Or..or, we bring UP underpreforming sets and that's it. No Nerf, no unneeded destruction, no undeserved hatred, just...buffs :) and bliss, of course :P

    The only way I could agree with that is if Cryptic made normal mobs dangerous. As they are, we need to be weaker for them to be dangerous. lol
    True..buff them mobs! :o. I refuse to see another power or powerset(telepathy) become useless crap because of mobs being weak, and others using it as a crutch to make this game WoW.(Not you, soul or really..anyone in this thread(maaaaaaybe a tad bit 'The OP' :).).
    Buffing everything to stupid high levels and nerfing everything to piss poor levels yields the same results, but not the same community reactions.

    42 40s, LTSer.
  • glortorglortor Posts: 324 Arc User

    Or..or, we bring UP underpreforming sets and that's it. No Nerf, no unneeded destruction, no undeserved hatred, just...buffs :) and bliss, of course :P

    The only way I could agree with that is if Cryptic made normal mobs dangerous. As they are, we need to be weaker for them to be dangerous. lol
    True..buff them mobs! :o. I refuse to see another power or powerset(telepathy) become useless crap because of mobs being weak, and others using it as a crutch to make this game WoW.(Not you, soul or really..anyone in this thread(maaaaaaybe a tad bit 'The OP' :).).
    Hell no boy, I'm all against the likes of WoW
  • magpieuk2014magpieuk2014 Posts: 1,268 Arc User
    edited February 2016
    Re: Conviction. This gets used so much because it's a short cooldown MSA proc (and that in itself shows the lack of theme appropriate energy collectors) but also because of the silly cooldown on health boost devices. If it was possible to drop a 500-1000 HP boost from a device with the same rapidity you can use Conviction, then we'd see the power in use less. And the game might be a little more fun for Silver/AT players, too.....
  • glortorglortor Posts: 324 Arc User
    Nothing's wrong with Conviction. I've never survived drawing aggro as a dps with an offensive passive by healing myself with it. If anything it needs its heal increased a bit so that characters without high crit or pre can utilise it better. As a tank you're better off using bionic shield than conviction for instance.
    MSA is subpar now that INT took a hit, too.
  • xcelsior41xcelsior41 Posts: 1,056 Arc User
    glortor said:

    Nothing's wrong with Conviction. I've never survived drawing aggro as a dps with an offensive passive by healing myself with it. If anything it needs its heal increased a bit so that characters without high crit or pre can utilise it better. As a tank you're better off using bionic shield than conviction for instance.
    MSA is subpar now that INT took a hit, too.

    ^
    This.
    Buffing everything to stupid high levels and nerfing everything to piss poor levels yields the same results, but not the same community reactions.

    42 40s, LTSer.
  • chaelkchaelk Posts: 7,732 Arc User
    Lifedrain - high pre more heal, high ego more damage.... my favourite heal :)
    Whirlwind-
    people keep taking hurricane because it does more damage. however, it also scatters the mobs
    Whirlwind with Vortex holds them together and keeps damaging after you stop maintaining but since it does lower damage people don't get it.
    I love following a melee person around alerts when I have whirlwind.The mobs stay together, get annoyed at me and the melee smacks them mightily.​​
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  • glortorglortor Posts: 324 Arc User
    edited February 2016
    Hurricane is fine. You have to commit to it if you want to make it do a lot of damage like aqa suggested. In and of itself it's a high energy cost high damage maintain.

    I also removed my overperforming list because I'll leave that up for the devs as they probably know better.

    My main requests are

    1. Making Archery more viable as a powerset on the whole. It's not a good powerset at the moment.
    2. Making ATs rewarding to play. (This in my opinion can be achieved by giving them the right primary superstat, and possibly con as secondary if possible, as well as allowing them to pick all the powers from their framework.)
    3. Celestial getting looked at. Rebuke needs to get fixed, it's not a blast, doesn't scale well and its stun adv is weak even on a build fully geared towards manipulation, while I'd like to suggest having Crip affect all targets affected by the stun adv. This is done at a cost of five points spent into Rebuke and its damage/healing not being all that great without ranks.
    4. Celestial getting the suggested power in my OP.
    5. Expulse getting the suggested adjustment. (Tap-to-full charge damage-and-knock scaling, a vacuum effect added as a 2pt adv, maintaining challenging strikes so that Celestial Tanks can be a thing.)
    6. TK reimagined so that it can be used just for its combo animation as a damage skill / crip on a defiance tank. The dodge bonus itself would be given by a 2pt adv instead so that the usage of the power is not limited to dodge tanks.
  • avianosavianos Posts: 6,022 Arc User
    glortor wrote: »
    Hurricane is fine. You have to commit to it if you want to make it do a lot of damage like aqa suggested. In and of itself it's a high energy cost high damage maintain.

    And Lag, don't forget the LAG​​
    POWERFRAME REVAMPS, NEW POWERS and BUG FIXES > Recycled Content and Events and even costumes at this point Introvert guy who use CO to make his characters playable and get experimental with Viable FF Theme builds! Running out of Unique FF builds due to the lack of updates and synergiesPlaying since 1 February 2011 98+ Characters (7 ATs, 91 FFs) ALTitis for Life!
  • areyoukiddinmeareyoukiddinme Posts: 13 Arc User
    The fact that everyone uses Conviction, probably more than They used Strafing Run before nerf gives you an idea. I agree a slight nerf to conviction and all the people against it only say it because they have it in their build. I have it on 1 toon and yes, it's incredibly powerful. Should receive a slight nerf.
  • xcelsior41xcelsior41 Posts: 1,056 Arc User

    The fact that everyone uses Conviction, probably more than They used Strafing Run before nerf gives you an idea. I agree a slight nerf to conviction and all the people against it only say it because they have it in their build. I have it on 1 toon and yes, it's incredibly powerful. Should receive a slight nerf.

    Its useless without Pre. Does your build have Pre in it? or are you stacking crits and healing gear for days?.
    Buffing everything to stupid high levels and nerfing everything to piss poor levels yields the same results, but not the same community reactions.

    42 40s, LTSer.
  • glortorglortor Posts: 324 Arc User
    edited February 2016
    If the devs think it needs to be weakened, it will be.
    Those among us who have over 50 characters understand that there are far more pressing concerns in the game than Conviction actually working as a self-heal, unlike msa which plain sucks.

  • avianosavianos Posts: 6,022 Arc User
    edited February 2016
    The fact that everyone uses Conviction, probably more than They used Strafing Run before nerf gives you an idea. I agree a slight nerf to conviction and all the people against it only say it because they have it in their build. I have it on 1 toon and yes, it's incredibly powerful. Should receive a slight nerf.

    Pfffff, No it doesn't, Global Cooldown Reduction took care of it!

    Are you using Presence, bonus healing or Criticals? because the only way to make Conviction useful heal-on-demant in Range and Melee roles! without investing for making the power good, its a costy self heal which heals for leftovers!

    again there are no many Thematic Self Heals in the game, and if they are are they are exlusive for their frameworks (See Reconstructive Ciscuits, dear GOD)
    glortor wrote: »
    If the devs think it needs to be weakened, it will be.
    Those among us who have over 50 characters understand that there are far more pressing concerns in the game than Conviction actually working as a self-heal, unlike msa which plain sucks.

    for the MSA subject, again, wher are the Thematic Energy Unlocks?
    We only got ICE to get it unlock so far

    What about Force? LASER SWORDS!! Dual Blades? Single Blade? Unarmed? Fighting Claws? Earth? Heavy Weapons? Might? Sorcery? (all 4 of them, if we had 4 different Sorcery Energy Unlocks we could get nice variations
    Celestial?

    where are their respective thematic energy unlocks?​​
    Post edited by avianos on
    POWERFRAME REVAMPS, NEW POWERS and BUG FIXES > Recycled Content and Events and even costumes at this point Introvert guy who use CO to make his characters playable and get experimental with Viable FF Theme builds! Running out of Unique FF builds due to the lack of updates and synergiesPlaying since 1 February 2011 98+ Characters (7 ATs, 91 FFs) ALTitis for Life!
  • aiqaaiqa Posts: 2,620 Arc User
    edited February 2016
    glortor said:

    Nothing's wrong with Conviction. I've never survived drawing aggro as a dps with an offensive passive by healing myself with it. If anything it needs its heal increased a bit so that characters without high crit or pre can utilise it better. As a tank you're better off using bionic shield than conviction for instance.
    MSA is subpar now that INT took a hit, too.

    Not surviving boss agro with a squishy build is no way to measure the effectiveness of a power. There is no single power that does that.

    Bionic shielding is really not a better heal for a tank than conviction, not even after the CDR changes.

    I didn't say there is a huge problem with conviction, I said it's bad enough we have a default go-to heal even if that heal is not strongly themed, I don't want a default go-to block and least of all one that has a strong visual theme.

    MSA returns energy at the same rate as other EU's. So nothing underperforming about that.

    Also I don't think Ebon Void is a requirement at all, no single power is a requirement to run endgame content, but it is overperforming compared to other 1 point adv on blocks. The reason it's not a requirement is mostly that the content doesn't require you taking 50% lower damage from any attack.

    About the arguments about keeping up the stacks on Ebon Void. The way I see it, is that when you don't need to block once every 10 seconds, you don't need those stacks. On content when you do need to block every 10 seconds, you get them for free.
    Post edited by aiqa on
  • purin1purin1 Posts: 433 Arc User
    glortor said:

    unlike msa which plain sucks.

    That's pretty laughable. MSA is easily still one of the best energy unlocks in the game.
    I strive to be the strongest swordsman alive.
  • guyhumualguyhumual Posts: 2,387 Arc User

    The fact that everyone uses Conviction, probably more than They used Strafing Run before nerf gives you an idea. I agree a slight nerf to conviction and all the people against it only say it because they have it in their build. I have it on 1 toon and yes, it's incredibly powerful. Should receive a slight nerf.

    It shows that there's not a big selection of self heals, Bountiful Chi Resurgence has a damage penalty, Reconstruction Circuits doesn't play well with other Power sets, and resurgence counts as an active defense and has a massive cool down. The reason Conviction does so well is because there's no offensive penalty and there's next to no cool down. The fact that it activates MSA is icing on the cake. If there was a special disadvantage that made it so it wouldn't activate MSA, Conviction would still be a popular self heal, not as popular as was, but it would still see massive use. You want to stop people from using this power, give us more choices, this is one of a few self heals in the game and one of the few that works well with others.
  • vonqballvonqball Posts: 923 Arc User
    I think self healing in general, and probably conviction in particular, is just too good. When a tank can heal itself effectively and absorb huge amounts of damage, it makes supports somewhat redundant.

    If you look at PvP, it is all centered around burst damage and healing debuffs. Not that I'm suggesting the game be balanced around PvP... but it is a useful example of how players can totally negate sustained damage without paying any significant price.
  • magpieuk2014magpieuk2014 Posts: 1,268 Arc User
    edited February 2016
    vonqball said:

    . When a tank can heal itself effectively and absorb huge amounts of damage, it makes supports somewhat redundant.

    That is quite superheroic, though. It's also why they invented Kryptonite.

    I've always felt that CO gives tanks too many opportunities to be resistant to ALL damage, rather than insisting that they have to maintain and adapt their resistance to specific types of damage (as many games do). The Diablo/Torchlight type game always made you choose how to mod your gear against specific damage types (fire/ice/poison etc) and even with the tankiest tank, you could still make the wrong call and be exposed. Wouldn't be too bad a mechanic to introduce here.
  • vonqballvonqball Posts: 923 Arc User


    That is quite superheroic, though. It's also why they invented Kryptonite.

    Depends on the superhero in question. Sure, Wolverine can heal up from all the small stuff. But, someone like superman tends to duke it out in prolonged battles, where the combatants get worn down by repeated beatings.

  • sagewithbubblessagewithbubbles Posts: 484 Arc User
    The game needs more relatively-theme-neutral self heals. It has needed that since launch. Spec trees were sort of a step in the right direction but they don't work so well for that purpose due to number scaling.
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  • crypticbuxomcrypticbuxom Posts: 4,585 Arc User
    If anything Conviction's advantage needs an incredible buff.​​
  • avianosavianos Posts: 6,022 Arc User
    edited February 2016
    If anything Conviction's advantage needs an incredible buff.

    AGREED! even in my 100% healing/support the Advantage Reverence is Rubbish​​
    POWERFRAME REVAMPS, NEW POWERS and BUG FIXES > Recycled Content and Events and even costumes at this point Introvert guy who use CO to make his characters playable and get experimental with Viable FF Theme builds! Running out of Unique FF builds due to the lack of updates and synergiesPlaying since 1 February 2011 98+ Characters (7 ATs, 91 FFs) ALTitis for Life!
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